francisdesales said:
Mysteryman said:
francisdesales said:
You accuse me of "adding to Scriptures", but what did you just do to Romans 15???
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4
Notice how you DRASTICALLY change the sense of the passage??? What is written is to provide hope! Not your notion that the Bible is just a study book that we don't have to heed...
Paul never says that "everything written is for our learning, not our doing".
We are to continue to obey the Commandments and honor God.
PAUL HIMSELF was WRITING, so is HE commanding that he is just presenting wonderful theoretical knowledge that no one is actually suppposed to do???
This is why conversation with you is so difficult. You just make up stuff as you go because you don't want to admit you are wrong. When backed into a corner, you just stop posting and run away elsewhere to stir up trouble. You have no problems with inventing and adding to Scriptures. :bigfrown
No doubt, you'll again tell me that the Scriptures we have forgot to add that passage that you came up with... This sort of madness must be brought up for others to see, not that I have any notion that any of this will actually take form in your mind as a possible idea of consideration...
As you said, you are not going to change. Thus, my point is just to refute your silly position and allow others to see through your charade...
Hi Joe :
Actually , I didn't change anything. However , what you must realize, is that you again are adding to what the scripture actually does tell us.
WOW!
Does the term "liar" mean anything to you???
Clearly, you did change the citation of Paul from Romans to suit your needs. Not just the words, but the entire sense of what is there! It speaks about hope, not about "we don't have to do anything anymore". No squirming will suffice.
Again, by your fruit, you are known. There is nothing about 'not our doing' in the citation. Plainly, you add it there, and nothing you can say now will change that.
As such, further conversation is useless with you.
When will I learn?
Good going...
Hi Joe:
Yes, I know what the word Liar means. But I see no point in you trying to relate that which I said as a lie !
Maybe we need to play pin the tail on the donkey, and find the true donkey to pin the liar's tail upon.
The church is not asked to "do" a literal circumcison. Yet, we are circumcised , made without hands. Its spiritual ! We do not "do" anything ! We do not go about literally circumcising anyone physically.
The church is not asked to do a literal passover meal. Jesus Christ already fulfilled that part of the law by sitting down with his disciples and eating a passover meal. It is called the Lord's Supper.
Romans 15:4 specifically states, that whatsoever is written aforetime is for our -- "Learning" < This means that it is educational. Learning does not indicate an action upon our part to achieve or produce something as a part of the learning process.
We do not have to circumcise anyone in order to understand what circumcision was all about. Nor do we need to profess an understanding of the passover meal, by having and participating in a passover meal, so that we can understand. This is simply not necessary !
Spirituality is not about doing the OT law ! Walking in the Spirit is a walking in the awareness of the understanding. I know what the broken bread represented, and I know what the empty cup represented. Now, we are made to drink into the Spirit, not drink spirits (wine).
This is why in I Corinth. 11:27 and 28 and 29 the words -- eat -----drink ---- are not literal, they are used here figuratively. In verse 29 it states, "not discerning the Lord's body" < This is talking about the body of Christ, not some piece of bread that you put into your mouth ! This is dealing with spirituality ! Not something you can taste, feel and eat literally. The Lord's body are the many members. We are to discern the Lord's body, which means to care for them , both in spiritual things and carnal things.
If you would read the full context of chapter 15 of Romans, you will notice that this is where Paul mentions whatsoever is written aforetime in verse 4. But by reading the full context, we find out how Paul expresses the understanding here. The comfort of the scriptures that we might have hope. How does Paul express outwardly these words ? Simple : Just read the context !
1. Be likeminded one toward another, according to Christ Jesus ( The Revealed Mystery)
2.Be of one mind and one mouth glorify God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
3. Receive ye one another , as Christ also received us to the glory of God
4. Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God , to confirm the promises made
5. That the gentiles might glorify God for his mercy as it is written. For this cause I will confesss to thee among the gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
Paul goes on by his example here in Romans chapter 15, that which he spoke about in I Corinth. chapters 10 and 11 and 12. Paul says specifically in verses 26 and 27 to care for the church, but in verse 27 Paul makes this comment - "For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things "
What spiritual things is Paul speaking of ?
Well, circumcison is one . But Paul has explained, that we are circumcised, made with the circumcision made without hands.
Gentiles had nothing to do with the Law of Moses, and God , nor did Paul ever put them under any bondage of the law. Paul wanted them to "learn" the ways that were under the Law. But he never wanted them
to do any part of the law. ( Read the book of Galatians ! )
Sacrifices for sins was another one. But again Paul would never put the Gentiles back under the law of bondage. Paul explained to the Gentiles , that Jesus Christ was our passover lamb, the sacrificial lamb for our sins. So Gentiles no longer have to do as the Jews did. They walk by faith, not by a literal sacrifice for sins. There are no physical actions required of the Gentiles ! They were to walk by faith, not by some man made ceremony, drumed up from some orthodox group from the second or thrid century. Which became a tradition of men, and this tradition continues on today in the 21st century.
All you are suggesting Joe, is that you want to keep your man made traditions alive, and thriving.
IN Christ - MM
