Bogus Christians ?

[twinc]

Jesus said that bogus Christians were those that did not believe or accept what Moses wrote [Jn.5:47] - so guess what Moses wrote that is unacceptable to many so called Christians and others - twinc

 

[Gary]

Moses prophesied the Messiah.

 

[follower]

Yeshua said if you don't listen to Moses, you won't listen to Yhvh or to the Son of Man (Messiah Yeshua).
He spoke this to the religious leaders who said they were sons of Abraham.
In 2000 plus years, His Word Has Not Changed.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I assume you refer to the OT laws. We've had lots of discussions on this in the past, really. This can get to be a heated topic and I don't like heated topics, so I'd prefer to avoid debate, but if I may I would like to briefly add my two cents.

The OT laws are not unacceptable, simply outdated. (The sanitation laws are the most demonstrably obvious example of this.) They were the national laws for ancient Israel (national laws change over time due to circumstance and need), and they were based on the 10 commandments, which I think could be described as the spirit of the law. Obviously the 10 commandments still apply.


That aside, here's the context of John 5:47:
Verse 46: "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for uhe wrote of me."
Based on this it doesn't appear to me that Jesus was referring to the law of Moses. Rather it seems to refer moreso to what Moses wrote that foreshadows Jesus.

 

[follower]

the peoples who observe the pertinent sanitation and other of Moses instructions and laws of the Scripture have avoided the plagues that now sweep across the untied states. if that's 'outdated' then i'm all for it !

remember when newborn babies mortality was 30 or more per 100, give or take some ?

yet the midwives, who observed the Scriptural instructions, lost only 1 in 100.

the (male, btw) doctors hated them so much, because the male doctors were greedy for the money to be made delivering babies,
that they used all their power and influence to get the midwives out of business,
including the infamous 'witch hunts' in massachusetts !

 

[follower]

Jesus said that bogus Christians were those that did not believe or accept what Moses wrote [Jn.5:47] - so guess what Moses wrote that is unacceptable to many so called Christians and others - twinc

hahaha --- i forgot this was the OP --- but it is so pertinent ! it is the bogus Christians who tried to make Moses 'out of date', and tried to convince everyone to ignore the O.T.

but without reading the O.T., the N.T. is very little understood .... all of Scripture is the Word of Yhvh the Creator, and Yeshua is vitally present all through the O.T. (as preached by the apostles and prophets and disciples in the N.T.! ) as well as in the N.T.

 

[Gary]

That aside, here's the context of John 5:47:
Verse 46: "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."
Based on this it doesn't appear to me that Jesus was referring to the law of Moses. Rather it seems to refer moreso to what Moses wrote that foreshadows Jesus.

That's what I think it is too.

 

[follower]

"Jesus Honors the Requirements of the Law of Moses (8:4) - The ...
The IVP New Testament Commentary Series – Jesus Honors the Requirements of the Law of Moses (8:4)"

(search when there's time for law moses in the N.T.)

 

[twinc]

"Jesus Honors the Requirements of the Law of Moses (8:4) - The ...
The IVP New Testament Commentary Series – Jesus Honors the Requirements of the Law of Moses (8:4)"

(search when there's time for law moses in the N.T.)

so lets see what Moses wrote that is unacceptable to many many Christians and others viz a global flood and also instant creation out of nothing in each of 6 x24hr days, complete and very good creation = no evolution necessary or possible etc - twinc

 

[follower]

really ? the believers immersed in Yeshua's Name and abiding constantly in Him and His Word have no trouble at all believing Moses. out in the world of course is an altogether different story, yes indeed...

 

[JLB]

hahaha --- i forgot this was the OP --- but it is so pertinent ! it is the bogus Christians who tried to make Moses 'out of date', and tried to convince everyone to ignore the O.T.

but without reading the O.T., the N.T. is very little understood .... all of Scripture is the Word of Yhvh the Creator, and Yeshua is vitally present all through the O.T. (as preached by the apostles and prophets and disciples in the N.T.! ) as well as in the N.T.

Just make sure you continue in doing all the Law of Moses.

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."


If you fail to keep one single law, that is written in the law of Moses, then you are cursed.


Here are the words of Jesus to the cursed -

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Have fun with doing all the law of Moses.


JLB

 

[follower]

edited reba you can read it, but you haven't translated it. IF YOU TRUST the law of Moses to save you, then you have to keep it all in order to be saved.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's, what you call, the bogus Christian that thinks we need to live by the law as through the keeping of all Gods 613 commandments that some say we are saved by the law. There are no saving provisions within the law as it is by grace that we are saved and nothing of what we can do of self lest we boast, Ephesians 2:8. Paul in Galatians 2:19 did not say the law was dead; he said he was dead to the law. In other words the law had no authority over him because he was under grace and law and grace cannot mix, Galatians 2:21. The law is not dead as some teach. You can live under the Law if you choose, but Galatians 3:10-13 states the law is very much alive, so alive that it carries a curse with it if violated trying to live by it.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[twinc]

It's, what you call, the bogus Christian that thinks we need to live by the law as through the keeping of all Gods 613 commandments that some say we are saved by the law. There are no saving provisions within the law as it is by grace that we are saved and nothing of what we can do of self lest we boast, Ephesians 2:8. Paul in Galatians 2:19 did not say the law was dead; he said he was dead to the law. In other words the law had no authority over him because he was under grace and law and grace cannot mix, Galatians 2:21. The law is not dead as some teach. You can live under the Law if you choose, but Galatians 3:10-13 states the law is very much alive, so alive that it carries a curse with it if violated trying to live by it.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[twinc]

you are nearly right - to be even more so see www.thewayofthemaster.com - then scroll down and click on 'Hell's best kept secret' - twinc

 

[twinc]

That's what I think it is too.

Moses did not write that the first Adam or the second Adam evolved from monkeys but were created in the image and likeness of God - what he did write was that there was a global flood and that everything was created out of nothing complete and very good in an instant on each of 6 x 24hr days = no evolution necessary or possible = how many Christians do you know who accept and believe this as he wrote it - twinc

 

[Eugene]

The law engraven in tables of stone remains as pertinent today as it ever was! Anyone breaking any one of them even once is going to hell. Why was it given, and what is its purpose? There will not be one liar in heaven (Rev 21:27), and 1 Jn 1:10 tells us - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we try to deceive huh? 1 Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Oh my, what to do?

 

[Gary]

Moses did not write that the first Adam or the second Adam evolved from monkeys but were created in the image and likeness of God - what he did write was that there was a global flood and that everything was created out of nothing complete and very good in an instant on each of 6 x 24hr days = no evolution necessary or possible = how many Christians do you know who accept and believe this as he wrote it - twinc

Evolution? Jesus was referencing evolution when He said this?

John 5
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?......King James Version (KJV) by Public Domain


I always thought it was this.


John 5
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.......King James Version (KJV) by Public Domain
.

 

[follower]

Yeshua never spoke about evolution. the enemy made it up for nefarious purposes(to kill, steal and destroy). the nazis, gestapo, russians, facists, (communists), may have used it to take away peoples thoughts or their own (potential) value. people who think they came from primordial ooze may be easy to mislead to kill other ooze.

 

[Willie T]

The law engraven in tables of stone remains as pertinent today as it ever was! Anyone breaking any one of them even once is going to hell. Why was it given, and what is its purpose? There will not be one liar in heaven (Rev 21:27), and 1 Jn 1:10 tells us - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we try to deceive huh? 1 Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Oh my, what to do?

Do you really believe that? That the law's purpose was that everyone would keep it impeccably?