But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal

[guysmith]

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This verse provides us with a lot of useful information in which a very important conclusion can be drawn. That conclusion is that most, if not all, orthodox mainstream interpretations of Bible prophecy are in error.

Basically, this verse is telling us that Bible prophecy would not be understood until the end times, period. One could conclude that any interpretation disclosed previous to the end times has to be in error (If that interpretation was correct in the past, then it would have been the end times at that time in the past). For example: In the 1800Â’s, there was a SDA movement which promoted an interpretation of Bible prophecy that the end times where to take place in the 1800Â’s. Obviously, those were not the end times, so that interpretation was wrong then, so one can conclude that (based on Daniel 12:4) and it is still wrong today.

Another example is the interpretation that Bible prophecy was fulfilled back in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Again, one need only ask if those were the end times and it becomes obvious that this interpretation has also got to be in error.

Most denominations have their doctrinated interpretation of Bible prophecy. And these interpretations have been with us long before that period we recognize as the end times.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Matthew24:34]

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This verse provides us with a lot of useful information in which a very important conclusion can be drawn. That conclusion is that most, if not all, orthodox mainstream interpretations of Bible prophecy are in error.

Basically, this verse is telling us that Bible prophecy would not be understood until the end times, period. One could conclude that any interpretation disclosed previous to the end times has to be in error (If that interpretation was correct in the past, then it would have been the end times at that time in the past). For example: In the 1800Â’s, there was a SDA movement which promoted an interpretation of Bible prophecy that the end times where to take place in the 1800Â’s. Obviously, those were not the end times, so that interpretation was wrong then, so one can conclude that (based on Daniel 12:4) and it is still wrong today.

Another example is the interpretation that Bible prophecy was fulfilled back in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Again, one need only ask if those were the end times and it becomes obvious that this interpretation has also got to be in error.

Most denominations have their doctrinated interpretation of Bible prophecy. And these interpretations have been with us long before that period we recognize as the end times.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Greetings, Guy Smith: You simply state that something is in error, yet you do not elaborate. Have you noticed that Daniel was told TO seal up the words of the prophecy because the time was far off (Dan. 8), BUT John was told to NOT seal up the prophecy because the time was NEAR (Rev. 22:10)!

Matthew24:34

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Has anyone noticed that both Daniel and Revelation is about the time of the end?
Has anyone noticed they speak of the same events?
Has anyone noticed the time of the end wasnt thousands of years ago?
Yes those who say the time of the end was thousands of years ago are in error.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Matthew 24:34,

You stated: You simply state that something is in error, yet you do not elaborate.

My response: I thought I had.

You stated: Have you noticed that Daniel was told TO seal up the words of the prophecy because the time was far off (Dan. 8), BUT John was told to NOT seal up the prophecy because the time was NEAR (Rev. 22:10)!

My response: Yes, so.............. what is your point?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[friend]

God allowed some books to stay open and some to remain closed.
In Revelation John is being shown more than one apocalyptic event.
Jesus told John not to seal that book.

In Chapter 22, Jesus speaking to John and was told the message
of Jesus concerning his coming. The majority of the book is in
signs and metaphors and written in ways that the majority of
it has not been understood for Christ had it written that way purposely.

Daniel 7-12 goes with Revelation and Daniel 7 was written in to expound on Revelation 13
in greater depth. Jesus has opened our eyes now that we may read
of these things for we are in the Last Days .


Those who have written and taught the prophecy in ignorance, saying this or that and it is not correct have Jesus to face. This is very scary. What will Jesus do to those who hear and add to it? They will face him at his coming. Jesus is coming and the message from God directly out of heaven to me in verbal words: "The tribulation will come through the seed of Ishmael, they are camped around us now."

As we go into this birth canal that brings delivery of God's children, pray and trust the Lord all the way through it. WE ARE GOING TO SEE OUR SALVATION. Amen. :yes

Jesus does not take lightly anyone changing what he has written.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Has anyone noticed that both Daniel and Revelation is about the time of the end?
Has anyone noticed they speak of the same events?
Has anyone noticed the time of the end wasnt thousands of years ago?
Yes those who say the time of the end was thousands of years ago are in error.

Again, statements without support.

Peter wrote the following--"The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). What did he mean, Shilohsfoal? Jesus said the end would come in THAT generation (Matthew 24:14). Jesus was going to be with those of His generation "even until the end of the AGE (not "world"--aion not kosmos)--that age in which they were living--that age which was already growing old, becoming obsolete, and ready to pass away (Heb. 8).

Yes, Daniel and Revelation speak of the same events. Daniel's Seventy Weeks speaks of the time of Christ and His soon return--that was the time that was far off and not something that is still in our future. That which was far off to Daniel was at hand to John! James wrote: "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND" (James 5:8). John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near! Both Daniel and Revelation speak of the events of that first-century world!

Matthew24:34

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Has anyone noticed that both Daniel and Revelation is about the time of the end?
Has anyone noticed they speak of the same events?
Has anyone noticed the time of the end wasnt thousands of years ago?
Yes those who say the time of the end was thousands of years ago are in error.

Again, statements without support.

Peter wrote the following--"The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). What did he mean, Shilohsfoal? Jesus said the end would come in THAT generation (Matthew 24:14). Jesus was going to be with those of His generation "even until the end of the AGE (not "world"--aion not kosmos)--that age in which they were living--that age which was already growing old, becoming obsolete, and ready to pass away (Heb. 8).

Yes, Daniel and Revelation speak of the same events. Daniel's Seventy Weeks speaks of the time of Christ and His soon return--that was the time that was far off and not something that is still in our future. That which was far off to Daniel was at hand to John! James wrote: "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND" (James 5:8). John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near! Both Daniel and Revelation speak of the events of that first-century world!

Matthew24:34

All things didnt come to an end now did it.
A freaking building was destroyed and you think it was the end of the world.I got news for you Mathew,The seed of David had come to build the temple not destroy it.But if you understood what the temple is or who the seed of David is then you wouldnt stumble at understanding prophecy so badly.
You are like those who said it took 46 years to build that temple .Ofcoarse you are taught by Josephus so that explains alot.

Ps
You continually say the abomination of desolation was set up by the king of the north in 70 ad but you fail to understand what it even is.You should have found a better teacher than the unbeliever named Josephus.Try reading the book of Revelation and find it.
The beast recieved a deadly wound in 70 ad and you claim it died but it didnt die.It is even today.
The proof that it remains today can be seen by anyone who asks to see.

 

[Sinthesis]

All things didnt come to an end now did it.
A freaking building was destroyed and you think it was the end of the world.I got news for you Mathew,The seed of David had come to build the temple not destroy it.But if you understood what the temple is or who the seed of David is then you wouldnt stumble at understanding prophecy so badly.
You are like those who said it took 46 years to build that temple .Ofcoarse you are taught by Josephus so that explains alot.

You should reexamine the parable found in these verses;
Mat 21:33-45
Mar 12:1-12
Luk 20:9-19

 

[MMarc]

When Peter spoke of the last days and quoted Joel, he was speaking of the end times in Judea, the time of the Jews....

It foreshadowed the end times of the gentiles...

Often the Word of God is not one thing OR another it often is one thing AND another...

 

[Shilohsfoal]

All things didnt come to an end now did it.
A freaking building was destroyed and you think it was the end of the world.I got news for you Mathew,The seed of David had come to build the temple not destroy it.But if you understood what the temple is or who the seed of David is then you wouldnt stumble at understanding prophecy so badly.
You are like those who said it took 46 years to build that temple .Ofcoarse you are taught by Josephus so that explains alot.

You should reexamine the parable found in these verses;
Mat 21:33-45
Mar 12:1-12
Luk 20:9-19

Why need I reexamine them?
mat 21;42
Jesus saith unto them,Did ye never read in the scriptures,the stone which the builders rejected,the same is become the head of the corner;this is the Lords doing,and it is marvelous in our eyes?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

When Peter spoke of the last days and quoted Joel, he was speaking of the end times in Judea, the time of the Jews....

It foreshadowed the end times of the gentiles...

Often the Word of God is not one thing OR another it often is one thing AND another...

The jews are in Judea.
Or at least they say they are.


The beast got a wounded head but it didnt die.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Has anyone noticed that both Daniel and Revelation is about the time of the end?
Has anyone noticed they speak of the same events?
Has anyone noticed the time of the end wasnt thousands of years ago?
Yes those who say the time of the end was thousands of years ago are in error.

Again, Shilohsfoal, you simply state that something is in error without proving why!

Matthew24:34

 

[Matthew24:34]

Hello Matthew 24:34,

You stated: You simply state that something is in error, yet you do not elaborate.

My response: I thought I had.

You stated: Have you noticed that Daniel was told TO seal up the words of the prophecy because the time was far off (Dan. 8), BUT John was told to NOT seal up the prophecy because the time was NEAR (Rev. 22:10)!

My response: Yes, so.............. what is your point?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

My point? Wasn't it clear? Daniel was given a vision of things that were to happen far in his future. That is why he was told to seal up the words of the prophecy--the time for fulfillment was far off (Dan. 8). John, however, was given a vision of things which were to happen soon in his time. That is why he was told to NOT seal up the words of the prophecy--the time for fulfillment was NEAR (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)! I don't know how much clearer I can state it!

Matthew24:34

 

[Matthew24:34]

God allowed some books to stay open and some to remain closed.
In Revelation John is being shown more than one apocalyptic event.
Jesus told John not to seal that book.

In Chapter 22, Jesus speaking to John and was told the message
of Jesus concerning his coming. The majority of the book is in
signs and metaphors and written in ways that the majority of
it has not been understood for Christ had it written that way purposely.

Daniel 7-12 goes with Revelation and Daniel 7 was written in to expound on Revelation 13
in greater depth. Jesus has opened our eyes now that we may read
of these things for we are in the Last Days .


Those who have written and taught the prophecy in ignorance, saying this or that and it is not correct have Jesus to face. This is very scary. What will Jesus do to those who hear and add to it? They will face him at his coming. Jesus is coming and the message from God directly out of heaven to me in verbal words: "The tribulation will come through the seed of Ishmael, they are camped around us now."

As we go into this birth canal that brings delivery of God's children, pray and trust the Lord all the way through it. WE ARE GOING TO SEE OUR SALVATION. Amen. :yes

Jesus does not take lightly anyone changing what he has written.

friend: Jesus does NOT take lightly the changing of His words. That is why you need to be careful. Jesus did not tell US that our salvation is near--He told His first-century disciples to lift up THEIR heads and look up for THEIR redemption drew NEAR (Luke 21)!

It always amazes me on these boards how people point their fingers at others and accuse others of the very things for which they themselves are guilty! Jesus said "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place" (Mat. 24:34), yet dispensationalists, in spite of the fact that Jesus ALWAYS used that expression to describe His contemporaries, corrupt His words and change His clear meaning. They corrupt His meaning of the fig tree and explain with bold confidence that Jesus was speaking of the restoration of Israel in 1948! Is that what He said? Did He not tell those disciples standing right there with Him that THEY were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree and ALL the trees (Luke 21)! Is that not plainly what He said? Who is changing Jesus' words?

Jesus said to His disciples standing right there with Him--"There are some standing HERE who will not taste death till THEY see the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom" (Mat.16:28). Yet futurists, who like to make a big deal about rightly dividing the word of truth and not corrupting Jesus' words as those horrible preterists supposedly do, proceed to mutilate Jesus' clear meaning here. Some of those very disciples standing right there with Jesus were to see His coming! And they did! Who is corrupting Jesus' words?

Jesus said to His disciples standing right there with Him--YOU will not finish going through all the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes" (Mat. 10:23). Yet, again, dispensationalists, who love their doctrines more than the Word of God, refuse to accept Jesus' plain words. Who is corrupting Jesus' words?

Jesus said to that very flesh-and-blood Caiaphas of His day and to the Sanhedrin--"YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN" (Mat. 26:64). Who was to see His coming? That very Caiaphas and that very Sanhedrin standing right there before Him. Do the dispensationalists take this as literally as they do "Every eye shall see Him?" No, of course not. Taking Revelation 1:7 (which they take out of context) literally and constantly throwing it in the face of preterists is their favorite sport. However, when verses which are just as clear but which contradict what they want to believe, are given to them, they refuse to take them literally! Who is corrupting Jesus' words?

Futurists, especially dispensationalists, shout with confidence that "Jesus is coming SOON." We are all supposed to be ready. Yet when James, the half-brother of Jesus and an inspired apostle wrote: "The coming of the Lord is AT HAND," these same people who use time in its normal, everyday, common usage to warn everyone today that Jesus' return is AT HAND, can't understand its meaning when it is used in the NT! Jesus said, "Behold, I am coming SOON!" He said that in John's day! Are we to understand two different meanings of this simple word? Who is corrupting Jesus' words?

Yes, those who corrupt His words will be held accountable. Yes, Jesus does not take lightly the changing of His words. We must ALL be very caution to rightly divide the word of truth! But before we point our fingers at our brothers and sisters in Christ, perhaps we should examine ourselves and make sure that we ourselves are not guilty of that of which we accuse others!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[Sinthesis]

All things didnt come to an end now did it.
A freaking building was destroyed and you think it was the end of the world.I got news for you Mathew,The seed of David had come to build the temple not destroy it.But if you understood what the temple is or who the seed of David is then you wouldnt stumble at understanding prophecy so badly.
You are like those who said it took 46 years to build that temple .Ofcoarse you are taught by Josephus so that explains alot.

You should reexamine the parable found in these verses;
Mat 21:33-45
Mar 12:1-12
Luk 20:9-19

Why need I reexamine them?
mat 21;42
Jesus saith unto them,Did ye never read in the scriptures,the stone which the builders rejected,the same is become the head of the corner;this is the Lords doing,and it is marvelous in our eyes?

Because if you understood that parable you would see that God WAS coming to destroy the cultural and religious identity of the Jewish people, which at that time was symbolized by a building that embodied the corrupt temple system. For the Jewish temple system it was the apocalypse. The promise of God was taken from them and given to the Christians.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Has anyone noticed that both Daniel and Revelation is about the time of the end?
Has anyone noticed they speak of the same events?
Has anyone noticed the time of the end wasnt thousands of years ago?
Yes those who say the time of the end was thousands of years ago are in error.

Again, statements without support.

Peter wrote the following--"The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). What did he mean, Shilohsfoal? Jesus said the end would come in THAT generation (Matthew 24:14). Jesus was going to be with those of His generation "even until the end of the AGE (not "world"--aion not kosmos)--that age in which they were living--that age which was already growing old, becoming obsolete, and ready to pass away (Heb. 8).

Yes, Daniel and Revelation speak of the same events. Daniel's Seventy Weeks speaks of the time of Christ and His soon return--that was the time that was far off and not something that is still in our future. That which was far off to Daniel was at hand to John! James wrote: "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND" (James 5:8). John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near! Both Daniel and Revelation speak of the events of that first-century world!

Matthew24:34

All things didnt come to an end now did it.
A freaking building was destroyed and you think it was the end of the world.I got news for you Mathew,The seed of David had come to build the temple not destroy it.But if you understood what the temple is or who the seed of David is then you wouldnt stumble at understanding prophecy so badly.
You are like those who said it took 46 years to build that temple .Ofcoarse you are taught by Josephus so that explains alot.

Ps
You continually say the abomination of desolation was set up by the king of the north in 70 ad but you fail to understand what it even is.You should have found a better teacher than the unbeliever named Josephus.Try reading the book of Revelation and find it.
The beast recieved a deadly wound in 70 ad and you claim it died but it didnt die.It is even today.
The proof that it remains today can be seen by anyone who asks to see.

Shilohsfoal: I should try reading the book of Revelation? I read the book within its plainly declared time frame--those things which were shown to John which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near! That's what the book says. It is the words of the Bible that authenticate the words of Josephus and not the other way around. I agree with Josephus ONLY when he agrees with the Bible! When did I say that the "abomination of desolation" was set up by the "king of the north in A. D. 70?"

(Please refrain from the use of objectionable adjectives--thank you)! A. D. 70 was much, much, much more than the destruction of a mere building, Shilohsfoal. Why can't you see that? It is not I who does not understand the meaning of the Temple and the meaning of the seed of David. Jesus clearly stated that that Temple--Herod's Temple--would be destroyed and that not one stone would remain upon another (Mat. 23). It would happen in THAT generation to THAT group of Jews whom Jesus Himself declared guilty of "all the righteous blood shed on the earth" Mat. 23). The true meaning of the Temple is found in that which replaced the OT type and shadow. The Temple Jesus came to build was the Church. WE are His temple--reflections of the heavenly temple into which Jesus entered and sprinkled His blood once and for all! There is no need for a rebuilt Temple--unless, of course, one is a dispensationalist and must have one in order to uphold his wrong doctrine of last things!

What did Jesus clearly mean, Shilohsfoal, when He stood right there with those first-century disciples who had just questioned Him and said "When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Mat. 24:15). Can you step away from your preconceived ideas and simply look at this one verse and exegete for me? Just that one verse, Shilohsfoal. To whom was Jesus speaking? Who was to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? Who, Shilohsfoal? What does it say?

Matthew24:34

 

[Shilohsfoal]

"Matthew24:34
Shilohsfoal. To whom was Jesus speaking? Who was to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? Who, Shilohsfoal? What does it say?

Matthew24:34

Your asking me who is to see the abomination of desolation.
The answer is those who have eyes that see.
My bet is you wont.

Ps
The book of Daniel says those who do wickedly against the covenant shall the king of the north corrupt by flatteries while those who understand are killed.Only the wise understand and the unbeliever Joesephus is far from wise.If he were then he would have been a believer in Christ and the covenant.Insted those who did wickedly in 70 ad were killed.Your thoughts are bass ackwards.

Josephus himself said the abominatiuon of desolation was set up long before Jesus spoke to his disciples about the abomination of desolation.That alone should tell you something.

 

[Matthew24:34]

"Matthew24:34
Shilohsfoal. To whom was Jesus speaking? Who was to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? Who, Shilohsfoal? What does it say?

Matthew24:34

Your asking me who is to see the abomination of desolation.
The answer is those who have eyes that see.
My bet is you wont.

Ps
The book of Daniel says those who do wickedly against the covenant shall the king of the north corrupt by flatteries while those who understand are killed.Only the wise understand and the unbeliever Joesephus is far from wise.If he were then he would have been a believer in Christ and the covenant.Insted those who did wickedly in 70 ad were killed.Your thoughts are bass ackwards.

Josephus himself said the abominatiuon of desolation was set up long before Jesus spoke to his disciples about the abomination of desolation.That alone should tell you something.

Could you please tell me where Josephus said that. I have his works--I would like to look that up!

Again, I do not believe Josephus OVER the Scriptures. I use Josephus only insofar as his words support the Scriptures! He was not inspired but neither were the multitude of historians whom we read and believe! Do you believe the very words of our Lord?

Matthew 24:15--Jesus said directly to His disciples standing right there with Him--"When YOU see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET . . . ."

What don't you understand about that? What, Shilohsfoal?

Matthew24:34