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But what does it say

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So I'd like someone to make this eternal security friendly. Do not use any other scripture but simply show me how this is es friendly....

Lukes faithful servant.....

Whose a good and faithful servant?

One who when Jesus comes to gather his flock he will be found watching and doing Gods will.... and they will be rewarded

But if that Same believer doubts Jesus return and falls away back into his sinful life of drinking and beating

Jesus then shows and catches this man in his fallen away state and he shall cut him to pieces

And Now... wasnt before but now he is appointed with the unbelievers...

I will stop right there... are the following statements true?

1. The servant who is rewared is a saved believer going to heaven
2. The rewarded servant and the servant who fall away are the same servant
3. The servant if caught in a fallen away state will be with the unbelievers
4. Believers can end up in 2 different places

If these are true then a believer can lose his salvation.... osas cant be both true and false, one side or the other will have scripture that only works one way and this in one of those....

So show me how youd Teach the verses above as ES..... using only that above
 
So I'd like someone to make this eternal security friendly. Do not use any other scripture but simply show me how this is es friendly....
Can I answer even if not ES friendly? I’m otherwise friendly.
Lukes faithful servant.....

Whose a good and faithful servant?

One who when Jesus comes to gather his flock he will be found watching and doing Gods will.... and they will be rewarded

But if that Same believer doubts Jesus return and falls away back into his sinful life of drinking and beating

Jesus then shows and catches this man in his fallen away state and he shall cut him to pieces

And Now... wasnt before but now he is appointed with the unbelievers...

I will stop right there... are the following statements true?

1. The servant who is rewared is a saved believer going to heaven
Being saved is not enough for rewards. Being isn’t rewarded. Doing is rewarded. Luke 19
2. The rewarded servant and the servant who fall away are the same servant
No, clearly not. Why do you think this is the case?
3. The servant if caught in a fallen away state will be with the unbelievers
No, I don’t see where this is the case. Do you have a scripture for this? Scripture doesn’t address and correct all wrong thinking so there isn’t one saying this is wrong. You’ll need one to say it’s right.
4. Believers can end up in 2 different places
The laws of physics negate this. We cannot be in Heaven and in outer darkness at the same time. We cannot occupy two different and mutually exclusive physical spaces places at the same time.
If these are true then a believer can lose his salvation....
This I believe but based on entirely different thinking and scripture.
osas cant be both true and false, one side or the other will have scripture that only works one way and this in one of those....
That is true but I see different scriptures addressing this.

So show me how youd Teach the verses above as ES..... using only that above
I’m interested in this question too. Always good to understand how the opposition thinks.
 
The rewarded servant and the servant who fall away are the same servant
Dorothy said: No, clearly not. Why do you think this is the case......

Scripture says: because it says that clearly... in verse 45 to whom do you think this is about - But if that servant (from verse 43) says in his heart..

Its the same servant.....
 
. Believers can end up in 2 different places
The laws of physics negate this. We cannot be in Heaven and in outer darkness at the same time.


Obviously you do not understand I never said a believer ends up in 2 different places...Since it shows the same believer if he stays the course he is rewared and if he doesnt his isnt and therefore a believer can end up at one of two places.

If you can't see the servamt is the same theres really not much else to say....
 
Lukes faithful servant.....

Whose a good and faithful servant?

One who when Jesus comes to gather his flock he will be found watching and doing Gods will.... and they will be rewarded

But if that Same believer doubts Jesus return and falls away back into his sinful life of drinking and beating

Jesus then shows and catches this man in his fallen away state and he shall cut him to pieces

And Now... wasnt before but now he is appointed with the unbelievers...

I will stop right there... are the following statements true?

1. The servant who is rewared is a saved believer going to heaven
Click to expand...
Being saved is not enough for rewards. Being isn’t rewarded. Doing is rewarded



You should understand thats 100% what this is about.... the one rewarded is the doer and if he decides to do nothing and go back to his old life he doesnt get rewarded..... one more thing.... Jesus who is the master only rewards a saved elect believer so yes the rewarded servant is a saved believer.... christ doesnt reward unbelievers.....
 
Dorothy said: No, clearly not. Why do you think this is the case......
Because one cannot be simultaneously rewarded by God and fallen away at the same point in time. One can be one of these and become the other, but only after considerable time and choices have elapsed.
Scripture says: because it says that clearly... in verse 45 to whom do you think this is about - But if that servant (from verse 43) says in his heart..

Its the same servant.....
Ah, excellent question and thought. We see a change over time. Perhaps the servant wearied in well doing. Perhaps he thought he could oppress his fellow servants just for a time and then later repent.

Excellent post!!!
 
CROWNS/REWARDS - Greek: (misthos) pay for service, good or bad have power, to separate from others, worthy

We are called of God to be partakers in Christ sharing in his ministry here on earth if we heed his calling. Our service is unto the Lord for the purpose that brings glory and honor to his name when a lost soul comes back to Gods grace. This is not done without rewards as our rewards are Spiritual laid up in heaven until we come to be with the Lord forever, but there are also rewards for those that are not of God, but of a Pharisee spirit and their reward will be eternal separation from God and their reward of damnation when Jesus returns and separates the wheat from the tares or the sheep from the goats.

There are five crowns (not literal crowns) we can obtain here on earth for the accomplishments of service we do unto the Lord. When our race here on earth is done and our time is over we will have the privilege of laying these crowns down before the feet of Jesus to honor him and to hear those words of grace that says “well done thou good and faithful servant”.
(Hebrews 12:1; 1Corinthians 9:24; Matthew 25:21)

Below are our rewards stored up in heaven:

1. CROWN OF LIFE
Martyr's crown is the crown of life given to those who have endured all temptations, trials and tribulations here on earth and have never taken no thought of their own lives, but remained steadfast in the word of God living their lives in total surrender to Jesus.
(James 1:12; Rev 2:10)

2. CROWN OF GLORY
Elder or Pastor Crown is given to those who hold the office of leadership over the members that make up the body of Christ. It is their leadership through the Holy Spirit that helps to teach us about God through his word. Theirs is the greatest judgment for what proceeds out of their mouth.
(1Peter 5:1-5)

3. CROWN OF REJOICING
A crown of rejoicing is a soul winner’s crown. When we accept Gods commission to take his word out into the world through the power of the Holy Spirit working through us we all rejoice when one lost soul comes back to Gods grace. It’s like the story of the Shepard that had a flock of sheep and one of them strayed away. Even though he loved all his flock he rejoiced more for the lost one he found as now his whole flock was again all together. Imagine the rejoicing if all Gods lost children were found and brought back to Gods grace. What a day of rejoicing that would be. We rejoice in the goodness of God for all the blessings he pours out on us as he is faithful with his promises.
(1Thessalonians 2:1920; Philippians 4:1; Matthew 28:18-20;18:11-13)

4. CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
A crown for those who love his appearing and will be given in that day to the Lord as a bride to a groom. We will see God in all his glory and his righteousness which is our strength when Jesus returns in the clouds to catch us up to meet him in the air and to be with the Lord forever. Gods’ righteousness is perfect in all his judgment on his people. With Gods righteousness we are perfected as we go through the refiner’s fire to be made pure and holy before his throne of grace. It doesn’t matter how we ourselves try to be righteous we can never be so on our own ability because our own righteousness is as a filthy rag before the Lord because we are all sinners, but those who have been Spiritually reborn or renewed of Gods Spirit to them they have been made righteous before the Father.
(2Timothy 4:8; Isaiah 45:24; 61:10 Colossians 3:2-4)

5. CROWN INCORRUPTABLE
An incorruptible crown is a victor’s crown to those who have died to self and are subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit leading them in all their ways and teach with the knowledge that only comes by the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things and bring those things back to our remembrance. None of us are perfect in our own ways, but are perfected by the Holy Spirit working in us and through us.

There are many out there walking around in sheep’s clothing, but are only ravenous wolves as they devour those without knowledge of Gods word as they are puffed up and edify themselves by teaching a corruptible word of God through a carnal traditional doctrine that not only puts condemnation on those they teach, but also on themselves as they have no knowledge of the truth of Gods word and are only acting on their own behalf as they have not Gods Spirit in them and on that day of judgment they will hear Jesus say that he never knew them.

We strive for an incorruptible crown that allows us to have more of Jesus and less of ourselves to be able to let the light of Christ shine through us before others so they will see the righteousness of God displayed through us that will draw others to his glorious light so their corruption can be made incorruptible and also become pleasing to the father in all they do and say.
(1Corinthians 9:25-27; 1John 2:28-29; Rev 4:10-11)

You are either Christ own through the Spiritual rebirth and indwelled with the Holy Spirit or you are none of His at all. Those who have tasted the truth and walk in God's righteousness found in them will never walk away.
 
So I'd like someone to make this eternal security friendly. Do not use any other scripture but simply show me how this is es friendly....

Lukes faithful servant.....

Whose a good and faithful servant?

One who when Jesus comes to gather his flock he will be found watching and doing Gods will.... and they will be rewarded

But if that Same believer doubts Jesus return and falls away back into his sinful life of drinking and beating

Jesus then shows and catches this man in his fallen away state and he shall cut him to pieces

And Now... wasnt before but now he is appointed with the unbelievers...

I will stop right there... are the following statements true?

1. The servant who is rewared is a saved believer going to heaven
2. The rewarded servant and the servant who fall away are the same servant
3. The servant if caught in a fallen away state will be with the unbelievers
4. Believers can end up in 2 different places

If these are true then a believer can lose his salvation.... osas cant be both true and false, one side or the other will have scripture that only works one way and this in one of those....

So show me how youd Teach the verses above as ES..... using only that above

And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luke 12:42-46


The servant was promoted to ruler, to serve the Lord’s people until He returns.


If that servant remains faithful, when the Lord returns he will be blessed and honored greatly.


If that servant is unfaithful and begins to associate with sinners and neglects his calling to serve the Lord’s people then he will be justly assigned with unbelievers because he has become lost.




JLB
 
Matthew 24:42-51 (NASB)
42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Jesus was speaking to his disciples, giving them final instructions, as it were. He was particularly focused on them remaining alert for his return and comporting themselves well as his servants while they did. Throughout his lecture to his disciples, Jesus used various characters to render his points: a thief invading a house, servants fulfilling their duties (or not) in their Master's absence, virgins waiting for the bridegroom to arrive, servants given money by their Master to increase in his absence, a shepherd separating sheep from goats. In all of these analogies, the same commands are driven home: watch for my return and fulfill well my will in my absence. To fail to do so would carry dire consequences; to obey would result in reward. When Christ used the analogies that he did, was he intending to make his disciples precisely parallel to slaves and female virgins? Well, the first seems unlikely in light of the following:

John 15:15-16 (NASB)
15 "No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.
16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and
that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Obviously, that Christ intended his disciples to think of themselves literally as his virgins is also very unlikely. These analogies are simply rhetorical devices carrying Christ's commands to remain on the alert for his return and fulfill well his will. By way of these analogies, Jesus was giving a broad-strokes exhortation to his disciples, not indicating that his disciples were actually mere slaves, or actually were young, female virgins, or that he was actually a thief who would steal from them in the dead of night.

But those opposed to the idea of eternal security in Jesus Christ want the analogies to be more significant, particularly the servant-Master ones, because they seem to offer ground for a saved-and-lost construction to Jesus words. A servant of Christ the Master can only refer to a born-again person, they say. And so, if such a servant can do evil and be cast into a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, it has to mean that a born-again person can lose their salvation.

Well, it seems to me there are some things that confound putting such a construction on Matthew 24:42-51:

Born-again believers are not merely servants but children of God, adopted joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), accepted by God in him, given a Spirit of adoption whereby they may cry, "Abba, Father!" (Romans 8:15) The relationship such people have to God far exceeds in intimacy the servant-Master one. But in the servant-Master parable of Matthew 24 there isn't the slightest hint of such intimacy, no inkling of a deeper, closer fellowship between the Master and his servants. How strictly, then, ought one to treat the parable as parallel to the redeemed child-Heavenly Father relationship? Not very, it seems to me. And this has a bearing on whether or not its appropriate to say that the servants in the analogy/parable are representative of the post-Calvary, born-again person. In light of the sharp disparity here in what saved-and-lost folks want to make a tight parallel, I am confident that it does no violence to the passage to say that it is not speaking particularly of born-again people, but only generally of an inferior-superior relationship (hence the virgins-bridegroom analogy).

There is, too, the constraining fact that the sole basis upon which anyone gains acceptance with God is Christ and their trust in him as their Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10; John 3:16; 1 John 5:11-13; Acts 4:12; John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). Every born-again person is "accepted in the Beloved (Christ)" (Ephesians 1:6); there is no other way to God except in and through the Beloved. Good works, especially, are explicitly and repeatedly excluded as a means of being saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:1-3, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31, etc.) But if good works have nothing whatever to do with how one obtains salvation, and if Christ alone is the sole avenue to acceptance by God (John 10:9; John 1:12), how do good works (obedience to God) become the means by which one retains their salvation? And how, if works are the way one remains saved, does one not ultimately become one's own savior? These facts and questions cast a great pall over the saved-and-lost interpretation of Matthew 24:42-51, in my view.

Also, in his lecture to his disciples in Matthew 24 & 25, Jesus says nothing about salvation, about his atoning sacrifice for the sins of all mankind, about his disciples being made alive spiritually by the Holy Spirit, about believing in their heart and confessing with their mouth the Lord Jesus Christ. These are all necessary predicates, however, to being in relationship with God. Here, again, the servants-Master parable does not properly parallel the child-Heavenly Father relationship of the born-again person. Was Christ, then, intending to make such a parallel? It doesn't seem so to me.

In addition to these things, I wonder about the person in whom the Spirit truly dwells carrying on as the unfaithful servant did in Christ's parable(s). Where the Master is totally absent in the parables, the born-again person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20; John 14:16-17; 1 John 4:13; Romans 8:9-14, etc.) who convicts, teaches, comforts, strengthens and transforms them (John 16:8-13; Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Galatians 5:22-23, etc.). In fact, without his presence within, a person cannot be, and is not, saved (Titus 3:5-8; Romans 8:9). How can a person for whom all these things are true, carry on like the unfaithful servant? I don't think they can - persistently and untroubled, as the unfaithful servant did - which further weakens the idea that the servant-Master parables are meant to parallel and characterize the child-Heavenly Father relationship.

In light of all this, it seems clear to me that Jesus was not intending to teach anything about salvation in Matthew 24:42-51, about being an adopted joint-heir with himself in God's family, but was merely exhorting his disciples, in a very OT, law-keeping, Jewish way, to serve him well in his absence - especially when his absence grew prolonged.
 
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