Calvinism and Darwinism

[Biblereader]

If you are a Calvinist, or, a Christian who has reconciled
evolution with the book of Genesis,
please pay attention :

In the movie, Expelled,
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
there is an interview with a man by the name of Dr. William Provine, who is an evolutionist,
and an admitted atheist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Provine
Dr. Provine said, IF you truly believe in evolution, there is no hope whatsoever of
there being any free will. I have quoted almost verbatim from his interview in the movie,
Expelled.

He believes we are without freedom of choice. He is an evolutionist.
Calvinism teaches the same thing.

Evolutionist’s basic doctrine is the denial of God, life after death, and
responsibility for your actions. Darwinists believe we have no way to
choose. we are pre programmed.

If you can, get a copy of Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed, and listen carefully,
again, to what the Darwinists say.

http://lifeguardianfoundation.org/actio ... s_histor...

Is every neo-Darwinian a racist bent on genocide? No. But as Darwinian thinkers themselves admit, the neo-Darwinian outlook provides a handy foundation for the Culture of Death’s rejection of human dignity and thus opens the way for the host of attacks on human life that continue to infect nations across the globe. Thank you, Mr. Stein, for reminding us that ideas have major consequences.

Calvinism teaches, also, that man does not have the ability to choose. No free will.
they claim that people are incapable or unable to act righteously without God’s aid. “As a result of this inborn corruption, the natural man is totally unable to do anything spiritually good; thus Calvinists speak of man’s “total inability.†The inability intended by this terminology is spiritual inability; it means that the sinner is so spiritually bankrupt that he can do nothing pertaining to his salvation.

NO FREE WILL-believed by both Darwinists/Evolutionists, and Calvinists.
Another reason why I reject the Calvinist belief that man is basically not responsible for his actions. God is in total control, they say,
and man is just a helpless robot. All is pre-determined. Just like what Darwinists/Eugenicists believe.

I believe what God says, that we are able to make choices. And, those choices are either for Him, or against Him.

 

[Dude named Louis]

With all due respect, there is no logic to your coupling Darwinism & Calvinism together this way. It would be analogous to me saying that Charles Manson was a serial killer and his name is Charles, ergo Charles Stanley must also be a serial killer because his name is Charles.

Yes, I am bankrupt and can do nothing toward earning my salvation. Thankfully, I have a Savior whose atonement paid for my sin and I can live a righteous life through Christ in me.

You Calvanist haters really should get another hobby. It gets old reading these threads all the time.

I am happy to err on the side of giving God the glory for my salvation and hold it as a great mystery of the faith that I am called to choose Him. And I'll praise Him as he helps me grow in grace.

 

[watchman F]

You Calvanist haters really should get another hobby. It gets old reading these threads all the time.

To call error, error has nothing to do with hate. Does it take on e to hate JWs, or Mormons to know that what they teach is false and unscriptural?

I am happy to err on the side of giving God the glory for my salvation and hold it as a great mystery of the faith that I am called to choose Him. And I'll praise Him as he helps me grow in grace.

Knowing that we have choice to answer or reject the call of Christ does not negate who receive the glory. All true believing Arminians give God all the glory for their salvation, for He is the only one worthy of any glory.

 

[Dude named Louis]

[quote="Dude named Louis":r96wzi9f]You Calvanist haters really should get another hobby. It gets old reading these threads all the time.

To call error, error has nothing to do with hate. Does it take on e to hate JWs, or Mormons to know that what they teach is false and unscriptural?

I am happy to err on the side of giving God the glory for my salvation and hold it as a great mystery of the faith that I am called to choose Him. And I'll praise Him as he helps me grow in grace.

Knowing that we have choice to answer or reject the call of Christ does not negate who receive the glory. All true believing Arminians give God all the glory for their salvation, for He is the only one worthy of any glory.[/quote:r96wzi9f]

You know, great minds have wrestled and debated these matters for centuries. Godly men (and women) who love the Lord and seek truth. I love my Arminian brothers, I understand how they get to their conclusions. I have different interpretations of the texts and come to different conclusions. Yet the friends I have who are not reformed (I prefer Reformed to Calvanist) understand that we have so much in common—they don't treat me as someone who believes in a false gospel. They realize at the end of the day that we both realize that we are sinners saved by grace through faith in Christ.

 

[watchman F]

I guess i am not that ''liberal'' when handling God's truth.

 

[Dude named Louis]

I guess i am not that ''liberal'' when handling God's truth.

See, there can be no discussion because I am assuming by your use of quotes that you are using the word "liberal" as a pejorative. It's ok, if that's what you believe God has called you to do, I suppose you must.
I wish you all the best.

 

[Biblereader]

You Calvanist haters really should get another hobby. It gets old reading these threads all the time.

I am happy to err on the side of giving God the glory for my salvation and hold it as a great mystery of the faith that I am called to choose Him. And I'll praise Him as he helps me grow in grace.

I don't hate Calvinists! I'm just searching for the truth, and trying to see why men want to blame God for all the wrong in the world. Calvinism teaches that, and I want to know why.
Why can't they just trust that they don't understand things, and that God has all the answers, and He has not told us all the answers.
Why can't they reconcile free will and predestination?

It's entirely true, even though our little minds can't make it fit.

 

[Biblereader]

To call error, error has nothing to do with hate. Does it take on e to hate JWs, or Mormons to know that what they teach is false and unscriptural?

All true believing Arminians give God all the glory for their salvation, for He is the only one worthy of any glory.

It is a common politically correct mindset to call anyone who disagrees with you, a "hater".
People who disagreed with Obama, were called racists.
No, I don't hate Calvinists, I just don't see why they won't take responsibility for witnessing, for praying and spiritual warfare, or for their rejection of Jesus Christ.
It seems a religion of apathy to me.

Also, was there a religion at the time during Calvin's life, that taught anything similar to evolution?
I'm trying to see why Calvin decided that humans have no free will.
Which is bosh, but, WHY did Calvin do that?

 

[Biblereader]

Yet the friends I have who are not reformed (I prefer Reformed to Calvanist) understand that we have so much in common—they don't treat me as someone who believes in a false gospel. They realize at the end of the day that we both realize that we are sinners saved by grace through faith in Christ.

But see, that's the slippery slope people are getting on, the broad path.
The bad stuff.

It is false, to believe that we have no responsibility for our rejection of Jesus Christ.
You may have faith in Jesus Christ, but you do not teach what He taught. We don't all love the same God/god.
This view of every one's faith being subject to THEIR interpretation, is wrong. Everything is not relative, and there is a time to call sin, sin, and to expose false teachings.
All is not one. We don't all worship the same.

 

[Vic C.]

No, I don't hate Calvinists, I just don't see why they won't take responsibility for witnessing, for praying and spiritual warfare, or for their rejection of Jesus Christ.
It seems a religion of apathy to me.

Also, was there a religion at the time during Calvin's life, that taught anything similar to evolution?
I'm trying to see why Calvin decided that humans have no free will.
Which is bosh, but, WHY did Calvin do that?

Hi BR, I am by label, neither a Calvinist or Arminian. I once rebelled against any notion of Calvinism. I was even questioned as to whether or not I believed they were saved! But as I get older and more mature in my salvation, I am no longer as stiffed-necked as I once was but I'm not anywhere near being a 5-pointer either.

I actually see many Calvinists, even many here, as a great witness for the Lord. The word needs to be preached; they know that. It's how God uses we people to reach His chosen lost ones. We need to be careful not to lump Calvinists in with the hyper-Calvinists.

You said:

"Also, was there a religion at the time during Calvin's life, that taught anything similar to evolution?"

You need to look into what the RCC was teaching, then and now. Also, to understand how Calvin came up with his beliefs, first remember, he was a lawyer. He took a very systematic approach to his theology. After all, we do have a system of study derived from Biblical Theology called Systematic Theology and he took full advantage of it. Looking at some of his works through 20th.-21st. century "eyes" makes it that much more difficult to comprehend.

Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say. Which is the truth. While we can't pick and choose who God wills to be the recipient of His grace, we still have the choice of rejecting or accepting the free gift. :yes

Be caerful, you are falling into the same trap as I did once. To accuse them of loving a different Gid is not right. They do, they just understand scripture in a different light.

If I may suggest, walk a mile in their shoes. What I mean is study Calvinism from their perspective to really get a solid feel what what they believe and why. Better yet, walk two miles. :D

 

[watchman F]

Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say. Which is the truth. While we can't pick and choose who God wills to be the recipient of His grace, we still have the choice of rejecting or accepting the free gift.

Sorry Vic, but I think Calvinist would disagree with you. They do not believe we have free will, they believe we are either slaves to sin or if God decides to regenerate us slaves to His will. If there is a Calvinist that disagree with what I have just said, I would be glad to hear them out. The whole point of predestination, limited atonement, and irresistible grace is that we cannot choose or reject God on our own accord, but that all will reject God unless He first regenerates us, and then we can't reject Him.

 

[Vic C.]

No need to apologize. I'm not a Calvinist. This statement I made:

Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say

It was a tongue in cheek statement made by another member here. I can't remember it exactly so I paraphrased it. Since I can't remember where it was, the poster will remain anonymous unless they speak up.

The rest is what I believe. :yes Trust me, I'm fully aware of all five points.

 

[watchman F]

No need to apologize. I'm not a Calvinist. This statement I made:

Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say

It was a tongue in cheek statement made by another member here. I can't remember it exactly so I paraphrased it. Since I can't remember where it was, the poster will remain anonymous unless they speak up.

The rest is what I believe. :yes Trust me, I'm fully aware of all five points.

Oh....lol....I get it now. Sometime I am just way to serious...lol. My bad, hahaha

 

[Biblereader]

You said:


Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say. Which is the truth. While we can't pick and choose who God wills to be the recipient of His grace, we still have the choice of rejecting or accepting the free gift. :yes



If I may suggest, walk a mile in their shoes. What I mean is study Calvinism from their perspective to really get a solid feel what what they believe and why. Better yet, walk two miles. :D

Hey, Vic, I have a close relative who is a Calvinist, and YES THEY DO teach that you have NO inclination, absolutely none, towards accepting Jesus Christ, not ever, no matter what.
The ONLY time you do, is when Jesus draws you, and then, they teach, you have NO free will to reject Him. That's how they explain predestination.
I hear it allll the time, that we have NO FREE WILL TO CHOOSE JESUS> ALL THE TIME.
Sorry to be so emphatic, but, I want to make sure people understand I'm hearing it from the horse's mouth, every time I bring up the subject with my close relative.
And, they DO believe that God damns people to hell. Yes, yes, yes, they do.

 

[Biblereader]

No need to apologize. I'm not a Calvinist. This statement I made:

Anyway, Calvinists do not teach we have no free will. We do have will to reject God any way we choose, they would say

It was a tongue in cheek statement made by another member here. I can't remember it exactly so I paraphrased it. Since I can't remember where it was, the poster will remain anonymous unless they speak up.

The rest is what I believe. :yes Trust me, I'm fully aware of all five points.

Oh. I didn't see that.

Got carried away. I want to know why Calvinists blame God for sending people to hell.
That is a false religion. The god of the Calvinists, is NOT my God, who gives us freedom to choose.

 

[Dude named Louis]

Oh. I didn't see that.

Got carried away. I want to know why Calvinists blame God for sending people to hell.
That is a false religion. The god of the Calvinists, is NOT my God, who gives us freedom to choose.

We don't. Man's sin has condemned him. FTR, I have always said I believe in choice—I believe scripture teaches both—election and choice and reconciling them is a great mystery of the faith that I will leave as just that, a mystery.

Suit yourself. I've read the statement of faith to this website and am in agreement with it. If you feel that you need to separate yourself from me a lowly Calvanist, go for it.

If the leadership of this site thinks that those who follow reformed theology are worshipping a false God, then maybe that should be made clear.

The sad thing is that I came to this site because I had been spending too much time on a secular site trying to defend Christianity against the atheists. There is more fighting about religion here.

 

[watchman F]

I have always said I believe in choice—I believe scripture teaches both—election and choice and reconciling them is a great mystery of the faith that I will leave as just that, a mystery.

Suit yourself. I've read the statement of faith to this website and am in agreement with it. If you feel that you need to separate yourself from me a lowly Calvanist, go for it.

Explain to me what you mean when you say you are a calvinist and you believe in choice?

 

[Vic C.]

If the leadership of this site thinks that those who follow reformed theology are worshipping a false God, then maybe that should be made clear.

Louis, I have pretty much agreed with most of what you have posted since you've been here. I have also made it clear in the past that this sort of Calvinism-bashing will not be tolerated any longer. I've pleaded in this thread alone that if anyone is in doubt as to what calvinism is, they should study it without bias. I have also said in the past that while I don't agree with all of Calvinism, I do feel it was systematically derived from the Bible, meaning it is Biblical in that sense.

There are many here who are confusing Calvinism with hyper-Calvinism and that's unfortunate. :gah

So, I prayerfully hope you didn't get any negative vibes from me. There is much merit to Reformed theology. Much of what I believe about salvation and eschatology is somewhat from reformed theology.

 

[watchman F]

By the way my question

Explain to me what you mean when you say you are a calvinist and you believe in choice?

Is an honest question not rhetorical.

 

[Dude named Louis]

[quote="Dude named Louis":3io0umwc]
Explain to me what you mean when you say you are a calvinist and you believe in choice?

[/quote:3io0umwc]

I'll explain best I can. Firstly, I don't consider myself a Calvanist—I adopt that label only in an effort to make it easier on everyone else. I consider myself a follower of Christ, as I understand Him through the Holy Bible. I LARGELY believe in the reformed faith which does in fact rely on much of what Calvin taught. I have worshiped in many churches and heard teaching from many pastors of varying denominations (and non-denominations): Calvary Chapel, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian. I have heard the gospel preached in all of them (and sometimes, NOT SO MUCH. And so, I do vary with most of the reformed faith believes on a few points, and this is because I have learned from other views and tried to be open to trying to understand what the bible is teaching rather than just relying on doctrines passed down historically (though I do think there is a place for such).

Okay, sorry, just wanted to be clear where I was coming from. You asked what I mean when I say I am a Calvanist and I believe in choice. I believe God's elect refers to His regenerating us by His spirit in order that we might accept the gospel. That's where you would say "AHA! Then there's no choice"! But I would say that I believe from my human perspective I fully am called to choose Him. I never felt forced or controlled to choose Him. I never felt like a puppet. I think my heart was black and I think that it makes sense that God would have breathed life in me to be able to see the truth. How do these thing co-exist? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't know. And I'm ok not knowing. Aren't there any mysteries of the faith to you? Things where you say "Gee, that sounds strange, I'll just have to take it on faith".

See, to me, the whole point is irrelevant. I hate being put in the position to defend Calvanism. I'm not best equipped to do it for one thing, and I really don't care enough. I just don't like when I read snippets that misrepresent the reformed faith. Things like "We think God is sending people to hell" or "Why bother evangelizing, God will just save who he wants". Those are not my experience in the reformed faith. We take responsibility for our sin and take repentance seriously—at our church we have a whole section set aside each week focussing on a commandment, our repentance and our assurance of forgiveness. I've read on this site where people think Calvanists blame God for there sin—not true at all!

I don't want to convert anyone to Calvanism, I don't really care that much. I think Vic is very astute when he says that some are confusing Calvanism with HyperCalvanism. I respect the desire to uphold the truth. Yet we should also use humility when discussing the scriptures—surely we will all be found to be off base on some issues when it's all said and done, right?