I think this is quite unfair and implicitly denies the manifestly obvious - we have no choice but to mix in secular knowledge in our reading of the Scriptures. Like the rest of us, JM grew up in a world where he learned the meaning of words and the content of concepts in a secular environment. We really have no choice in this matter - there simply is no disentangling the Scriptures from the rest of the world. To claim that one can do so seems almost preposterous.
Well, you seem to affirm what a few of us have been saying for a while now. It’s not like you are unwillingly accepting some of secular society’s knowledge but embracing it. To say we cannot know the truth and separate if from secular knowledge denies the scripture I have already posted. [see 1 Cor. 1 and 2] This mixture of thought leads to ideas such as universalism and open theism by negating a Biblical worldview, not starting with God in all matters, etc.
We read in the Scriptures to love one another. This does not mean that the very meaning that we ascribe to the word "love" in not going to have been heavily informed by our "secular" experiences in the world. In a healthy family, we learn about love in our early relationships with our parents and others. We become educated about "what love is" at least in part, through such experiences.
2 Corinthians 6:14-17 KJV (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
We see there is a difference between the way in which the world thinks and operates and Drew’s mixture of “some Bible here†a “little secular knowledge there†is not the idea we are to strive for. We are to think “God’s thoughts after Him,†not affirm our human knowledge.
Does Jesus revolutionize and expound on the concept of love? I would say that He does (for example when He teaches us to love our enemies - to do good to those who hate us). And the Scriptures do teach us a lot about what it means to do good. But not everything, and I submit that to suggest otherwise is patently naive.
Much of our knowledge of how to express love is garnered through living in the real world. We learn how to speak gently and reassuringly to a child through life experiences, not through studying the Scriptures. A parent also learns when it is time to let his/her child start making their own mistakes by using judgement and knowledge gleaned through life experience.
Again, Drew’s relativism based on his experience in secular society only affirms he embraces a non-Biblical worldview and if he doesn’t yet deny the Bible as the final authority in all matters of faith, he logically should for the Bible is a collection of stories and experiences of other people. Drew’s god can not violate the free will of anyone to insure a Bible that would be complete and without error.
A parent instructs a child to fear the Lord for it is the beginning of wisdom [Psa. 111:10] and a parent is to instruct there child to have a Biblical worldview by teaching the scriptures [Deut. 6:7]. Our knowledge of the living God is what directs our steps and this happens when we are born again and receive the Holy Spirit. Then and only then can we raise up our children and instruct them in the way they are to go. Our experiences before regeneration are meaningless if we are not given a context to those experience through God’s wisdom.
The Scriptures are "a burning light" to quote Bruce Cockburn, but they are a light that shines in a real world and knowledge about that world is essential to following the leading of that light.
So what you’re saying is we need the knowledge of the world to be able to follow the light of Christ? This is foolishness.
An overview of secular society’s wisdom
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of
the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also
the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and
men loved darkness rather than light, BECAUSE their deeds were evil.
What Drew suggest is impossible. The wisdom of the secular world is evil, unbelievers hate the God that saved us and Drew suggests we need the knowledge of the world to follow the light?
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: [The fallen mind of man is hostile toward God] for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: [And what is the reason for their blindness? Vanity of their mind, the understanding was darkened.] 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even
their mind and conscience is defiled.
We should be separated from the wisdom of the world, their logic, their reasoning, their ways. God’s wisdom shows us that we are at a spiritual war [Gen. 3:15] with the devil and his offspring, that we have an understanding, not of ourselves but from God…that allows us to access this wisdom and understand it [John 8:44] in opposition to the children of the devil. Since Drew affirms his experience he gained in the world is the only factor in which he understands the Bible and the “light†[what ever that means to him], and not the other way around, this thread is pretty much finished. There is really nothing left to post and what I’ve read Drew only strengthens my resolve to avoid him.
~JM~
