Calvinism

[BenJasher]

Actually, we have ironed out the details, and we are nearing ready to begin.

He has his first remarks. I am nearly finished with mine.

I am done with the negotiations and sabre rattling.

I wouldn't miss this for the world. Even if I have to step into an arena I am unfamiliar with. Or agree to guidelines I would rather not agree to.

I admit without hesitation that I am unfamiliar with "Formal Debate". I am not a member of Toastmasters. I always thought that anyone who would join the debate team or Toastmasters was an open target to get their lunch money taken from them, or to get de-pants-ed, or beat up. Maybe all three.

But I am not unfamiliar with investigations and presenting a case. And it didn't come from watching TV.

I would rather he start the debate. But if he will not post his first remarks first, I will go first. By Sunday night @ 2355 CST, if JM hasn't posted first, I will.


Let the game begin. I will go in handicapped. I am not afraid. I will even tie two brain cells behind my back when I begin the debate.

And I won't resort to name calling, cussing or inflammatory remarks. I won't be needing them.

As far as I am concerned, you can delete all the folderal I have spewed since I made the challenge to JM. Basically that would be anything I have posted on this last page with the exception to my response to Stranger.

 

[BenJasher]

BTW: I edited my last remarks. Someone had started the job for me, I just finished it

I thought we all agreed that that would be the only place for that topic.

Ya see, this is news to me. I had to go to the debate forums and read the rules to see that for myself.

Like I said, it's news to me. Last thing I knew, the topic of Universalism was off-limits.

 

[Jay T]

And all this time I thought that Jesus Christ's work on the cross justified those that the Father gave Him forever sealed by the Holy Spirit while in the corrupt, mortal flesh until the day of redemption; and that the New Creature was that which was born of God at the born again experience of all believers.

What people fail to understand is that Jesus Christ died on the cross...to wipe out our sin debt....not to keep on adding, to the sin debt.

When Jesus Christ pardoned the sinner.....it does not mean they can keep sinning.

The person who continues to commit sin....AFTER, being pardoned by Jesus.....DOES NOT UNDERSTAND......what salvation is all about !

 

[Guest]

What people fail to understand is that Jesus Christ died on the cross...to wipe out our sin debt....not to keep on adding, to the sin debt.

Are you suggesting after a person receives salvation that they no longer CAN or SHOULD sin?

And does the believe have the ability NOT to sin, after salvation?

When Jesus Christ pardoned the sinner.....it does not mean they can keep sinning.

The person who continues to commit sin....AFTER, being pardoned by Jesus.....DOES NOT UNDERSTAND......what salvation is all about !

Is it possible to NOT sin, even after being pardoned?

I will assume that you have been pardoned, are you suggesting that you no longer sin?

 

[Solo]

What people fail to understand is that Jesus Christ died on the cross...to wipe out our sin debt....not to keep on adding, to the sin debt.

When Jesus Christ pardoned the sinner.....it does not mean they can keep sinning.

The person who continues to commit sin....AFTER, being pardoned by Jesus.....DOES NOT UNDERSTAND......what salvation is all about !

Why do you continue to sin?

 

[Vic C.]

Ya see, this is news to me. I had to go to the debate forums and read the rules to see that for myself.

Like I said, it's news to me. Last thing I knew, the topic of Universalism was off-limits.

LMBO... to top it off, evidently I agreed to a Formal Debate Forum only allowance. I must have had way too much coffee that day. :-D

:smt102

 

[JM]

If you haven't started the thread by Sunday afternoon forget it....

See ya'll around.

Peace.

j

 

[Judy]

Dude, where are you going??? :o

 

[BenJasher]

Did he just turn tail and run?

I already have my opening statements posted.

I hate it when I end up arguing with myself.

 

[Jay T]

Why do you continue to sin?

AH.....I see my Judge, Jury, and Executioner is here !

You want to leave God, out of the Judging process, and take it on yourself ?

You know....the religious leaders of Christ's day accused HIM of committing sin.....were they right or wrong, in doing that ?

 

[Rick W]

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:39 pm

Either follow the structure of a formal debate or give it up. I've been more then ready to quit this forum, so I'll give you a few days to agree. If you don't agree by Sunday I'll be gone by then.

j

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:05 pm

post deleted

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:38 pm

If you haven't started the thread by Sunday afternoon forget, this is my last post.

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:44 pm

No, I am not a Russellite. But I like what the Millenial Dawn people have said in the past.

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:35 pm
Debate Forum

Greetings JM, and all others who have come to monitor this discussion.

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:52 pm

Did he just turn tail and run?

I already have my opening statements posted.

I hate it when I end up arguing with myself.

:roll:

 

[TanNinety]

I would rather he start the debate. But if he will not post his first remarks first, I will go first. By Sunday night @ 2355 CST, if JM hasn't posted first, I will.

I am with BenJasher on this one. JM should have made his opening statement first. If I am mouthing off about calvinism and JM calls me out on it and challenges me, it follows that since I am the one to raise initial accusations against calvinism that I should make my opening statement and JM then defend it. I was really interested in following this debate but oh well.

:roll:

 

[jgredline]

''If'' JM and I suspect he is gone on sabatical, does not participate in this debate against Ben, is there anybody else who would like to debate what ben has posted? If so, please PM a mod or admin and let him/her know....

Happy debating.....

 

[BenJasher]

I posted my opening remarks somewhere in the neighborhood of 1730.

17 hours later, I deleted it. It was between 8100 and 8200 words in length.

I still have my opening statements. I have my 15 questions. And I am ready to answer any of his questions.

If JM wants to reconsider, I am ready. He needs to let me know somehow. But this time I will post first, and we will adhere to the guidelines we started with:
1) we will follow the guidelines of a formal debate with the following two exceptions:
a)post length will be limited to 10,000 words.
(I tried to stretch my opening statements to 10,000 words. But I didn't see the point. I had already made my point by 7600 words. Anything beyond 10,000 words would only prove that the person really didn't have anything to say, and he was using a superfluity of words to disguise that fact.)
b)the number of questions has been extended to 15, rather than the 5 stipulated in the forum rules.

2)opening statements can be made of any type of information the debater wishes to use.

3)Any statement made after opening statements will be confined to scriptural exegetics and/or historical supporting evidence.

4)The use of Greek and/or Hebrew will be limited to simple etymology.

 

[BenJasher]

I have reconsidered.

I am going to put my opening statements back up on the debate forum.

I will give JM 24 hours to respond.
@1430 CST tomorrow, I will permanently delete my opening statements if JM hasn't responded.

 

[jgredline]

I have reconsidered.

I am going to put my opening statements back up on the debate forum.

I will give JM 24 hours to respond.
@1430 CST tomorrow, I will permanently delete my opening statements if JM hasn't responded.

Hello Ben
I have spoken with JM and he is indeed on sabatical and will not be back to forum for a while. Since you went through all the trouble of putting together your speal on UR, If you like I would be willing to take up the debate, knowing I am handicapped....Let me know.

Javier

 

[BenJasher]

JG,

I doubt very much that JM is on sabbatical. I think he realized he got himself into a fight he didn't want.

@ 1430 CST tomorrow, I will have proved that point. If he hasn't posted a response by then, I will remove my opening statements and consider the issue dead.

He isn't on sabbatical. He's just hoping I will go away so he doesn't have to embarrass himself.

 

[Solo]

AH.....I see my Judge, Jury, and Executioner is here !

You want to leave God, out of the Judging process, and take it on yourself ?

You know....the religious leaders of Christ's day accused HIM of committing sin.....were they right or wrong, in doing that ?

Why do you continue to sin?

PS. This is not judging you, this is a question, if answered, will lead to a Biblical truth that will help you with your understanding of salvation. Don't be so paranoid.

 

[jgredline]

JG,

I doubt very much that JM is on sabbatical. I think he realized he got himself into a fight he didn't want.

@ 1430 CST tomorrow, I will have proved that point. If he hasn't posted a response by then, I will remove my opening statements and consider the issue dead.

He isn't on sabbatical. He's just hoping I will go away so he doesn't have to embarrass himself.

Ben
Trust me. JM is not afraid of debating you. He is on Forum Vacation....Now here is your opportunity to embarrass me.....Trust me, you will have plenty of folks rooting for you....What say you..

 

[Jay T]

Why do you continue to sin?

PS. This is not judging you, this is a question, if answered, will lead to a Biblical truth that will help you with your understanding of salvation. Don't be so paranoid.

Why do you not believe Jesus Christ when He said: 'go and sin no more'

You believe that Jesus Christ says things that are impossible ?

I happen to believe Jesus Christ's words.....I know it can be done !
WJHY ?

Because He said so.....that is faith in Jesus Christ.
That is Righteousness by faith...in action.

The man Job was PERFECT.......God said so.

BUT, as Job said himself....if he called himself perfect, it is WRONG !

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: [if I say], I [am] perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
9:21 [Though] I [were] perfect, [yet] would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

Therefore IF I were sinless in God's eyes.....to say so, would make me a liar.