• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

Calvinist forum.

Dave...

Independent Reformed
Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
2,049
Reaction score
152
Should the Calvinist forum be renamed the Reformed forum? Just sayin'. 'Reformed' speaks of a biblical understanding, and the name "Calvin' speaks of a man, who had a reformed view. The debates always end up being deliberately steered towards the man, and not scripture. For that reason alone it's worth it.

Thoughts?

Dave
 
Calvin taught that Jesus had to suffer in hell to pay for our sins, that's another Gospel

Calvin wrote in the Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16

"which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. So after suffering in the body on the cross, Christ’s soul suffered tortures of the condemned in hell."

That's Another Gospel, calvin was a heretic, there is a spirit of error throughout all of calvinist theology.

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

There is no way to get around the fact Calvin's gospel was not the Gospel once delivered unto the saints. not even close
 
Leonard Coppes wrote a book titled: Are 5 points enough: Ten points of Calvinism.

He basically shows to be true Calvinist, you have to be Presbyterian, kind of a Theonomist and I can't remember the rest. It's been years since I read it. But this would exclude Baptists and some others.
 
Calvin taught that Jesus had to suffer in hell to pay for our sins, that's another Gospel

Calvin wrote in the Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16

"which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. So after suffering in the body on the cross, Christ’s soul suffered tortures of the condemned in hell."

That's Another Gospel, calvin was a heretic, there is a spirit of error throughout all of calvinist theology.

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

There is no way to get around the fact Calvin's gospel was not the Gospel once delivered unto the saints. not even close
You shouldn't misrepresent what others believe, especially just so you can call them a heretic. You have done so by ignoring context, which seems to be common for those who strongly disagree with Calvin. From Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16, section 5:

'In short, from the moment when he assumed the form of a servant, he began, in order to redeem us, to pay the price of deliverance. Scripture, however, the more certainly to define the mode of salvation, ascribes it peculiarly and specially to the death of Christ. He himself declares that he gave his life a ransom for many (Mat_20:28). Paul teaches that he died for our sins (Rom_4:25). John Baptist exclaimed, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (Joh_1:29). Paul in another passage declares, “that we are justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood” (Rom_3:25). Again, being justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Rom_5:9).'

From section 6:

'The very form of the death embodies a striking truth. The cross was cursed not only in the opinion of men, but by the enactment of the Divine Law. Hence Christ, while suspended on it, subjects himself to the curse. And thus it behoved to be done, in order that the whole curse, which on account of our iniquities awaited us, or rather lay upon us, might be taken from us by being transferred to him. This was also shadowed in the Law, since ashamot, the word by which sin itself is properly designated, was applied to the sacrifices and expiations offered for sin. . . . But that which was represented figuratively in the Mosaic sacrifices is exhibited in Christ the archetype. . . .
For the Son of God, though spotlessly pure, took upon him the disgrace and ignominy of our iniquities, and in return clothed us with his purity. To the same thing he seems to refer, when he says, that he “condemned sin in the flesh” (Rom_8:3), the Father having destroyed the power of sin when it was transferred to the flesh of Christ. This term, therefore, indicates that Christ, in his death, was offered to the Father as a propitiatory victim; that, expiation being made by his sacrifice, we might cease to tremble at the divine wrath. It is now clear what the prophet means when he says, that “the Lord has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” (Isa_53:6); namely, that as he was to wash away the pollution of sins, they were transferred to him by imputation. . . . And hence mention is always made of blood whenever scripture explains the mode of redemption: although the shedding of Christ’s blood was available not only for propitiation, but also acted as a laver to purge our defilements.'

If that doesn't speak of the gospel, I don't know what does. Notice that it's in full agreement with your statements:

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

If Calvin is a heretic on this issue, then so are you.
 
Calvin taught that Jesus had to suffer in hell to pay for our sins, that's another Gospel

Calvin wrote in the Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16

"which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. So after suffering in the body on the cross, Christ’s soul suffered tortures of the condemned in hell."

That's Another Gospel, calvin was a heretic, there is a spirit of error throughout all of calvinist theology.

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

There is no way to get around the fact Calvin's gospel was not the Gospel once delivered unto the saints. not even close
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/christdecended.html
 
Should the Calvinist forum be renamed the Reformed forum? Just sayin'. 'Reformed' speaks of a biblical understanding, and the name "Calvin' speaks of a man, who had a reformed view. The debates always end up being deliberately steered towards the man, and not scripture. For that reason alone it's worth it.

Thoughts?

Dave
I understand where you are going with this.

Countless people point to Calvin as a heretic, unregenerate and that he preached a false gospel.

The Calvinist thread in this forum focuses on the 5 points ,a.k.a. TULIP. Therre are countless Christians who call these teachings heretical. The bottom line is, that they really do not understand them even know they say they do.

Many conversations I have had with people prove this to be true.

The 5 points were actually a response to Arminian controversies.

Many do not understand that all 5 points are found in the entire Bible.

What do other members think?
 
Calvin taught that Jesus had to suffer in hell to pay for our sins, that's another Gospel

Calvin wrote in the Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16

"which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man. So after suffering in the body on the cross, Christ’s soul suffered tortures of the condemned in hell."

That's Another Gospel, calvin was a heretic, there is a spirit of error throughout all of calvinist theology.

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

There is no way to get around the fact Calvin's gospel was not the Gospel once delivered unto the saints. not even close
Do you understand the Doctrines of Grace?

T: Total Depravity
U: Unconditional Election
L: Limited Atonement
I: Irresistible Grace
P: Perseverance of the Saints

https://christianforums.net/threads/calvinism.106690/

 
You shouldn't misrepresent what others believe, especially just so you can call them a heretic. You have done so by ignoring context, which seems to be common for those who strongly disagree with Calvin. From Institutes for Christian Religion Book II Chapter 16, section 5:

'In short, from the moment when he assumed the form of a servant, he began, in order to redeem us, to pay the price of deliverance. Scripture, however, the more certainly to define the mode of salvation, ascribes it peculiarly and specially to the death of Christ. He himself declares that he gave his life a ransom for many (Mat_20:28). Paul teaches that he died for our sins (Rom_4:25). John Baptist exclaimed, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (Joh_1:29). Paul in another passage declares, “that we are justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood” (Rom_3:25). Again, being justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Rom_5:9).'

From section 6:

'The very form of the death embodies a striking truth. The cross was cursed not only in the opinion of men, but by the enactment of the Divine Law. Hence Christ, while suspended on it, subjects himself to the curse. And thus it behoved to be done, in order that the whole curse, which on account of our iniquities awaited us, or rather lay upon us, might be taken from us by being transferred to him. This was also shadowed in the Law, since ashamot, the word by which sin itself is properly designated, was applied to the sacrifices and expiations offered for sin. . . . But that which was represented figuratively in the Mosaic sacrifices is exhibited in Christ the archetype. . . .
For the Son of God, though spotlessly pure, took upon him the disgrace and ignominy of our iniquities, and in return clothed us with his purity. To the same thing he seems to refer, when he says, that he “condemned sin in the flesh” (Rom_8:3), the Father having destroyed the power of sin when it was transferred to the flesh of Christ. This term, therefore, indicates that Christ, in his death, was offered to the Father as a propitiatory victim; that, expiation being made by his sacrifice, we might cease to tremble at the divine wrath. It is now clear what the prophet means when he says, that “the Lord has laid upon him the iniquity of us all” (Isa_53:6); namely, that as he was to wash away the pollution of sins, they were transferred to him by imputation. . . . And hence mention is always made of blood whenever scripture explains the mode of redemption: although the shedding of Christ’s blood was available not only for propitiation, but also acted as a laver to purge our defilements.'

If that doesn't speak of the gospel, I don't know what does. Notice that it's in full agreement with your statements:

The Blood makes Atonement for the Soul Leviticus 17:11,

Believers were redeemed by His Blood Acts 20:28

The Body of Yeshua died, It was Finished, The Sin debt was paid.

If Calvin is a heretic on this issue, then so are you.


  • Summary​

    Greek Philosophers Taught:

    It is clear that PLATO and many Greek philosophers taught the soul was indestructible:

    "The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponet."The Jewish Encyclopedia (www.jewishencyclopedia.com, searched "immortality")

    "Among major schools of Greek thought, only Epicureans denied the soul's immortality" (Craig S. Keener,
    The IVP Bible Background Commentary New Testament, Downers Grove, Inter Varsity Press, 1993, p.374)

    "...immortality of the soul, as normally understood, is not a Biblical doctrine" (
    The International Bible Commentary, second edition, Grand Rapids, MI, Zondervan Publishing House, 1986, p.60 column 2)

    "It is a truism that Plato's teaching has profoundly influenced Christian anthropology." (Forward by F.F. Bruce,
    The Fire that Consumes, Edward Fudge)
    Conclusion: Except for the Epicureans, Greek philosophers taught of the soul's natural immortality-without God.

    Jewish Apostles Taught:

    However, the Scriptures teach the soul is destructible and immortality is part of the gospel.

    "Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body..." (Matthew 10:28)

    "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy" (James 4:12)

    "...who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" (2 Tim 1:10)
    Conclusion: Jesus and James taught the soul was destructible. Paul taught that immortality is brought through the gospel.

The Article in the Link covers every single verse that you have been led to believe otherwise, the tenses of the verbs, meaning of metaphors compared to other occurrences.

The orthodox view of hell that God will torture forever without destroying the souls of the lost for sins committed in a finite lifespan is an Abomination that makes the Judge of the whole earth a monster, deny that truth all you like.

The calvinist view is double the abomination, not only are the lost going to spend eternity in hell being tortured, Just because they were not chosen like the calvinist were chosen to be saved. They never even had a chance to believe, God created them just so that they could be tortured forever.

and the insane person says, that's what they deserve for not being elected like we were.

I have NO Doubt whatsoever that those that hold these views The Almighty sees them as ones that profane His Name, His Character.

God hates Calvinism
 
Last edited:

  • Summary​

    Greek Philosophers Taught:

    It is clear that PLATO and many Greek philosophers taught the soul was indestructible:


    Conclusion: Except for the Epicureans, Greek philosophers taught of the soul's natural immortality-without God.

    Jewish Apostles Taught:

    However, the Scriptures teach the soul is destructible and immortality is part of the gospel.


    Conclusion: Jesus and James taught the soul was destructible. Paul taught that immortality is brought through the gospel.

The Article in the Link covers every single verse that you have been led to believe otherwise, the tenses of the verbs, meaning of metaphors compared to other occurrences.

The orthodox view of hell that God will torture forever without destroying the souls of the lost for sins committed in a finite lifespan is an Abomination that makes the Judge of the whole earth a monster, deny that truth all you like.

The calvinist view is double the abomination, not only are the lost going to spend eternity in hell being tortured, Just because they were not chosen like the calvinist were chosen to be saved. They never even had a chance to believe, God created them just so that they could be tortured forever.

and the insane person says, that's what they deserve for not being elected like we were.

I have NO Doubt whatsoever that those that hold these views The Almighty sees them as ones that profane His Name, His Character.

God hates Calvinism
God hates Calvinism
Care to explain this in depth?
 
Care to explain this in depth?
I just did



It is a Fact, that once someone has been brainwashed into an ideology, It doesn't matter how much factual information that you show them that contradicts their belief, in this case scripture, they will not believe it.

YESHUA said fear Him that can Destroy both body and soul in gehenna. The Second Death

When a Body is dead, it has no life, the same goes for a Soul when it is destroyed, there is no life remaining. Everlasting Punishment, Not Punishing.

satan says, ye shall not surely die, you were created with a immortal soul that can not be destroyed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

  • Summary​

    Greek Philosophers Taught:

    It is clear that PLATO and many Greek philosophers taught the soul was indestructible:


    Conclusion: Except for the Epicureans, Greek philosophers taught of the soul's natural immortality-without God.

    Jewish Apostles Taught:

    However, the Scriptures teach the soul is destructible and immortality is part of the gospel.


    Conclusion: Jesus and James taught the soul was destructible. Paul taught that immortality is brought through the gospel.

The Article in the Link covers every single verse that you have been led to believe otherwise, the tenses of the verbs, meaning of metaphors compared to other occurrences.
I have no idea what this has to do with this discussion.

The orthodox view of hell that God will torture forever without destroying the souls of the lost for sins committed in a finite lifespan is an Abomination that makes the Judge of the whole earth a monster, deny that truth all you like.
Is that the orthodox view? If a lot of Christians believe something, does that make it orthodox? It certainly doesn’t mean it’s true.

The calvinist view is double the abomination, not only are the lost going to spend eternity in hell being tortured, Just because they were not chosen like the calvinist were chosen to be saved. They never even had a chance to believe, God created them just so that they could be tortured forever.

and the insane person says, that's what they deserve for not being elected like we were.

I have NO Doubt whatsoever that those that hold these views The Almighty sees them as ones that profane His Name, His Character.

God hates Calvinism
How about admitting and addressing your misrepresentation of what Calvin wrote?
 
I just did

Being that you're a calvinist, it is no surprise that everything that was said went right over your head.

It is a Fact, that once someone has been brainwashed into an ideology, It doesn't matter how much factual information that you show them that contradicts their belief , in this case scripture, they will not believe it.

YESHUA said fear Him that can Destroy both body and soul in gehenna. The Second Death

When the Body is dead, it has no life, the same for a soul when it is destroyed there is no life remaining.

satan says, ye shall not surely die, you were created immortal
That does not explain how God hates Calvinists.

Are you suggesting there is no consciousness in death?

You do understand that you derailed this thread to suit your purposes.

Please go over to the Calvinist forum to furthur your rant.

By the way, you just proved the point of @Dave... who started this thread.
 
By the way, you just proved the point of @Dave... who started this thread.

I was going to say something, but it was so obvious I let it speak for itself. I know Calvin's name is synonymous with a theological thought, but the temptation to attack the man seems overwhelming. For that reason I decided to try not to argue the counter points by using Jacob Arminius' name. It's challenging, but what's good for the goose...Even though his mother used to wear combat boots and drive a pickle wagon. :Bwh

Dave
 
I was going to say something, but it was so obvious I let it speak for itself. I know Calvin's name is synonymous with a theological thought, but the temptation to attack the man seems overwhelming. For that reason I decided to try not to argue the counter points by using Jacob Arminius' name. It's challenging, but what's good for the goose...Even though his mother used to wear combat boots and drive a pickle wagon. :Bwh

Dave
That's funny.
 
Uhm Lutherans and plenty non Calvinist believe in eternal damnation for the wicked
 
Act 13:46
.....But since you have rejected it and judged yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we will offer it to the Gentiles.

They had a choice and rejected

Calvinist - they had no choice

Judged yourselves unworthy

Calvinist - you were not chosen to have Eternal life.
 
Act 13:46
.....But since you have rejected it and judged yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we will offer it to the Gentiles.

They had a choice and rejected

Calvinist - they had no choice

Judged yourselves unworthy

Calvinist - you were not chosen to have Eternal life.
Only 2 types of people in the world the regenerate (elect) and the unregenerate.

Anyone who claims to have been saved and walked away, were never really converted.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us.
 
Back
Top