Can a Person Get Saved Without Understanding The Trinity

[Igor]

I'm a little disturbed that so many people here seem to think that you can be saved when you don't believe Jesus is God! If Jesus is not God, then he was just a person like the rest of us. Can a good person save you from sin? No. You may not completely understand how the trinity works, but that is a lot different than saying you can be saved by believing Jesus was just another man! That will not save you.

 

[Mike]

This is begging the question, is it not?

I lean towards people not being saved if they don't believe Jesus is God and not the Father. But that he isn't the Father is abundantly clear and then the deity of the Holy Spirit gets pulled into as well.


Just a reminder that this thread is over 1 year old so some posters may not get responses.

Free,

I guess I was looking at this from the perspective of someone who either tries and can't come to an understanding of the Trinity OR someone who has not had the revelation of the Trinity. Personally, I'm Trinitarian through and through. But in a more extreme example, thinking of a tribal person in a remote region of the world who only has the revelation of Creation to acknowledge God. If he responds to this limited revelation with reverence for God, I believe he can have salvation, but this is all in the Wonderful Hands of the Lord.

To the person who struggles with it and can't comprehend it, I believe there can be Grace. Actually there can always be Grace. Who are we to say otherwise? The person who knows, can comprehend it and rejects it? In God's Hands. The Trinity is such a complicated notion to grasp, I guess I just have a problem with the belief that a concept that's not fully explainable even to a Trinitarian like myself, is outside of salvation looking in. I'm never one to say anyone is going to Hell, because I can't possibly understand the depths of the riches of the wisdom and the knowledge of God. How unsearchable are His ways. Oh, how I love the Doxology!

 

[Free]

Re: OF course -

Of course you can -

Which is a GOOD thing, since NOBODY ever has, Nobody does now, and Nobody EVER WILL "Understand the trinity".

All you need to know to get saved is that you're a Hopeless sinner (Which the Holy Spirit will show you in living color when He CONVICTS you of your sin), and that Jesus (Whoever He is) is the ANSWER to that problem.

Then, of course you start to find out what happened - the Bible is a really GOOD source, along with Church, and Christian fellowship.

And you'll learn a bunch of stuff, and probably discard and RE-learn a bunch of stuff as well.

No biggie.

It is a biggie and here is why: belief in Jesus cannot be separated from the doctrine of Jesus. Who he is is absolutely central to salvation.

If someone merely believes what you, and others, have stated--that we just need to believe we're sinners and believe in Jesus and it doesn't matter who he is--then what if that person goes to a Mormon or JW church? What if they grow in an understanding of Jesus that contradicts the Bible?

Ultimate salvation depends on belief in Jesus as God.

Free,

I guess I was looking at this from the perspective of someone who either tries and can't come to an understanding of the Trinity OR someone who has not had the revelation of the Trinity. Personally, I'm Trinitarian through and through. But in a more extreme example, thinking of a tribal person in a remote region of the world who only has the revelation of Creation to acknowledge God. If he responds to this limited revelation with reverence for God, I believe he can have salvation, but this is all in the Wonderful Hands of the Lord.

To the person who struggles with it and can't comprehend it, I believe there can be Grace. Actually there can always be Grace. Who are we to say otherwise? The person who knows, can comprehend it and rejects it? In God's Hands. The Trinity is such a complicated notion to grasp, I guess I just have a problem with the belief that a concept that's not fully explainable even to a Trinitarian like myself, is outside of salvation looking in. I'm never one to say anyone is going to Hell, because I can't possibly understand the depths of the riches of the wisdom and the knowledge of God. How unsearchable are His ways. Oh, how I love the Doxology!

Don't get me wrong. I don't go so far as to say one must believe in the Trinity at the initial decision to follow Jesus but rather that a true Christian will come to believe in the triune nature of God. And I most certainly allow for the grace of God in dealing with those who, for one reason or another, do not have the capacity to understand it as others do. Everyone will differ in their ability to comprehend the mystery of the Trinity

 

[Mike]

Re: OF course -

It is a biggie and here is why: belief in Jesus cannot be separated from the doctrine of Jesus. Who he is is absolutely central to salvation.

If someone merely believes what you, and others, have stated--that we just need to believe we're sinners and believe in Jesus and it doesn't matter who he is--then what if that person goes to a Mormon or JW church? What if they grow in an understanding of Jesus that contradicts the Bible?

Ultimate salvation depends on belief in Jesus as God.



Don't get me wrong. I don't go so far as to say one must believe in the Trinity at the initial decision to follow Jesus but rather that a true Christian will come to believe in the triune nature of God. And I most certainly allow for the grace of God in dealing with those who, for one reason or another, do not have the capacity to understand it as others do. Everyone will differ in their ability to comprehend the mystery of the Trinity

Thanks, and don't get me wrong either! You know from past threads how passionate I can get when someone calls himself a Christian, but does not acknowledge the Divinity of Christ. When someone knows scripture enough to pour the the verses and attempt to use them to support their agenda of Jesus not being fully God, this is where I take real issue. I won't say they have no chance for salvation, but I would MUCH rather be on this side of the Truth than theirs.

 

[Elijah674]

We make way to much of what 'I' think as 'i' see it! Seed gets sown one way or another, but the Holy Spirit is the one STRIVING with it. Gen. 6:3 (all mankind)

And His Inspiration in Rom. 2:14-15 finds that many will be saved even without what we deem important. Yet, as one poster states we must & will be accountablr for what knowledge that God has given us! Hosea 4:6 & Dan. 12:4

And the ones of today?? We find another question answered for that in Rev. 3:16 for where even the exceedingly COLD are easier to reach than the 'lukewarm' of today who will be SPEWED out as sickening to Christ.

[yet, go read what these ones think of theirselves?]

--Elijah

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I'm a little disturbed that so many people here seem to think that you can be saved when you don't believe Jesus is God!

Who said anything about "not believing Jesus was God". The simple FACT is that for the "un-saved - they have NO REAL IDEA What/Who "God" even is. What they may or may not "give intellectual ascent" to is totally unimportant, and will be highly inaccurate anyway. Any INTELLECTUAL "Decision" one makes to become a Christian doesn't amount to a hill of beans - regardless of what "theological paradigm" he may hold at the time.

What's important is the "Conviction of SIN" which is the Work of the Holy Spirit in "drawing the sinner", The Spirit SHOWS the non-Christian What his REAL CONDITION before God is. And that's not "Theology" that's genuine "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" - and the BEGINNING of faith.

"Belief" is one theng, but "Faith" is something quite different, and is intrinsically God's GIFT to the repentant sinner.

"Theology" can be dealt with when one has the spiritual "eyes" to see and understand the Kingdom.

 

[farouk]

There is a New Testament verse which says: 'If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins'.

 

[Ashua]

If it were so important to believe in this trinity concept, you would think that Paul would have went into it in great detail a few times? The Gospels? Anything? Look how much work Paul did on the role of the Torah in regards to salvation and his great exegesis explaining the mechanics of redemption. Romans and Galatians are just two massive examples of this. Where is his epistle to the unitarians? All I am saying is if it was such a critical detail, we would have a much more bold proclamation of it within the Bible.

The pharisees and sadducces and essenes and so many other sects were hit and miss with their 1st century theology. When they would argue their cases to Christ saying "teacher, we say... But they say..." Even such things as questioning if there is life after death. Christ never took on an air of condemnation when dealing with people who had "honestly" bad interpretations of the Holy Scripture. He only reproved them. Paul is the poster boy for this.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief. -1 Timothy 1:13

Whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed and whosoever believes on Him (To justification) will not perish but inherit everlasting life.

 

[Ashua]

There is a New Testament verse which says: 'If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins'.

He can be interpreted many ways. He --the Messiah He -YHVH He- one third of the trinity. Many people say He is many things. As for me? I keep it simple. Let your yes be yes and your no be know sort of attitude:

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:15-17

If I bypass the whole trinity question and just proclaim this answer of Peter's which seemed good to Christ, am I condemned? I think not.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm a little disturbed that so many people here seem to think that you can be saved when you don't believe Jesus is God!

Who said anything about "not believing Jesus was God". The simple FACT is that for the "un-saved - they have NO REAL IDEA What/Who "God" even is. What they may or may not "give intellectual ascent" to is totally unimportant, and will be highly inaccurate anyway. Any INTELLECTUAL "Decision" one makes to become a Christian doesn't amount to a hill of beans - regardless of what "theological paradigm" he may hold at the time.

What's important is the "Conviction of SIN" which is the Work of the Holy Spirit in "drawing the sinner", The Spirit SHOWS the non-Christian What his REAL CONDITION before God is. And that's not "Theology" that's genuine "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" - and the BEGINNING of faith.

"Belief" is one theng, but "Faith" is something quite different, and is intrinsically God's GIFT to the repentant sinner.

"Theology" can be dealt with when one has the spiritual "eyes" to see and understand the Kingdom.

Amen.

 

[glorydaz]

If it were so important to believe in this trinity concept, you would think that Paul would have went into it in great detail a few times? The Gospels? Anything? Look how much work Paul did on the role of the Torah in regards to salvation and his great exegesis explaining the mechanics of redemption. Romans and Galatians are just two massive examples of this. Where is his epistle to the unitarians? All I am saying is if it was such a critical detail, we would have a much more bold proclamation of it within the Bible.

The pharisees and sadducces and essenes and so many other sects were hit and miss with their 1st century theology. When they would argue their cases to Christ saying "teacher, we say... But they say..." Even such things as questioning if there is life after death. Christ never took on an air of condemnation when dealing with people who had "honestly" bad interpretations of the Holy Scripture. He only reproved them. Paul is the poster boy for this.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief. -1 Timothy 1:13

Whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed and whosoever believes on Him (To justification) will not perish but inherit everlasting life.

I like this post. God is so much greater than man's ability to explain. The Trinity is a truth for many people, but the Oneness of the Godhead is just as true. Whether we say "manifestations" or "persons", it's clear from the Word that Jesus is God come in the flesh.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Elijah674]

I like this post. God is so much greater than man's ability to explain. The Trinity is a truth for many people, but the Oneness of the Godhead is just as true. Whether we say "manifestations" or "persons", it's clear from the Word that Jesus is God come in the flesh.

But there is an Eph. 4:5 Truth! I cannot see or believe that the 144000 living to see Christ come, do not have the 'full' Gospel of Christ as John penned. (2 John 1:9) Up to this time did all who are saved have all Truth? NO. But Rev. 18:4 & even in the first start of the Church we see prophesied in John 10:16 that this is true, and 'also' found these ones saved with their Sincere baby knowledge.

But we do also see their day & our day in Hosea 4:6 + Dan. 12:4. If not, then how could the Rev. 14:6-10 have an Everlasting Eternal Gospel to Teach to the World to finish Christ Work?

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

But there is an Eph. 4:5 Truth! I cannot see or believe that the 144000 living to see Christ come, do not have the 'full' Gospel of Christ as John penned. (2 John 1:9) Up to this time did all who are saved have all Truth? NO. But Rev. 18:4 & even in the first start of the Church we see prophesied in John 10:16 that this is true, and 'also' found these ones saved with their Sincere baby knowledge.

But we do also see their day & our day in Hosea 4:6 + Dan. 12:4. If not, then how could the Rev. 14:6-10 have an Everlasting Eternal Gospel to Teach to the World to finish Christ Work?

--Elijah

We'll certainly see more clearly when the Lord returns for His church.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Holly3278]

I definitely believe that a person can get or be saved without understanding the Trinity. I was about 12 or 13 when I was saved but yet I didn't fully understand the Trinity. I just knew that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all three God but yet they were only one God at the same time. I also knew that Jesus was both God and man. I know that I was saved then and am now.

 

[John Zain]

I'm curious to know what you think of this ...

3 types of believers:

1) CONVERTED -- believers in their mind/intellect only.

2) BORN AGAIN -- the Spirit comes INSIDE the person, and stays.

3) BAPTIZED WITH THE SPIRIT -- the Spirit comes UPON the person.

There are many verses which support what I've written in steps 2 & 3.

 

[Scotth1960]

I was saved at the age of 9 years old. And my whole life has had Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.

My question is, If I got saved without knowing or understanding clearly that Jesus is Almighty God.

Does that mean that salvation is based completely on excepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour.

Or does it meant that you can not be saved until you understand that Jesus is God and also except him as your Lord and saviour.

The Bible says: I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father except by me.

It wasn't until later I understood that Jesus was God. So does that mean I really wasn't saved in the first place or does that mean my salavation really didn't come to be until I did understand that fact.

Another words is salvation of understanding that Jesus is God a requirment to being saved?

The reason I bring this up is that Philip in John 14:8-9 didn't even understand that Jesus was God up until this point:

John 14:8-9 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

So here we see Philip didn't even know up until this point in time that Jesus was God the Father and yet it would seem Philip was saved already trusting in Jesus.

Another Question: Can a person get saved if they don't believe that Jesus is God. What if someone trust Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour but absolutly does not believe that Jesus is God.

If you answer that is imposible to be saved and believe that Jesus is not God then you have to say that a person can't be saved at all without the full understanding that Jesus is God.

You see my point,

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks,
Zotah

DEAR ZOTAH, NO HUMAN BEING CAN HOPE TO UNDERSTAND THE HOLY TRINITY. SIMPLY BELIEVE THERE ARE THREE DIVINE PERSONS, FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT, IN THE ONLY ONE GOD THERE IS. THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. GOD IS THREE HOLY PERSONS. THEY ARE NOT EACH OTHER, BUT THEY ARE IN EACH OTHER. TOGETHER, THEY ARE ONE GOD, ONE GODHEAD. THE HOLY TRINITY IS AN INCOMPREHENSIBLE MYSTERY THAT THE RATIONAL MIND CAN-NOT FATHOM. DON'T EVEN TRY. GOD BLESS YOU. IN ERIE PA SCOTTH1960

 

[Scotth1960]

I was saved at the age of 9 years old. And my whole life has had Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.

My question is, If I got saved without knowing or understanding clearly that Jesus is Almighty God.

Does that mean that salvation is based completely on excepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour.

Or does it meant that you can not be saved until you understand that Jesus is God and also except him as your Lord and saviour.

The Bible says: I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father except by me.

It wasn't until later I understood that Jesus was God. So does that mean I really wasn't saved in the first place or does that mean my salavation really didn't come to be until I did understand that fact.

Another words is salvation of understanding that Jesus is God a requirment to being saved?

The reason I bring this up is that Philip in John 14:8-9 didn't even understand that Jesus was God up until this point:

John 14:8-9 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

So here we see Philip didn't even know up until this point in time that Jesus was God the Father and yet it would seem Philip was saved already trusting in Jesus.

Another Question: Can a person get saved if they don't believe that Jesus is God. What if someone trust Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour but absolutly does not believe that Jesus is God.

If you answer that is imposible to be saved and believe that Jesus is not God then you have to say that a person can't be saved at all without the full understanding that Jesus is God.

You see my point,

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks,
Zotah

DEAR ZOTAH. YES A SOUL CAN BE SAVED WITHOUT FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE MYSTERY OF THE HOLY TRINITY. THE BIBLE SAYS, 'TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART, AND LEAN NOT UPON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING". UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING IS NOT POSSIBLE OR NECESSARY. ONLY BELIEVE IN GOD BE BAPTIZED IN THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH AND BRING FORTH GOOD WORKS WORTHY OF REPENTANCE. SCOTTH1960

 

[Hawkins]

I was saved at the age of 9 years old. And my whole life has had Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.

My question is, If I got saved without knowing or understanding clearly that Jesus is Almighty God.

Does that mean that salvation is based completely on excepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour.

Or does it meant that you can not be saved until you understand that Jesus is God and also except him as your Lord and saviour.

The Bible says: I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father except by me.

It wasn't until later I understood that Jesus was God. So does that mean I really wasn't saved in the first place or does that mean my salavation really didn't come to be until I did understand that fact.

Another words is salvation of understanding that Jesus is God a requirment to being saved?

The reason I bring this up is that Philip in John 14:8-9 didn't even understand that Jesus was God up until this point:

John 14:8-9 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

So here we see Philip didn't even know up until this point in time that Jesus was God the Father and yet it would seem Philip was saved already trusting in Jesus.

Another Question: Can a person get saved if they don't believe that Jesus is God. What if someone trust Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour but absolutly does not believe that Jesus is God.

If you answer that is imposible to be saved and believe that Jesus is not God then you have to say that a person can't be saved at all without the full understanding that Jesus is God.

You see my point,

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks,
Zotah

The Bible is not about how you will be marginally saved, but about how to best secure your salvation status. Believing in His Trinity is one of the good signs of God's acknowlegement about your salvation status. God simply told you who He is.

 

[Hawkins]

I was saved at the age of 9 years old. And my whole life has had Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour.

My question is, If I got saved without knowing or understanding clearly that Jesus is Almighty God.

Does that mean that salvation is based completely on excepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour.

Or does it meant that you can not be saved until you understand that Jesus is God and also except him as your Lord and saviour.

The Bible says: I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father except by me.

It wasn't until later I understood that Jesus was God. So does that mean I really wasn't saved in the first place or does that mean my salavation really didn't come to be until I did understand that fact.

Another words is salvation of understanding that Jesus is God a requirment to being saved?

The reason I bring this up is that Philip in John 14:8-9 didn't even understand that Jesus was God up until this point:

John 14:8-9 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

So here we see Philip didn't even know up until this point in time that Jesus was God the Father and yet it would seem Philip was saved already trusting in Jesus.

Another Question: Can a person get saved if they don't believe that Jesus is God. What if someone trust Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour but absolutly does not believe that Jesus is God.

If you answer that is imposible to be saved and believe that Jesus is not God then you have to say that a person can't be saved at all without the full understanding that Jesus is God.

You see my point,

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks,
Zotah

The Bible is not about how you will be marginally saved, but about how to best secure your salvation status. That's why you are asked to be baptised, you are asked to be holy. You are warned that just saying "O Lord O Lord" may not be able to best secure your salvation status.

Believing in His Trinity is one of the good signs of God's acknowlegement about your salvation status. God simply told you who He is.

Similarly, if your question is whether those who decided to turn to God at their last moment of life but without being baptised are the saved. Very possibly yes. Yet that by no means says that "those without being baptised can be saved". Hope that you can see the difference.