Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Can Love for the Bible Get in the Way of a Relationship with God?

Someone once told me that it was apparant that I had a respect and love for God's Word but they could not tell that I had a relationship with God. When asked why they responded by saying that I was too practical and that I relied too much on book, chapter, and verse and didn't approach life with enough passion and emotion to really live it the way God intended.

In a nutshell I was told that I needed to do more feeling with my spirit than thinking with my head. At that time I believed that it was the Spirit that caused me to do so much thinking and rationalization. To me everything had to fit or make sense before if could be acceptable. I have struggled with getting by the 'by the book' mentality that's been instilled in me from childhood to the point where I have often believed that if it was not in the book, it couldn't be of God.

All that said, my question is this: Where is the point of that fine line between loving the God spoken of in the Bible and making the Bible that tells of God your god?
 
That point i would think is not the same for each of us.

I am not the same Christian i was 50 40 30 20 years ago . His Word is what it is words on paper or today a screen.... He on the other hand is the Living Word .. It is knowing Him that brings that written Word to life...

I do believe the things of life that are of God will be witnessed in His Word. This extreme example.. If some guy got spit out of a big fish and started preaching we can find witness to that....

When we rely on our brain, our learning, we are not relying on Him. Saul was well versed in the Word. I always guess he could quote just about all that was written at the time, his mind was full of knowledge.... When Saul let go, when he surrendered God wrote the Word in his heart/spirit.
 
That point i would think is not the same for each of us.

I am not the same Christian i was 50 40 30 20 years ago . His Word is what it is words on paper or today a screen.... He on the other hand is the Living Word .. It is knowing Him that brings that written Word to life...

I do believe the things of life that are of God will be witnessed in His Word. This extreme example.. If some guy got spit out of a big fish and started preaching we can find witness to that....

When we rely on our brain, our learning, we are not relying on Him. Saul was well versed in the Word. I always guess he could quote just about all that was written at the time, his mind was full of knowledge.... When Saul let go, when he surrendered God wrote the Word in his heart/spirit.
[MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION]:

It's remarkable how many times the Psalmist refers to meditating in the word or the law, etc. in Psalm 119, in its many sections.

Today, Christians show they are people of the Book when they 'mark, read and inwardly digest' it.

Blessings.
 
It's remarkable how many times the Psalmist refers to meditating in the word or the law, etc. in Psalm 119, in its many sections.

Interesting factoid of the day - Depending on which translation you use, there are about 10 words used in Psalm 119 to refer to the law (law, word, command, judgments, etc.) This longest chapter in the Bible has 176 verses, and every one of them contains one of these parallel words, except one.

Totally boring assignment for the day - Find the verse in Psalm 119 that doesn't have any reference to the law
The TOG
 
It's remarkable how many times the Psalmist refers to meditating in the word or the law, etc. in Psalm 119, in its many sections.

Interesting factoid of the day - Depending on which translation you use, there are about 10 words used in Psalm 119 to refer to the law (law, word, command, judgments, etc.) This longest chapter in the Bible has 176 verses, and every one of them contains one of these parallel words, except one.

Totally boring assignment for the day - Find the verse in Psalm 119 that doesn't have any reference to the law
The TOG
[MENTION=96759]TOG[/MENTION]|:

I would also understand the term law there as approximating word or precept.

(Some folk almost turn the covenantal law into a replacement for the Gospel, which is not right.)

Blessings.
 
It's remarkable how many times the Psalmist refers to meditating in the word or the law, etc. in Psalm 119, in its many sections.

Interesting factoid of the day - Depending on which translation you use, there are about 10 words used in Psalm 119 to refer to the law (law, word, command, judgments, etc.) This longest chapter in the Bible has 176 verses, and every one of them contains one of these parallel words, except one.

Totally boring assignment for the day - Find the verse in Psalm 119 that doesn't have any reference to the law
The TOG
[MENTION=96759]TOG[/MENTION]|:

I would also understand the term law there as approximating word or precept.

(Some folk almost turn the covenantal law into a replacement for the Gospel, which is not right.)

Blessings.

I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion of the validity of the law for Gentile Christians. I think it's obvious, though, that King David lived quite a while before Christ and when he talked bout God's word or His judgments, he was talking about the law given at Mt. Sinai.
The TOG
 
Can Love for the Bible Get in the Way of a Relationship with God?

Hi ToT, I'm glad that you asked that question. I never had experienced a problem with this subject until I became dissatisfied with all the different translations of the Bible. In fact, today my son called me and asked me to pray for him so he could find a Bible that God would pick as His favorite translation for this period of time. Wow, that's a tall order. It seems that he and I don't like the fact that one translation will say one thing and another will interpret that verse to say something else, I can't think of an example right now but you get the idea right?
OK, back to a problem that recently came up. After giving an amount of time reviewing my translations, I purchased a paperback copy of the ESV study Bible. I was so impressed with a statement "The ESV Bible is an essentially literal translation" combined with the study notes, is the most comprehensive study Bible ever published. After studying it, for a time, I decided to purchase a leather bound edition. I picked the best one, glove soft leather, and it's by far the best Bible I've ever owned. I began to love this Bible. Time went on and one day I looked at this Bible and thought, is this an idol in my life? I shouldn't feel the way I feel about this Bible! For some reason I was growing deeper in love with God through the use of this Bible and It seemed easy to view it as something that it was not. I spoke to the Lord about it, and He changed my mind right away. I do like this ASV very much but don't "love" it.....Make any sense?
 
In a nutshell I was told that I needed to do more feeling with my spirit than thinking with my head. At that time I believed that it was the Spirit that caused me to do so much thinking and rationalization. To me everything had to fit or make sense before if could be acceptable. I have struggled with getting by the 'by the book' mentality that's been instilled in me from childhood to the point where I have often believed that if it was not in the book, it couldn't be of God.

All that said, my question is this: Where is the point of that fine line between loving the God spoken of in the Bible and making the Bible that tells of God your god?

From my observations of you (Not saying I have anything figured out) This dogged tenaciousness for every scripture to line up, have zero contradictions, and everything have to be exactly as the Word says it is something that I greatly respect. I don't agree with you on a lot of things however but it's only because of What I see in the word, but at the same time can't argue you natural view point because it's exactly what the scripture does say.

To me that is a great strength and only something God put in you. I would not change that.

So then does this mentality cause us to miss something going by the letter?

Let's get honest here though, I have read lots of post and most have not even figured out that God's Word is perfect and never contradicts anywhere. So your situation is very unique.

Look at Isa 14 and Eze 28....... We talking about Satan here, something spiritual who run the kingdoms or we talking about human kings here? If I were to just read it as a book then we are talking about human kings here but the Word is spiritually discerned. If you plug Satan in, both fit, but only one is right or they both right telling two sides?

Someone that knows God would tell you right away that our God did not send Satan off to Murder Job's children. Can't be possible as it contradicts so many other scriptures. Job was given a right to choose death or life. Had to be Job's fault. We have no other example of God doing that to anyone that served him yet others take the book of Job as it's own book without the rest of the Word.

Our Father in Heaven never treats anyone that way, not those that serve him.

One has to ask what our relationship with God means when it comes to understanding scripture then. We read it by the letter or with relationship? Do we need both?

All that said, my question is this: Where is the point of that fine line between loving the God spoken of in the Bible and making the Bible that tells of God your god?

Psa_138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

That may not be the right question.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I think the question is, are we seeking after the Anointing to understand the Word, or the Word to get a grip on what the anointing is?


Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
2Pe_1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe_2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Seek after the knowledge of the anointing of the Lord Jesus Christ (The anointed one and his anointing) The knowledge of him.

To be honest, until I was filled with the Holy Spirit and finally received the gift of tongues, all I had was my own head understanding to put together scriptures. There is power in the Word.

Blessings.

Mike.
 
"Can Love for the Bible Get in the Way of a Relationship with God? "

Did the Pharisees love the law more than God?



This is the risk of a works-centered religion. But it can infiltrate a faith based belief as well.
Don't get me wrong here. My mother raised me with do-s and don't-s but that was tempered with love. I can indeed point out a sin but I must understand that I too possess a sinful nature in the flesh. And I suppose even that point could be debated and has been.

If I truly love somebody in the spirit of God then how can I stand idly by while that person moves further from Christ?
And we, as humans, have a propensity toward loving the self therefore the above also applies to ourselves.

It's a delicate balance, we pray for wisdom to keep things properly in line with our commission and our faith.
 
"Can Love for the Bible Get in the Way of a Relationship with God? "

Did the Pharisees love the law more than God?



This is the risk of a works-centered religion. But it can infiltrate a faith based belief as well.
Don't get me wrong here. My mother raised me with do-s and don't-s but that was tempered with love. I can indeed point out a sin but I must understand that I too possess a sinful nature in the flesh. And I suppose even that point could be debated and has been.

If I truly love somebody in the spirit of God then how can I stand idly by while that person moves further from Christ?
And we, as humans, have a propensity toward loving the self therefore the above also applies to ourselves.

It's a delicate balance, we pray for wisdom to keep things properly in line with our commission and our faith.

"Not the labor of my hand
Can fulfill Thy law's command,
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears for ever flow,
All for sin could not atone,
Thou must save, and Thou alone."

Blessings.
 
The Holy Spirit will bear witness with our spirit and reveal truths to us, whereas our legalism, rationalism, intellect, reason and so forth will lead us into making the bible God rather than the true living God God.


One has to ask what our relationship with God means when it comes to understanding scripture then. We read it by the letter or with relationship? Do we need both?


To be clear, it seems that you all are saying that without the decoder ring that is the Spirit of God, one has no hope of having the Bible's meanings revealed to them. Any hope of actually getting it is foolish unless they bring certain presuppositions to the table that will act as a sort of roadmap for interpreting what one reads. So what of reading it with a blank slate and an open mind? Must a person believe certain things about God firsr and then as they read the Bible try to fit what they read around the 'givens' about 'their God' they presummed prior to engaging in in depth study?
 
The Holy Spirit will bear witness with our spirit and reveal truths to us, whereas our legalism, rationalism, intellect, reason and so forth will lead us into making the bible God rather than the true living God God.


One has to ask what our relationship with God means when it comes to understanding scripture then. We read it by the letter or with relationship? Do we need both?


To be clear, it seems that you all are saying that without the decoder ring that is the Spirit of God, one has no hope of having the Bible's meanings revealed to them. Any hope of actually getting it is foolish unless they bring certain presuppositions to the table that will act as a sort of roadmap for interpreting what one reads. So what of reading it with a blank slate and an open mind? Must a person believe certain things about God firsr and then as they read the Bible try to fit what they read around the 'givens' about 'their God' they presummed prior to engaging in in depth study?

Hebrews 11.6
 
"Not the labor of my hand
Can fulfill Thy law's command,
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears for ever flow,
All for sin could not atone,
Thou must save, and Thou alone."

Blessings.


Job 40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
Job 40:10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.
Job 40:11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
Job 40:12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
Job 40:13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
 
To be clear, it seems that you all are saying that without the decoder ring that is the Spirit of God, one has no hope of having the Bible's meanings revealed to them. Any hope of actually getting it is foolish unless they bring certain presuppositions to the table that will act as a sort of roadmap for interpreting what one reads. So what of reading it with a blank slate and an open mind? Must a person believe certain things about God firsr and then as they read the Bible try to fit what they read around the 'givens' about 'their God' they presummed prior to engaging in in depth study?


Just a lay persons opinion.

Jesus came to save the sinners not the righteous. Seems to me God would write His word so that the sinner could understand it if the desire of his heart was it understand God, Jesus the Anointed Redeemer, His Cross (His work on at the cross), His resurrection. The Gospel of grace and faith.

If God can reveal Himself to someone anywhere, any time, any place He chooses why couldn't or wouldn't He reveal His word to anyone, anywhere, any time, any place He chooses.

Matthew 7:7-8 NASB
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

9 Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?

I don't think God ever serves up stone soup to a hungry seeker but provides him with the bread of life.

No secret formula.... just ask, seek, knock....

If you were reading a book on say quantum physics and you had access to the author of the book, would you make use of that access. You have that access to the author of the Bible.
 
To be clear, it seems that you all are saying that without the decoder ring that is the Spirit of God, one has no hope of having the Bible's meanings revealed to them. Any hope of actually getting it is foolish unless they bring certain presuppositions to the table that will act as a sort of roadmap for interpreting what one reads. So what of reading it with a blank slate and an open mind? Must a person believe certain things about God firsr and then as they read the Bible try to fit what they read around the 'givens' about 'their God' they presummed prior to engaging in in depth study?

It's very hard to say to a Person "The Lord showed it to me" Especially a person who has no concept of spending long hours praying in tongues and Operating in the anointing. Anyone can say the Lord showed this and that. People use the name of the Lord all the time to put some authority to prove their right. So, I don't do that, I expound with scriptures as the Lord is not showing us new revelation that is not in the Word.

So what happens is the Word is understood in a natural way, not what the Spirit can do or what faith can do.

If you believe on Jesus, they shall speak with New Tongues.

Well, when we get saved, we don't curse as much and God and we start speaking the gospel which is foolish to the World.

That statement is true (For Most) You can't really argue with that much. As a new believer our life should start showing some fruit and our conversation should change.

I read it with the rest of the supernatural things Jesus said. Lay hands on the sick and they recover, cast out devils. New tongues is speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit a language we don't understand a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Who can understand the Word but that God reveal it to us?

When Jesus carried the Sword was it a real Sword or the Word? If the Word then do we just understand it to be a Sword or do we understand it to be a powerful weapon against Satan, a Weapon when used that can change physical circumstances?

Or just means a sword is the Word and that is about it?

You have a great gift to having the Word be right and everything line up. Many who claim God said this or that hear the wrong things and put what they hear, what the want to hear above the Word and it leads to error.

That won't happen to you, because like me if an Angel or the Lord shows up to say something we do not understand our first response would be to say, "No disrespect Lord, but show me in the Word this Truth."

Like the Angel that showed up to the Pastor who was sick and said, "It's not The Lord's will to heal you." He accepted that, the experience was more real than the Word to him. By his stripes we are healed and God is not respecter of persons. Satan is the master of Twisting what God said, telling Eve surely God did not say................... Yes God did say you will die eating the fruit.

The word is spiritually discerned, seek the Holy Spirit, ask about these tongues. I would not tell you wrong Brother because with your respect of the Word, you can do great things.

No secret formula.... just ask, seek, knock....

If you were reading a book on say quantum physics and you had access to the author of the book, would you make use of that access. You have that access to the author of the Bible.

Yes, ask....................... a must to knock and seek even if it looks plain and simple what the scripture says, there is always something much more there than what we can see on our own efforts.


Hebrews 11.6

Short but what can you say?? It's true, the Word must be read by faith. I take it as instruction to me and if Jesus said that nothing by any means shall hurt me, then no matter the weapon formed I believe it.

Mike.
 
Back
Top