Can We Interchange The Word God In The Bible With Spirit

[zotah]

Cornelius, We've sure stured it up in the forum.

Anyway, to answered your questions would not help me understand what exactly you believe. I'm not telling you anymore what I believe. I've excepted that fact we're not going to convince each other of anything. But I am asking you to tell me what you believe. If your willing to do that. I've copy and pasted my questions to you in the best way I know how. If you don't want to answer these questions, then I understand and I'll leave it at that. But you have a great opportunity to share with me and everyone on this forum exactly what you do believe. You mostly know what I believe already. I believe right down the line of Fundimental Baptist (Trinity). And if you want to debate that, no problem, however I'm giving you full chance to tell me in your own words why you believe and what you believe.

Thanks,
Zotah

Again here is a copy of what I wrote you before. Please respond to all these questions. I'd appreciate it.


Hi Cornelius,

Like you said before, we both agree to disagree. What I'm hearing from you is (why) you believe what you believe and my problem is that I just whated to know what you believe. I'm fasinated by what you believe, maybe because it's seems from my perspective to be a double contratiction and It's like a puzzle for me trying to figure out how exactly what you beiieve God's essence is. So I'll break down your last reply and maybe see if I can try to figure it out again. (I did get a little more light on what you believe ths time but I'm still confused. (I'll keep asking and try to nail it down until I get it) And then we're done ok>)

And by the way, I'm hoping you don't give up on me explaining this because I think it's important that we both explain God to each other and Others out there for people asking us. Also, by doing this it will help you explain God to others in a more clear way as well. When you try to explain God to other people on this chat room too.

If someone ask for a definition of God I believe it is our responsiblity to tell others as a witness to the whole world Who our God is and What he is. I believe, we all have a duty as christians to explain God to anyone who ask. Don't you agree?

And I'm asking,

So here is what you said,

You said: Maybe we could change it around and you explain to me what it means to "come forth".

Zotah said: If you could do me a favor and ask me questions after I understand what your saying God is.
I'd be glad to answer every question you ask, and I will. But I was hoping that you could get me too a point of understanding what you believe, which I'm not yet sure. Once I understand what you believe exactly then if you want to debate our differences. I'd be glad too and if you want to quit that's ok too. But at this exact point in time I don't even know exactly what you believe yet so me to answer your questions would be futile because I don't know from what perspcetive your coming from, When it comes to understanding the essence of God and who God is:

You Said: So to take a human example. Explain to me (yourself) what would it mean, when the doctor at a birth says to the father of the child, "Your baby came forth at 4 am " (I know they don't use those words, but they could and it would mean the same thing )

Zotah said: Again before I answer this and go round and a round on a debate of answers and questions, please help me understand your definition of God Exactly.

You said:Where was the baby before it "came forth"?

Zotah said: This is the reason I don't understand your definition of God. By me answering this right now does not help me understand your definition of God. All this question does is confuse me more on what you really believe. Could you draft out exactly what's behind your believe in even asking me this.

Zotah said: Simply just answer this for me. When you say "came forth" Are you saying then that you believe that Jesus "came forth"? meaning that before he came forth he was Not Jesus before he came forth. And if that is what you believe then explain that in more detail in your own words so I can make since of it. Every time I guess what you believe I'm wrong. So this is why I keep asking you over and over again.

Zotah said: Remember, you said it yourself. Debating this back and forth isn't going to help either one of us. Because I think we're both pretty stong in our convictions of what we believe. However, If I ask you what you believe without debating you on what I believe I think we both can become winners in this.
Maybe after all this we find out we believe exactly the same way. But I will never know unless you can articulate your belief to me in a better way.

You said: Was there a "moment" that you would be able to put your finger on and say" It happened exactly at 4:20 and ten seconds" ?

Zotah said: Good point if I understood what your believe is on God's essence.

You said: Do you think that would be accurate linguistically to understand "come forth" as the moment something or somebody changes position ?

Zotah said: Yes

You wrote: Verb 1. come forth - come out of; "Water issued from the hole in the wall"; "The words seemed to come out by themselves"

Zotah said: Yes I understand this.

You wrote: 2. come forth - happen or occur as a result of something
emerge

Zotah said: Yes I understand this too.


You wrote: arise, originate, spring up, uprise, develop, grow, rise - come into existence; take on form or shape;

Zotah said: Sounds clear to me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for (I came forth) (Into existence) and am come from God; (through Mary) for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.

Zotah said: I think I figured out (one part) of our problem. It's the version of the Bible we're using. I can't figure out what version your using. Let me quote different versions and you can tell me what version your using.

John 8:42 (King James Version) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for (I proceeded) forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sen me.

John 8:42 (New King James Version) Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me. for (I proceeded forth) and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

John 8:42 (New International Version) Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own: but he sent me:

John 8:42 (New World Translation) Jesus said to them: If God were YOUR Father, You would love me, from God (I came forth) and am here. Neither have I come of my onw initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.

Zotah said: You have a bible almost identical to the (New World Translatin) One I've never seen before.
Now I understand where the confussion is coming from between us. We have 2 different Bibles so we have 2 differnet believes.

Zotah said: What Bible are you using?

You said: He is not created, like God created the earth. He "came forth" from God. That is why He was WITH God and because They are the same, He IS God. But He is the Word OF God too. Manifested.

Zotah said: I'm glad I finally got you to say that Jesus was not created. However, your belief is all based around the words "came forth" doesn't it strick you that all the other versions of the Bible except the (New World Translation) says "I came from God" or "I proceeded forth" Do you see: different words can change everything.

Your said: There was never a time that Truth was not. Truth has always been the reason why God is. If all things disappear only Truth cannot be destroyed and God will be there still. His Word is Truth, and at some stage the Father spoke for the first time and Truth manifested. It "came forth" and Jesus was because He IS He is the I AM. Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

Zotah said: So I'm understanding a little more why your believing this way and I appreciate you opening up to me.

Zotah said: So please tell me what version your using of the Bible and let me know in your own words exactly what Jesus was before he came forth.

Thanks,
Zotah

End of copied tread

 

[Cornelius]

I use to be a Baptist too at one time in my walk But then the pastor started speaking in tongues and God started healing people left right and center and then we got kicked out of the Baptist Union.

Anyway, its after midnight where I live so I am off to bed for now. Talk to you later.
blessings
C

 

[hisbeloved]

I have spoken to a Baptist Paster about this question and I was surprised to hear what he had to say and it came from this scripture.

John 20:17 (KJV)

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I believe in the Trinity of God. That God is Jesus, God is Holy Spirit and God is the Father.

These are all the names and duties of all the same (one) God. For there are not 3 Gods but only One God all playing a role in time and space and outside of time and space all having multiple purposes and multiple titles.

So my question is what is wrong with interchanging the word God with the word Holy Spirit or Spirit of God.

If God and Spirit are exactly the samething. Then what's wrong with calling God..... Spirit or calling Jesus.... God or calling.... The Father Spirit or calling God any of the 3 role names of Father.... Son.... Holy Spirit.

So for example If I were to say

John 21:17

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

and then interchange the word God here to the word Spirit or Spirit of God. Then the understanding of this verse would read.

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my Spirit, and your God.

Simple interchange the word. From God, to Spirit.

The reason I'm confused about this is that I'm told in Trinity belief that God is a Spirit and Jesus is God and the Father is Jesus and so on.

But when I apply that thinking to real truth. I've been told that it's wrong to change the word of God and to not change scripture at the interchanging of these words.

So, If I'm not able to interchange these 2 words. Then why am I told that God is a Spirit but yet still the same God.

So to simplify my question.

Can I interchange the Word God with the word Spirit or Spirit of God. When I read John 20:17 and if I can't then explain to me why not? and how then can we teach everywhere else that In fact God is a Spirit in

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I want to make my position very clear. I'm not saying I want to go out there and rewrite the Bible or anything. In Fact it I were looking for the best word in this verse John 21:17, I would agree that the word God would be the best choice word to place here in this verse John 21:17.

However, I would read God as Spirit in my own understanding of the interpretation of this verse to help me understand it better, only in thought of interpretation only and not in changing any typed word in the Bible.

Please comment about this question only and not on the understanding of Trinity.

I understand Trinity so please don't try to define it for me. I'd appreciate that. However please comment on this thought of interchanging God with Spirit in this way.

Thanks,
Zotah

I could open a can of worms here,but I won't.
well maybe a little... ;),

I saw your request about not defining the trinity,but I don't think what I am about to say is quite what you were talking about so forgive more for some defining please. First remember God is a spirit and God is holy, (set that aside for a minute) and let's go for a walk,shall we?

In the trinity doctrine,it teaches that you have God the father being the first person of the trinity and God the son the 2nd and the Holy spirit is the third person of the trinity, so here we see three parts, or roles as you put it above, right?

we see a distinction when we talk about roles, meaning that the father is called the father ,and the Holy Spirit is called the Holy Spirit, not the father,right?

But if the trinity doctrine is true then that means that Jesus had two fathers.

one who is called the father and one who actually is the father

Because the one who impregnates the women is the father,right?
well the holy spirit was the one who impreganted Mary, but the trinity says that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity, But the one they God the father is the one they call the father of Jesus, right?

so according to the precepts and laws of how the trinity works,
we have the Holy Spirt who was actually the father of Jesus,then we have one who is called the father who is not in reality the father, that is,if they are three distinct persons of the trinity,like you said they all have different roles.

this is just a long way of saying, yes you can call God the spirit,
because there is one God,and before he was seperated into three persons by the trinity doctrine,way back in the old testament, we find that God is holy and God is a spirit so therefore God is the one and only Holy Spirit,the same who impreganted Mary, which makes The Holy Spirit the father and not a third person of the trinity.








oh, I have more cans where that one come from.or apple carts to turn over if you rather.