Catholic argument against sola scriptura refuted. Willing and able to take on his replacements

[Alfred Persson]

Purgatory is not extra Biblical.

I agree, sort of.

There is purgation for the "undetermined" ("Middle People"), people who go to hell without Christ. The gospel is preached to them in Hades, but they will pay for sin and be purged of all that diminishes their ability to accept the Gospel of Christ preached to them, to enable them to choose to live according to God in the Spirit:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

There is no purgatory for believers, who have passed from death into life: they go immediately into the presence of the LORD upon death of the body, saved to the uttermost, just like the Thief on the Cross:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (2 Cor. 5:8 NKJ)

Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. (Heb. 7:25 NKJ)

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)

 

[Mungo]

I agree, sort of.

There is purgation for the "undetermined" ("Middle People"), people who go to hell without Christ. The gospel is preached to them in Hades, but they will pay for sin and be purged of all that diminishes their ability to accept the Gospel of Christ preached to them, to enable them to choose to live according to God in the Spirit:

For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6 NKJ)

There is no purgatory for believers, who have passed from death into life: they go immediately into the presence of the LORD upon death of the body, saved to the uttermost, just like the Thief on the Cross:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. (2 Cor. 5:8 NKJ)

Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. (Heb. 7:25 NKJ)

And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)

Wrong again.
But then we have been through all of this before. No point in repeating it all.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Wrong again.
But then we have been through all of this before. No point in repeating it all.

Yes, we have and I am still right. If anything, I've strengthened my argument:

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Why not get on board for the Big Win?

 

[Mungo]

Yes, we have and I am still right. If anything, I've strengthened my argument:

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Why not get on board for the Big Win?

You didn't have an argument worth anything.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You didn't have an argument worth anything.

That is wrong wrong wrong. Its worth zillions! Especially if a loved one departed without Christ, its worth everything to be assured (the bible tells us so!) that God is in control and He is merciful.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You didn't have an argument worth anything.

I'm curious why you use the RSV and not the New American Bible, which is a great translation even though it used the inferior eclectic texts, as did the RSV.

 

[Paul Timothy]

That is wrong wrong wrong. Its worth zillions! Especially if a loved one departed without Christ, its worth everything to be assured (the bible tells us so!) that God is in control and He is merciful.

Where dies the Bible say the assurance of a loved one is worth everything?

Who died in your life without coming to Christ?

What caused you all this pain?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Where dies the Bible say the assurance of a loved one is worth everything?

Who died in your life without coming to Christ?

What caused you all this pain?

I said it, and its true.

You're looking for something that isn't there. I wouldn't change God's truth for anything:

37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. (Matt. 10:37-38 NKJ)

 

[Paul Timothy]

I said it, and its true.

I ask for a Biblical reference and you say "it's true because I said it is true".
Weakest argument ever.

You're looking for something that isn't there. I wouldn't change God's truth for anything:

But like a dog with a bone you show there is some personal connection to this topic deeper than just "truth".

37 "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. (Matt. 10:37-38 NKJ)

I see no point in this Biblical reference that relates to my questions.
If you don't want to answer me... just say so.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I ask for a Biblical reference and you say "it's true because I said it is true".
Weakest argument ever.

But like a dog with a bone you show there is some personal connection to this topic deeper than just "truth".

I see no point in this Biblical reference that relates to my questions.
If you don't want to answer me... just say so.

I did answer. I precisely answered all of your questions. I took the time. But there is a time for everything, and perhaps the time for answering the user with two names, is past.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I did answer. I precisely answered all of your questions. I took the time. But there is a time for everything, and perhaps the time for answering the user with two names, is past.

You provided no place in the Bible that states that "its worth everything to be assured".
I did not see any answers to my questions.
Maybe you should try to communicate a bit clearer.
That would be appreciated.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You provided no place in the Bible that states that "its worth everything to be assured".
I did not see any answers to my questions.
Maybe you should try to communicate a bit clearer.
That would be appreciated.

 

[Paul Timothy]

That is not an answer... but you are free to laugh.

 

[Manonfire63]

Purgatory is not extra Biblical.

Purgatory is extra Biblical in the Protestant Bible.

Article: https://www.compellingtruth.org/purgatory.html

That is what many protestant have believed.

Purgatory looks a lot like Abraham's Bosom. Abraham's Bosom was a belief around the time of Jesus. Heaven is oneness with God. Abraham's Bosom would be the better part of the afterlife like a Divine Comedy.

 

[Manonfire63]

I'm a hermit also, Christ's kingdom my focus. I pray God grant I depart a flaming light on a hill, so more go to Christ.

I'm not big on Protestantism, in some ways I prefer Eastern Orthodox. Catholics aren't all bad, I'm sure our heavenly Father won't cast away anyone who calls on the name of the LORD.

Funny, I once thought Billy Graham was too friendly with Catholics, no longer.

Martin Luther is a case in point, at first great but in later life, antisemite who said hateful things. Incredible when one knows:

salvation is of the Jews. (Jn. 4:22 NKJ)

Our Lord, His disciples, the prophets...all Jews! Paul says believers are Jews on the inside.

Catholicism saddens me, it could have been so much more. But same can be said about everyone, including me.

I sometimes leap before I look, I confused you with a Catholic against sola scriptura and didn't have time to read your entire post.

To me, sola scripture is Obeying God not men. But I understand many feel the need for someone to guide them, the Bible way to salvation is very easy to understand, but there are things that require diligent study and that isn't "the easy way." Many want things to be easy. Or they don't trust themselves, so they rely on others.

We should remember Christ's words when looking for spiritual direction. He identified the only thing false prophets cannot duplicate.... obedience to God..."Lawfulness":

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matt. 7:13-23 NKJ)

We seemed to have been going through some similar thought processes.

I suppose I received a calling around the age of 30, and started experiencing God. I was at a point where in my life where I just didn't care. Not caring, I was teachable. Experiencing God, and the Spiritual, I ended up more closer to a Traditional Catholic Mystic, without being one.

I looked into Orthodoxy for awhile. I have been on Reddit. Part of my morning ritual, like reading the news, I would check on /r/OrthodoxChristianity. I learned a lot. They have their issues as well.

 

[Mungo]

Purgatory is extra Biblical in the Protestant Bible.

Article: https://www.compellingtruth.org/purgatory.html

That is what many protestant have believed.

Purgatory looks a lot like Abraham's Bosom. Abraham's Bosom was a belief around the time of Jesus. Heaven is oneness with God. Abraham's Bosom would be the better part of the afterlife like a Divine Comedy.

You really don't understand the Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory.
You should try finding out what the Catholic Church actually teaches on this rather than relying on some Protestant site for your information.
It has nothing to do with Abraham's bosom.
It can be argued from scripture without Maccabees.

As Bob Dylan sang "Don't criticize what you don't understand" (Times They Are A Changing)

 

[Mungo]

That is wrong wrong wrong. Its worth zillions! Especially if a loved one departed without Christ, its worth everything to be assured (the bible tells us so!) that God is in control and He is merciful.

Wrong again.

 

[Mungo]

I'm curious why you use the RSV and not the New American Bible, which is a great translation even though it used the inferior eclectic texts, as did the RSV.

I'm not impressed by the NAB.

 

[Manonfire63]

You really don't understand the Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory.
You should try finding out what the Catholic Church actually teaches on this rather than relying on some Protestant site for your information.
It has nothing to do with Abraham's bosom.

You should try finding out what the Catholic Church actually teaches

As Bob Dylan sang "Don't criticize what you don't understand" (Times They Are A Changing)

Lets look at some of your particular statements here:

"You really don't understand the Catholic Doctrine of Purgatory."

"You should try finding out what the Catholic Church actually teaches"

You are calling me ignorant, and trying to assert authority; yet, your title is Catholic Overseer. All you did was call me ignorant without citing anything. It could be that your were projecting your own ignorance, and jumping to some conclusions.

It can be argued from scripture without Maccabees.

Show me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Wrong again.

Is it wrong to suppose, if you teleported back in time to The First Council of Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik, Turkey) in AD 325, with your modern Catholic dogmas, they would brand you a heretic.

But if I teleported with you, I'd be welcomed as an Orthodox Christian Brother. (This was before they became mad with icons).