Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bible

[Heidi]

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says. But the beliefs of catholics, however, are based on what is not said in the bible. Examples are;

1) Claiming mary was sinless all her life
2) Claiming that Mary was born sinless
3) Claiming that Mary was a virgin all her life
4) Claiming that we should call our priests "Father."
5) Claiming that all popes come from God including those who murdered and sold forgiveness for financial gain
6) Claiming that we're supposed to erect statues of created things, bow down and worship them
7) Claiming that we're supposed to pray to Jesus's mother
8) Claiming that Mary conveys her prayers to Jesus
9) Claiming that eating store-bought bread is the way to salvation
10) Claiming that store-bought bread replaces Jesus as a life-giving source
11) Claiming that clergy should wear pointy hats in church

All of the above are not in the bible anywhere and in most cases, contradict the bible. So it is a made-up gospel that are, as Jesus says; "Teachings that are but rules taught by men."

So again, true Christians honor what is in the bible, not what is not in the bible like the catholics do. The latter is what all cults do, including the Gnostics. But arguing with catholics is as useless as arguing with the Muslims who also change the bible to make it say what they want, which is probably why the pope kissed the Koran. ;-)

 

[ZeroTX]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

 

[Heidi]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

2 Corinthians 11:4-15 and Galatians 1:9. So no wonder catholic beliefs aren't based on what they bible says. They don't even know the bible! :roll:

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

2 Corinthians 11:4-15 and Galatians 1:9. So no wonder catholic beliefs aren't based on what they bible says. They don't even know the bible! :roll:

: These verses say nothing about the content of the Gospel or what the True Christian is supposed to believe! All they say is to hold onto the Traditions given to them. One would have to read elsewhere to get the CONTENT of Paul's teachings! (to the Thessalonians, Paul tells them to hold the oral teachings, too. Why don't you?).

Regards

 

[Heidi]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

2 Corinthians 11:4-15 and Galatians 1:9. So no wonder catholic beliefs aren't based on what they bible says. They don't even know the bible! :roll:

: These verses say nothing about the content of the Gospel or what the True Christian is supposed to believe! All they say is to hold onto the Traditions given to them. One would have to read elsewhere to get the CONTENT of Paul's teachings! (to the Thessalonians, Paul tells them to hold the oral teachings, too. Why don't you?).

Regards

Sorry but you're changing the bible again. Paul doesn't use the word "tradition" and you know it. So you think it's saying that we're supposed to preach a different Jesus than the one they preached. Is that correct? :o If so, then please give verses for that notion. I have provided verse that tell us not to preach a different Jesus which you are blatanly contradicting. And your contradictions aren't even subtle! :roll:

But here is what Paul says about tradition in Colossians 2:8, "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." And I'm seeing to it that no one takes me captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy that depends on human tradition. I see that you are already held captive by them yourself. :

 

[ZeroTX]

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!" Galatians 1:8-9 (NASB)

1) What do you think Paul meant when he said the "gospel" that "we have preached to you."? Do you think he meant the written gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John?... "preached" sure sounds like an oral teaching, to me.

2) Again, I ask you, where does the bible explicitly or implicitly back up your statement: "The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says." Where is it implied or stated that true Christians are to believe ONLY what the Bible says?

-Michael

 

[Heidi]

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!" Galatians 1:8-9 (NASB)

1) What do you think Paul meant when he said the "gospel" that "we have preached to you."? Do you think he meant the written gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John?... "preached" sure sounds like an oral teaching, to me.

2) Again, I ask you, where does the bible explicitly or implicitly back up your statement: "The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says." Where is it implied or stated that true Christians are to believe ONLY what the Bible says?

-Michael

;-) Well it certainly can't be the catholic teachings because catholics didn't form a church until the 2nd century ad! So that proves they are teaching a false gospel because it couldn't have been what Paul preached. ;-)

And where did the catholic beliefs come from, the colde of hamurabi? :o Your answer will show that you know exactly what gospel Paul is talking about, friend. ;-)

But even if you claim you don't know, then it has to be spelled out to you; Jesus (remember him?) tells us in Mark 12:26, & Luke 24:44 about the OT. And anyone who can comprehend their native language will see that what Paul and the apostles were teaching in the NT is the gospel they were spreading. :roll: But even if you're still in the dark about it, then you can't use John 20:22 to justify apostolic succession because you don't know where to find the correct gospels to spread to the world. You have thus defeated your own arguments. ;-)

 

[ZeroTX]

;-) Well it certainly can't be the catholic teachings because catholics didn't form a church until the 2nd century ad! So that proves they are teaching a false gospel because it couldn't have been what Paul preached. ;-)

Whew! You knocked it out of the park with that one! You got me! I didn't even know we didn't form the Church until the 2nd century. Well, where was the "real church" then, if the Catholic Church was formed in the 2nd century?... All of these early Church Fathers would probably like to know, too, since they were all under the impression that they were the only Church.

So, who started the Catholic Church? Where? When, exactly. Where did all of the followers come from? Did they go on mission trips to create a presence in different nations and regions for this brand new church? Where are the writings of the true Christians, since you are suggesting it was not Catholics? Where are their 2nd century writings?

Here's a second century witness to Catholic/Christian worship:

"On the day we call the day of the sun [Sunday], all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets [OT & epistles] are read, as much as time permits.

When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. [sermon/homily]

Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation. [prayers of the faithful]

When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss. [sign of peace]

Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. [presentation of the gifts]

He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. [Eucharistic prayer]

When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.' [the great Amen]

When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent."

Justin Martyr, (155 A.D.)

[bracketed words are ZeroTX's to show the direct alignment with the mass that we still celebrate each Sunday]

Or how about a 1st century witness to Catholic/Christian teaching:

"Assemble on the Lord’s day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist; but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, ‘Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations’"

-Didache 14 (65-80 A.D.)

I think the real question is when and where did the mass described by Justin Martyr change into the man-made services that take place in evangelical/fundamentalist churches... The Catholic Church was created by Christ.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[ttg]

The Catholic Church produced the Bible, and for 1500 years before the Protestants invented themselves, it was preserved and protected by that same Church.

You may want to reconsider your remarks about who really understands the Bible.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Good post ttg.

Question: Why the Bible at all?

Answer: It's the inspired word of God.

Question: Says who?

Answer: Care to take a stab at it Heidi?

 

[Imagican]

The Catholic Church produced the Bible, and for 1500 years before the Protestants invented themselves, it was preserved and protected by that same Church.

You may want to reconsider your remarks about who really understands the Bible.

That makes PERFECT sense. Formed three hundred years AFTER the 'death' of Christ, that means that they HAD to be 'right' RIGHT? Well, Hinduism goes back MUCH further than this, so IT must be right, RIGHT? See what I mean? Your statement doesn't hold as much water as a bottomless bucket. And how do you figure that ANYTHING has been preserved by the CC? They have changed OVER AND OVER their understanding and teachings. So much so, that it barely even resembles the beginning of their teachings and organization. Talk about ignorance. For you to say this makes your credibility totally suspect.

Are you aware that those that first followed Christ HAD NO BIBLE? They relied STRICTLY on The Spirit to guide them and others. The Spirit is STILL able to guide those that are willing to allow it. The problem is that following MEN doesn't leave much room for The Spirit. And we are CERTAINLY able to discern the spirit or Spirit that men follow according TO THE SPIRIT and The Word. What Heidi has offered is that it becomes obvious to those that have even been barely 'touched' by The Spirit that Catholic doctrine is NOT of The Spirit. For if it were it WOULD follow The Word. It doesn't, so there MUST be 'another' spirit that leads it. This is OBVIOUS to any other than those that have fallen in it's trap.

MEC

 

[thessalonian]

And how do you figure that ANYTHING has been preserved by the CC? They have changed OVER AND OVER their understanding and teachings.

This coming from someone who thinks the confessional is a doctrine and who can't tell me who added and changed the Catholc teachings though I asked him several times, is quite hillarious. It's quite obvious that those who are in the trap you speak of don't know it. But maybe it's you and heidi.

By the way, I don't see the logic you taunt him with in his post. But then logic isn't one of your stong suits.

 

[Latin Rite Catholic]

The Holy Bible

What just slays me is the fact, that the same Bible, that collection of books The Holy Catholic Church, declared was inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the same book which you use as the only source of Divine Revelation!

The Bible you use is a Catholic collection of documents, face the facts!
This is the absolute Truth, a historical fact!


To deny The Holy Catholic Church, is to deny the Authority of The Lord Jesus Christ! All other arguements are moot.

You know in your heart, what I say is true! Only a spirit of rebellion and pride, holds you back from joining The Lord Jesus completely in His Holy Church! No matter how many mistakes have been made through the centuries by men, this is still The Church, founded by Jesus Christ!

I will pray for your conversion Hiedi! You sound just like I used to.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

: These verses say nothing about the content of the Gospel or what the True Christian is supposed to believe! All they say is to hold onto the Traditions given to them. One would have to read elsewhere to get the CONTENT of Paul's teachings! (to the Thessalonians, Paul tells them to hold the oral teachings, too. Why don't you?).

Sorry but you're changing the bible again. Paul doesn't use the word "tradition" and you know it.

Say what? You sure you are reading the Christian Bible? Sorry, sister, you are mistaken. Paul clearly uses "tradition" in the Bible, and I know it! :D

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thes 2:15 (KJV)

The Greek word here for "traditions" is "paradosis", Strong {3862}

Here is the definition:

a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.

a) objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching

b) of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence


Paul also says the following:

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" 2 Thess 3:6

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." Col 2:6-7

I could go on, but this is plenty...

You see, a "tradition" is a teaching. If from the Apostles, it is coming from God. If from men, one that seeks to avoid the Word of God, it is to be refuted. You know, like Sola Fide or Sola Scriptura. Those are good examples of Traditions of men...

Keep reading that Bible.

Regards

 

[Dave...]

Catholic Church

There is no such thing as a Catholic Church, only Catholic church. :wink:

There is a Church though.

The Catholic Church produced the Bible, and for 1500 years before the Protestants invented themselves, it was preserved and protected by that same Church.

The Catholic church is sourced in mystery babylon. It only hijacked God's Word to a degree, as all false teaching do.

 

[Dave...]

God used Pharaoh to do His will, even though Pharaoh worshipped false gods, He used Joseph's brother's actions to save Israel, even though their motives were sinful. In that same way God used the Catholic church to copy from His inpired Word recorded by His people and preserve it until a very brave man translated it into English himself for the people. The Catholic church murdered Him for this. You know that, right?

 

[thessalonian]

The Catholic Church killed Luther? Since when? The Catholic Church was not against Bibles in vernacular languages throughout Europe. There were also English Translations of the New Testament at Luther's time. The primary reason why there was not a complete english bible is that there was quite simply little demand for it. The people were illiterate. They even had to be forced to purchase tyndale bibles. Your history is very bad Dave.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

God used Pharaoh to do His will, even though Pharaoh worshipped false gods, He used Joseph's brother's actions to save Israel, even though their motives were sinful. In that same way God used the Catholic church to copy from His inpired Word recorded by His people and preserve it until a very brave man translated it into English himself for the people. The Catholic church murdered Him for this. You know that, right?

Inspired Word? What made the works in the Bible inspired? Who on earth had this authority?

 

[Dave...]

Two different sources of truth, two different beliefs. You have your Pope, I have God's Word.

 

[Dave...]

The Pope said that a Muslims belief in their god of the Koran will usher them into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus said "I Am the way, the truth ane life, nobody comes to the Father but by me."

Do you have ears to hear? Who will you believe, the Pope, or Jesus, our Lord and Savior?