Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bible

[thessalonian]

Two different sources of truth, two different beliefs. You have your Pope, I have God's Word.

You have no understanding of Catholicism and I do.

The pope is not the source of any catholic truths. All have there origins with the apostles and have been passed on for 2000 years through scripture and oral tradition.

By the way, could you tell me where the Bible says that the scriptures are equivalent to the Word of God? Yes scriptures are the WOG but are they in totality the WOG?

 

[thessalonian]

Your distortions and dichotomies will win no catholic on this board over dave. It's been tried and tried by many like you and has only rooted us deeper in our Catholic faith.

 

[LittleNipper]

Your distortions and dichotomies will win no catholic on this board over dave. It's been tried and tried by many like you and has only rooted us deeper in our Catholic faith.

Shame that Catholics don't get more rooted in GOD's Word and CHRIST instead of church traditions.

 

[thessalonian]

Nipper,

It's easy to make off the cuff statements as you do without any real knowledge of the facts. Your rhetoric, prejudices, and generalizations are duly noted. You really need to stop posting about what Catholics do. Did you know that 60 % of the Mass is right out of scripture and if one goes to Mass over a seven year period on Sundays they will have essentially the whole Bible read to them. If they go daily they will have the whole bible read to them in 3 years. What percentage of Protestants do you think go through the whole bible in 3 or even 7 years? I will be you that it is less than 50% since I heard on the radio that less than 50% of Protestants even read their Bibles regularly.

Now if you have a problem with the Catholic Church reading the Bible better write the Pope about it but don't expect it to change. It's been going on for 2000 years now. That's a tradition. I would hope you would think it is a good one.

By the way the Catholic Church highly encourages daily bible reading.

Blessings

 

[golfjack]

reply

Does anyone know if their is a site for religious denominations stats. Like, what per-cent go to church, etc.?


May God bless, golfjack

 

[Dave...]

I do believe that people can and often will be misunderstood, for me, it seems to go a little bit beyond that with Catholics. I was just on a thread entitled "Our Lady's Contribution To Our Salvation" in onother forum. That was the title, then they wrote a whole post explaining why the title didn't mean what others wrongly and forcfully read into it. :o I thought, are you kidding me?

This is typical. Catholics openly make statements, that if taken in their simplist meaning, are heresies. Why spend so much time defending statements, that when taken in their simplist meaning, you also claim that you don't believe?

On the other side, Catholics agree with statement like "You are saved by Grace, through faith, in Jesus Christ. But if you add the word alone in front of each, they disagree. It's the constant spin that leads me not to trust anything the Catholic church say their words mean, and judge them by the actions of their leaders, which line up perfectly with the simplest meaning of the statements of heresy that they make.

The Pope says that any muslim who believes in god, (From the Koran implied) is saved. Is that what you teach? if not, why do you stay with those who support this obvious heresy?

You know, the really telling part is when young Catholics actually teach openly the things that you deny the Catholic church teaches. I can overlook the occasional zealous newbie who doesn't get it yet, but this is much more common than that.

At what point do you start to question yourself, and stop thinking that the people who take Catholics to task for making statements like "Our Lady's Contribution To Our Salvation" are needlessly attacking you and are actually defending the faith? If this is not what you mean, isn't it dangerous to be saying these things in front of people who don't know any better?

This "we are being needlessly attacked" seems to be the the latest in the "i'm a victim" movement that has filtered into the Church and has more to do with political correctness than what reality is.

If you're waiting for the day when I will except statements made that are clear heresies, no matter what secret Catholic code meaning you claim it means, it's not going to happen. I think any reasonablre person could understand why.

Catholics remind me of the alcoholic who will fight and argue all day long for that one beer.........because he likes the taste.

 

[ttg]

Dave,

You haven't answered Thess's question. You said:

In that same way God used the Catholic church to copy from His inpired Word recorded by His people and preserve it until a very brave man translated it into English himself for the people. The Catholic church murdered Him for this. You know that, right?

No, I don't know that, and you don't know that. In fact, its impossible for anybody to "know" that since its untrue.


Time for a short history lesson. In 1408 a law was passed banning unauthorized translations of the bible. Why? Because earlier, John Wycliff created a mangled version that was heretical and full of errors.

William Tyndale also wanted to create his own English version. Two problems existed though. The first was that he was considered a mediocre scholar and was not qualified to translate the bible into English. His own bishop told him not to attempt translation. The second was that there was no need for an English translation at the time. Booksellers couldn't sell what they had on the shelves. People were being forced to buy bibles against their will.

Since the Church would not allow him to translate the bible, he left for Germany where he met up with Martin Luther. There, he wrote his own version that fit his own agenda. The bishop of London counted at least 2000 errors in the New Testament alone. King Henry VIII (you know, the Protestant guy) said about it "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people."

Tyndale even filled it with footnotes that maligned the Church and helped to create the rift between Protestants and Catholics that exists today. He was an angry, bitter and tempermental man who only wanted to thumb his nose at those who told him he wasn't educated enough to translate the bible.

He broke the law of 1408 which made it illegal to create any unauthorized versions of the bible. If he had written his bible in Spanish, German or even Latin, he still would have been punished. Which language he wrote it in is immaterial.

 

[Imagican]

Two different sources of truth, two different beliefs. You have your Pope, I have God's Word.

You have no understanding of Catholicism and I do.

The pope is not the source of any catholic truths. All have there origins with the apostles and have been passed on for 2000 years through scripture and oral tradition.

By the way, could you tell me where the Bible says that the scriptures are equivalent to the Word of God? Yes scriptures are the WOG but are they in totality the WOG?

Thess, your understanding of a 'religion' is NO different than man's understanding of ANYTHING. Nothing 'inspired' there, just a 'belief' in what you choose. And your understanding of the CC in NO way makes it 'true'. If you understood Catholocism as you claim, then you would KNOW as well as others just how devious it has been and the destruction that it has wrought over the centuries. In the name of God? Yeah, in NAME only. There is NO room for HATE and persecution in God's Word. Christ WAS/IS the example of HOW we are to 'follow' the will of God. NAME ONE that Christ EVER killed or persecuted. Yet we have the history of the CC and the 'perhaps MILLIONS' who's deaths are on 'their' hands. And for WHAT? For 'thier' belief system and struggle for power. Not very Christ-like if you ask me.

And don't start spurting out your accusations of MY hatred. I do NOT hate anyone. I am simply pointing out the 'truth'. You may call it 'hate' if you choose, but the 'truth' is that all I am offering is historical FACT. From YOUR perspective, ANYTHING that I point out that is 'against' the CC, MUST be 'hate'. WRONG again. And if the 'truth' hurts, learn to 'deal with it', and it won' t hurt so bad.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Nice post Dave. Nothing but the 'truth'. I like that. Those poor, poor, misunderstood Catholics. Sure didn't NEED such sympathy when they controlled most of the civilized world. I guess now that they don't we should 'feel sorry' for them losing their power and control.

And the 'silly statements' concerning how the Protestant movement is SO new and their 'way' is SO old. Golly guys, the CC murdered ALL who opposed them for over a thousand years. Didn't leave MUCH room for a Protestant movement at the PEAK of their power. But, as SOON as the people WERE able to worship SEPARATE from the CC, what did they do?

God is NOT about FORCING others to do ANYTHING. He certainly punishes those that He loves, but He doesn't FORCE anyone to DO anything. Yet this is EXACTLY what the CC 'tries' to do even to this day. A TOTAL devotion to 'them' and 'their way' is the name of the game. Treating the individual as if 'they don't matter'. Kind of dictatorship or even similar to a 'form' of communism. It's not the individual that matters, it's the 'state'. Yes, the Body is ALL important. But the CC states that THEY are the ONLY body. Anyone that rejects 'their' teachings, NO matter how bogus they may be, CAN NOT be a part of The Body. Rediculous.

And look at the reputation these were able to taint Christians with to the REST of the World. Killing Jews and blaming the 'death of Christ' on them. Crusades, inquisition, etc............ There are STILL those that BELIEVE that this was a 'part' of Christianity. You know guys, it's one thing to 'claim' to be a Christian, it's another to 'truly' BE one. And what do you think that it MEANS to be a Christian. Control over the masses? Death to anyone that doesn't 'agree' with you? Talk about a 'one man show'. A pope I am NOT. HE IS a 'one man show'.

MEC

 

[Fat]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASV

Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book.

Of course the Mormons would argue with that.

IHS
Fat

 

[ZeroTX]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says.

Where does the Bible say that?

-Michael

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASV

Rev 22:18 I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book.

Of course the Mormons would argue with that.

IHS
Fat

1 Thess Scripture: "All Scripture" = Old Testament Scripture. Do you think the authors of the New Testament knew that they were writing books of the New Testament?

Rev 22: "This Book" = the book of Revelation. Again, it was not written as a part of a whole, nor as a book of the Bible. It was written as one single work, thus "This book" refers to itself.

Furthermore, we don't dispute the inerrancy of Scripture. We agree that the New Testament is the inspired Word of God!!!

But, uhm, dare I ask again, where does the Bible say "The beliefs of true Christians are based on what the bible says."?? Or more importantly, where does it say that the beliefs of "true Christians" are based on what the Bible ALONE says?...

You won't find the concept of Sola Scriptura anywhere in The Bible. Keep looking!

-Michael

 

[Fat]

Re: Catholic beliefs are based on what is not said in the Bi

Michael

1 Thess Scripture: "All Scripture" = Old Testament Scripture. Do you think the authors of the New Testament knew that they were writing books of the New Testament?

If they did not how do you explain Rev 22? Do you think John thought he was writing a one book NT?

2 Timothy 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Paul was not talking about infant as in child.

Rev 22: "This Book" = the book of Revelation. Again, it was not written as a part of a whole, nor as a book of the Bible. It was written as one single work, thus "This book" refers to itself.

Yeah he was writing the words of Christ ( The Word Of God ) for what reason? Again do you think John thought he was writing a one book NT?

Well here some more good stuff for you.

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. 6 Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Matthew
15:6
he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
15:7
You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
15:8
"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
15:9
They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"
15:13
He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots."

Mark 7:8-9, "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men. 9He was also saying to them, You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition."

Col. 2:8, "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."




“The Word of God†= "The Bible"= "The Word of God"
"The word of man"= Well I'll let you tell me.

By grace alone
Fat

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASV

Translation: 1) Your teachings must stand the test of Gods Word. 2) If the church says 'black' and the Bible says 'white' white is the truth. 3) God out ranks the Pope.