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Catholic Bible Study

I'm looking for information on who I've been told, was a 15th century Patron Saint named Ansehl.

I've done a few searches, but I can't find anything about him. Any leads you can give me?

Much thanks,
Jeff
 
StoveBolts said:
I'm looking for information on who I've been told, was a 15th century Patron Saint named Ansehl.

I've done a few searches, but I can't find anything about him. Any leads you can give me?

Much thanks,
Jeff
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Do you know anything else?

St. Anselm is pretty cool but he's a bit earlier than the 15th century.
 
Thanks for finding that link Vic. I'm not sure if it's the right one or not.

My cousin (who has been raising one of my duagters since shortly after birth) wrote this about her son Ansehl, who just graduated.

My gramma Holzer gave her children biblical names or the name of a favorite saint. Ansehl patron saint was a 15th century bishop who preached; "Catholics should listen to their own spiritual insights rather than strict adherence to church dogma." True to his namesake; Ansehl is a free thinker.
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She is very active in the RCC and has been studying to be a Franciscan (sp). If this is the same St. Ansehl, I think she may be a bit confused on her dates?? :oops:

Anyway, with the comment she made, I thought I'd find out a bit more about this St. Ansehl.

Xian or Thess,
Does this sound about right or is there another St. out there with the same name??

Thanks,
 
That doesn't sound right at all... I'm skeptical of him actually being a saint if he preached adherence to something other than dogma-- the Church would not canonize such a person. Obeying one's own insights rather than dogma is akin to Relativism, which is one of the gravest enemies of the Church.

What order of the Franciscans is she studying with, do you know?
 
Perhaps it was a statement out of context. Some people quote Saints out of context and then makes them seem like they were saying something that they were not.
 
and this is a neat idea. im surprised I missed it until just now.
 
belovedwolfofgod said:
Perhaps it was a statement out of context. Some people quote Saints out of context and then makes them seem like they were saying something that they were not.
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True, but then there is also the issue of the spelling of his name and the date that seem to be absent from any book/website about Catholic Saints that feeds the skepticism.

And besides, in or out of context, that doesn't seem at all like something St. Anselm would say (I am a huge fan of St. Anselm's writings, and such a statement doesn't sound at all familiar... and the sentiment is more than repulsive to St. Anselm from the 1100s)
 
Didnt think of it like that.

I never read Anselm, though someone I know told me I would enjoy him but wouldnt be able to quote him without being better versed in philosophy.
 
Well Xian, I'm not to sure what to say.

I thought that what my cousin was saying was a bit odd and I couldn't find anything on him. But ya know, my Uncles wife was an old German gal and her mother (gramma Holzer) was steeped in oral RCC tradition as is my cousin.

I'm not saying that oral tradition is wrong here, but if what you are saying is correct, then I see a big issue with some oral tradition. Anyway, before we go down that road I'll call my cousin on this and see if she can give me any more details. I'll also ask here about the Franciscan thing.

BTW,
Do you have a link on any of his writings that you would recomend?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "oral Tradition"... Tradition, in the Catholic Church, while it started out as oral, is not a continuing thing as it's a part of Divine Revelation and this ended with the death of the last Apostle quite a while ago... most of our "oral" Tradition is now written down somewhere.

St. Anselm is a great Saint, the first chapter of his Proslogion is one of my favorite prayers. You can read quite bit from CCEL's site: http://www.ccel.org/a/anselm/
this site also has quite few links about St. Anselm: http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainta16.htm
 
Hey Xian,

Sorry, I used the wrong verbage when I said oral tradition. I forgot that those words carry a punch between prots and Catholics. My bad, I didn't intend it that way and I should have thought about how I worded things.

What I should have said, is that she has a lot of family stories that have been passed on through the generations. She was brought up in all the Catholic prep schools and graduated from Gonzaga University ( http://www.gonzaga.edu/ ) so when she says somthing in regard to the RCC, I kinda assume she knows what she's talking about. I know, I know. Assuming can be dangerous.

Anyway, I havn't heard back from my cousin yet but when I do, I'll get back with you. One thing that's got me curious though is this. You spell Ansehl differently than she does. She named her kid Ansehl so I know she knows how to spell it... unlesss she's just spelling it germanly (germanly, is that a word? LOL)
 
Stove,

Been on vacation. I see your quote. Anselm was somewhat of a "free thinker"/philosopher so I think that is likely the right guy that your cousin is thinking of though I do doudt the quote and cannot find any hint of it on the net. I've read some Anselm and have not run accross it but he was quite orthodox. I do know someone who has some expertise on him and will try to run it by him.

That said, the quote could have been made but as a Catholic I would view it in a little differrent light. One who simply follows stick dogma does not really understand Catholicism. Catholicism is not contained simply in the dogmas of the Church. Rather, the dogmas give Catholics a bound on which to view things. The Sacred Oral traditions give explicitness to the implicit scriptures and keep us in the light of truth. I have actually found that rather than bounding us, like the moral laws are for our good to tell us how to love God and our neighbor, and by his grace when we follow them they actually free us, so, Sacred Oral Tradition actually frees our thought so that we can grow in the knowledge and love of God far beyond what I think is available in the protestant framework of Sola Scriptura. Catholicism is actually about free thought, for in the truth we are set free to delve more deeply in to the mysteries of God, who is not limited by the words of Scripture. I feel much more free in thought in Catholicism than I believe you are in your protestant framework. Errors are dead ends. The truth sets men free. I know this offends but it is true. Read the writings of St. Teresa of Avilla, Mother Teresa, St. Augustine, yes St. Anselm, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Therese Lissuex, and many many others and tell me that they were religiously dogmatic. I will say you have not read them. I wish I had saved it but a few years back read a quote from JP II that summed up this very idea of how oral tradition frees our thought.
To summarize, the Church provides a framework of tradition which helps us to understand God and scripture, guiding us down the path of truth. The sheep are fed and guided by the Church. The sheep guided by the Church, with the Holy Spirit, know his voice and therefore in truth the Church is not afraid of free thought at all. If it were, those I listed above and countless others would have been declared heretics long ago. Free thought and dogma should not be in opposition.

Hope that helps.
 
This thread has been going on for how long and I just found it?

I'm a cradle Catholic who is starting to explore my faith instead of taking it for granted. I gotta tell ya, I am so impressed with the knowledge and tolerance of Thess, belovedwolfofgod and CatholicXian.

Let me see if I can come up with a question for the experts...I've always been under the impression that Vatican II changed the Mass from being in Latin. But since Vatican II took place about the same time I made my First Communion, I should remember Latin Mass. So was Mass ever commonly conducted in Latin in the US? And if so, when did it change?
 
ttg said:
This thread has been going on for how long and I just found it?

I'm a cradle Catholic who is starting to explore my faith instead of taking it for granted. I gotta tell ya, I am so impressed with the knowledge and tolerance of Thess, belovedwolfofgod and CatholicXian.

Let me see if I can come up with a question for the experts...I've always been under the impression that Vatican II changed the Mass from being in Latin. But since Vatican II took place about the same time I made my First Communion, I should remember Latin Mass. So was Mass ever commonly conducted in Latin in the US? And if so, when did it change?
Click to expand...

Vatican II did not actually change it but paved the way for the change.

Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium[5] of 4 December 1963: "Since the use of the vernacular, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or in other parts of the liturgy, may frequently be of great advantage to the people, a wider use may be made of it, especially in readings, directives and in some prayers and chants" (section 36); and: "A suitable place may be allotted to the vernacular in Masses which are celebrated with the people, especially in the readings and 'the common prayer', and also, as local conditions may warrant, in those parts which pertain to the people" (section 54).

Local synods of Bishops were allowed to make adaptations, which needed Papal approval, which ended in vernacular masses throughtout the world by 1970 when the new Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI came out. I was very young but I vaugly remember latin Masses in the early 60's. I think by 65 or 68 the Mass in our diocese was in English.

The change from Latin to the vernacular is not a change in Dogma or Doctrine but in practice, which can and not infreequently does change. Though in fact there were vernacular Masses in many countries throughout history, as it has always been allowed but fidelity to the translation was a big concern. Therefore Pius V declared that Vernacular Mass translatoins had to be 200 years old. It is obvious that vernacular, non-latin Masses are not Sacred Oral Tradition but a practice since Jesus and his Apostles did not likely participate in the first Mass at the last supper in Latin, but in Hebrew or Aaramaic. Practice (t-tradition) can change. Sacred Oral Tradition (T) cannot. There has been much confusion on this matter by traditionalist catholics.

Hope that helps.
 
Stove,

I got a response from a friend who has read Anselm's major works. He knows nothing of the quote your cousin gave you from him. Further Anselm has writings to Rome in which he affirms much dogma. Perhaps your cousin can ref the quote. As I said there is no conflict between dogma and free thought. In fact they go hand in hand.
 
Thanks for clarifying that Thess and I really appreciate your time on this. It didn't make a lot of sense to me when she wrote it.

Seems like she might have a few of her facts wrong, that's ok, I don't get crazy on the details all the time and what you've said really makes since. BTW, I haven't heard back from her on this. I'm sure she will respond though. It's summertime and she's busy and I've missed her on the phone with the 3 hour time zone difference anyway.

Also,
I've read Augustines Confessions and it has been a great inspiration for me. I'm utterly fascinated with his description of time. All I can say is WOW! Blows my mind!
Another thing that his book did for me was show me just how selfish we humans are. It was an eye opener for sure. (but not in a guilty way, but in a release, freedom kind of way).

Can I switch directions for a moment?
I've heard it said, "Your Catholic guilt..." You know what I mean? I don't think it's about guilt, I think it's about finding freedom in Christ. Christ will pierce our very souls and sometimes, that's not an easy, feel good moment. But the rewards! Ohh the rewards truly set us free!

Know what I mean? I can't really articulate it.
 
Yes, his Confessions is an amazing book.

"Your Catholic guilt..."

No I don't actually. I agree that it is not about guilt. Like David my bones grow weary (psalm 51) when I have a sin hanging over me. We need to respond to the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin. That for me is done in the confessional where I know my sins are fogiven by God almighty "whose sins you forgive they are fogiven (by God as well)" John 20:21. There is nothing like walking out of the confessional after a heavy load has been lifted. God removes the guilt completely. That is what he wants to do and I think we agree. We as Catholics are not told to feel guilty all the time if that is what you are getting at. We are freed from that guilt by the healing power of God's grace in the sacraments. I have experienced this healing power through the Mass and the Eucharist which forgives sin as well. Some sin will bother me before Mass and when I leave it does not weigh heavy on my mind any longer. This has happened more times than I can count. We have the pentetential right at the beginning where we express our sorrow for our sins, but I feel the forgiveness when I recieve the Eucharist.

Matt 26
27: And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you;
28: for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


The Church seeks to remove guilt by the application of God's grace and help us overcome the sins which are the cause of guilt and bondage of our lives.

Blessings
 
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