• Love God, and love one another!

    Share your love for Christ and others with us

    https://christianforums.net/forums/god_love/

  • Want to discuss private matters, or make a few friends?

    Ask for membership to the Men's or Lady's Locker Rooms

    For access, please contact a member of staff and they can add you in!

  • Wake up and smell the coffee!

    Join us for a little humor in Joy of the Lord

    https://christianforums.net/forums/humor_and_jokes/

  • Need prayer and encouragement?

    Come share your heart's concerns

    https://christianforums.net/forums/prayer/

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes coming in the future!

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

Catholic Church Origins

  • Thread starter Thread starter CDF
  • Start date Start date
C

CDF

Guest
I read the ToS where Catholicism could be discussed here or in the 1 on 1. Hopefully I am in the right place to pose these questions:

1. Did Catholicism start with Constantine legalizing Christianity and adopting that religion?
2. If so, is there evidence that he mixed pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and thus you get some of the unusual Catholic practices?

I have been studying Catholicism from a knowledge only stand point, and it seems they use doctrine and tradition when they can't find their belief support in scripture. Now I am not going to sit here and bash them, however, how could anyone in their right mind blindly go along with some of those things when the Bible clearly dictates otherwise?

We have any Catholics that could meet me in a 1 on 1 and answer some questions, or toss around a debate?
 
let's get acquainted with some of their own writings:

“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.†Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God almighty.†— Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894.

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of human flesh.†— Catholic National, July 1895.

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.†— Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous.â€

“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.†— The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism,p 182-183.

“The church may by divine right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out.†— Public Eccliastical, Vol. 2, p.142.

“The priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from hell, of making them worthy of paradise and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests. … ‘The Sovereign Master of the universe only follows the servant by confirming in heaven all that the latter decides upon earth.†– “Dignity and Duties of the Priest,†St. Alphonsus de Liguori, pp. 27, 28. New York: Benziger Brothers, 1888.

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.†(1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c.3)

Pope Nicholas said of himself: “I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.†(Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

The RC New York catechism states: “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.â€

The title “Lord God the Pope†– these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.†(The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII Cum. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

“To pardon a single sin requires all the omnipotence of God…The Jews justly said: ‘Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ But what only GOD can do by His omnipotence, the PRIEST can ALSO do by saying ‘Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis’ [I absolve you from your sin].†— Alphonsus de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest, pages 34-35.

“Unlike the rest of the children of Adam, the soul of Mary was never subject to sin. “Faith of Our Fathers,†Cardinal Gibbons, pp. 203, 204. Baltimore: 1885.

The Sainted Doctor Alphonsus de Liguori says: “The merits of Jesus, shall be dispensed through the hands and by the intercession of Mary. “Glories of Mary,†p. 180, New Revised Edition. New York: P. J. Kenedy and Sons, 1888.

“God has chosen to bestow no grace upon us but by the hands of Mary.†– Id., p. 180.

“Whoever asks and wishes to obtain graces without the intercession of Mary, attempts to fly without wings.♠– Id., p. 189.

“All those who are saved, are saved solely by means of this divine mother; … the salvation of all depends upon preaching Mary†– Id., pp. 19, 20.
 
CDF said:
I read the ToS where Catholicism could be discussed here or in the 1 on 1. Hopefully I am in the right place to pose these questions:

1. Did Catholicism start with Constantine legalizing Christianity and adopting that religion?

No, it started with Jesus Christ's Apostles...

CDF said:
2. If so, is there evidence that he mixed pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and thus you get some of the unusual Catholic practices?

Constantine had nothing to do with the practices already in place, practiced by Catholic Christians before Constantine was even born. Asking for prayers from dead saints, worship of the Eucharistic bread as Jesus' real presence, apostolic succession, the papacy, all firmly established in historical documents in second century writings, long before Constantine.

I would be interested to see evidence that CONSTANTINE interjected ANYTHING into the Church's practice. At most, we can say that in the name of peace between Catholics and Arians, he called all Christian bishops together at Nicea to settle the dispute (being Pontificus Maximus, that was his right and responsibility) - but he didn't interject anything at that Council.

CDF said:
I have been studying Catholicism from a knowledge only stand point, and it seems they use doctrine and tradition when they can't find their belief support in scripture.

You mean like "All things we are supposed to believe can be found in the Scriptures?" Where is that tradition of men in the Bible? There are numerous things we believe that have only implicit understanding found in Sacred Scriptures, such as infant baptism. However, since our beliefs are not dependent upon Sacred Scriptures ALONE, but rather, EVERYTHING taught by the Apostles, the idea that everything must be found explicitly in Scriptures is itself a false and self-defeating doctrine.

CDF said:
Now I am not going to sit here and bash them, however, how could anyone in their right mind blindly go along with some of those things when the Bible clearly dictates otherwise?

I am not going to sit here and bash them, and then you say that???

Make up your mind. We don't follow "blindly" anything. We merely don't believe that everything to be believed needs explicit support from the Bible. That is a tradition of men promulgated upon unknowing Christians beginning in the 16th century.

CDF said:
We have any Catholics that could meet me in a 1 on 1 and answer some questions, or toss around a debate?

is there really a point of debating?? You don't exactly sound "on the fence", you've already got your mind made up. It would end up as a stalemate, as every other such conversation between two people who have strong opinions about how to worship God.
 
Geo said:
let's get acquainted with some of their own writings:

“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.†Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

If I had a dollar for every protestant who posted these typical quotes out of context, I'd be a rich man... It is like all such Catholic bashing must begin with this particular paste n clip (which, of course, is not cited).

It would take too much effort to refute all of these false charges, but I will refute one, just to show you how anti-Catholics twist the truth to sucker people of good faith to hate Catholics and contribute to their agenda of hatred while claiming to be lovers of God (like the Pharisees' claim to kill Christians while serving God...) And so, the first one...

“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.†Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

Here is the truth of the matter, see for yourself the tactics used by these deviant people...

There continues to circulate a tract with the supposed "Knights of Columbus Oath," which was circulated at the time John F. Kennedy was running for president. This oath—supposedly taken by Catholic men—required relentless war (secretly or openly) against Protestants and Masons: to exterminate them from the face of the earth; to hang, strangle, waste, burn, boil, and bury alive these infamous heretics; to rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls.

Many believe this is factual because on the tract, it states, "Copied from the Congressional Record, Feb. 15, 1913." Note carefully the date, and the date "your" citation presents. Of course, these liars don't tell people why it was printed in the Congressional Record.

In 1912 a magazine called The Menace printed the bogus oath, supposing it to be authentic, but later admitted that there was no evidence it was. Meanwhile, Eugene Bonniwell, a Catholic, lost an election for Congress. He thought the circulation of the "oath" may have been partly responsible for him losing the election. When the elections committee made their report, the oath was used as an exhibit and condemned as spurious. That is how it came to be printed in the Congressional Record.

Such is the result of reading from anti-catholic websites. You'll hear either twisted truths, quotes taken out of context, or outright lies invented to advance their devious purposes.

Believing urban legends or the truth. The choice is yours.

Regards
 
mdo757 said:
And that is the tip of the iceburg.

you forgot to add "...of the urban legends we have invented against the Church established by the Apostles."
 
CDF said:
I read the ToS where Catholicism could be discussed here or in the 1 on 1. Hopefully I am in the right place to pose these questions:

1. Did Catholicism start with Constantine legalizing Christianity and adopting that religion?
2. If so, is there evidence that he mixed pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and thus you get some of the unusual Catholic practices?

I have been studying Catholicism from a knowledge only stand point, and it seems they use doctrine and tradition when they can't find their belief support in scripture. Now I am not going to sit here and bash them, however, how could anyone in their right mind blindly go along with some of those things when the Bible clearly dictates otherwise?

We have any Catholics that could meet me in a 1 on 1 and answer some questions, or toss around a debate?
I have no problem with discussing the RCC here. BUT... keep in mind what forum you are in right now. That will dictate the context of the posts.
 
CDF said:
I read the ToS where Catholicism could be discussed here or in the 1 on 1. Hopefully I am in the right place to pose these questions:

1. Did Catholicism start with Constantine legalizing Christianity and adopting that religion?
2. If so, is there evidence that he mixed pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and thus you get some of the unusual Catholic practices?

I have been studying Catholicism from a knowledge only stand point, and it seems they use doctrine and tradition when they can't find their belief support in scripture. Now I am not going to sit here and bash them, however, how could anyone in their right mind blindly go along with some of those things when the Bible clearly dictates otherwise?

We have any Catholics that could meet me in a 1 on 1 and answer some questions, or toss around a debate?



The Catholic Church started in 33AD here:

Matt 16
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,c and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hadesd will not overcome it.e 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bef bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will beg loosed in heaven.â€



Here is an early reference to the Church from Ignatius of Antioch. Ignatius knew the apostle John and was the Bishop of Antioch. He was eaten by lions for his faith.


"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
 
This was the Church seen in Acts that Christ started up from the Remnant of Matt. 10:5-6. (Even see Matt. 25's Virgin Sanctuary Doctrine one) And it had or has NOTHING to do with rome, even though Paul did say later on that the mystery of sin (iniquity) doth already work!.

You can even see who has the 'keys' of Zion's heavenly one to bind or loose. (converts) Saul in Acts 9:6 asked Christ what he will You have me do? And Christ sent him where?? And told him what HE MUST DO! It is also interesting that all Christ would need to do to heal Saul (Paul) of his blindness was to speak the Word! But he sent him to the Church that He had just started up instead.

And satan has always had a type of rome on the scene for his evil work. If anyone responds, I will see if I can locate the scripture for you to read for yourself.

--Elijah

[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

--Elijah
 
CDF said:
I read the ToS where Catholicism could be discussed here or in the 1 on 1. Hopefully I am in the right place to pose these questions:

1. Did Catholicism start with Constantine legalizing Christianity and adopting that religion?
2. If so, is there evidence that he mixed pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and thus you get some of the unusual Catholic practices?

I have been studying Catholicism from a knowledge only stand point, and it seems they use doctrine and tradition when they can't find their belief support in scripture. Now I am not going to sit here and bash them, however, how could anyone in their right mind blindly go along with some of those things when the Bible clearly dictates otherwise?

We have any Catholics that could meet me in a 1 on 1 and answer some questions, or toss around a debate?



Catholicism started in 33 AD at Pentecost.

It was based on the authority granted by Jesus to Peter and the apostles.

Matt 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

By the time the book of Revelation was written, the Church was on it's fourth Pope.

Here's the first known use of the word Catholic to describe the One, Holy and Apostolic Church started by Jesus. Ignatius knew the apostle John personally and was the Bishop of Antioch:


"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
 
This was done by another. --Elijagh

2Sa 22:2 and he said: The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
(JPS) The God who is my rock, in Him I take refuge; my shield, and my horn of salvation, my high tower, and my refuge; my savior, Thou savest me from violence.

Psa 31:2 (31:3) Incline Thine ear unto me, deliver me speedily; be Thou to me a rock of refuge, even a fortress of defense, to save me.
Psa 31:3 (31:4) For Thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for Thy name's sake lead me and guide me.

Psa 61:2 From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
Psa 61:3 For thou hast been a shelter for me, and a strong tower from the enemy.
Psa 61:4 I will abide in thy tabernacle forever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah.

Psa 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.

Psa 94:22 But the LORD is my defense; and my God is the rock of my refuge.

Isa 26:4
(JPS) Trust ye in the LORD for ever, for the LORD is GOD, an everlasting Rock.

(Isa 48:21-22 NIV) "They did not thirst when he led them through the deserts; he made water flow for them from the rock; he split the rock and water gushed out."

(1 Cor 10:2-5 NIV) "They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. {3} They all ate the same spiritual food {4} and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."

(John 4:10 NIV) "Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.""

2 Sam 22:32-33 NIV) "For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? {33} It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect."

(Psa 18:31-33 NIV) "For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? {32} It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect. {33} He makes my feet like the feet of a deer; he enables me to stand on the heights."

(Exo 33:18) "Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
(Exo 33:20-23 NIV) "But," He said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see Me and live." {21} Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. {22} When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. {23} Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.""

Notice here, that Moses has to be hid in the cleft of the rock to be able to see God and live. It is that because our life is hid in Christ, we may someday see God in all His glorious splendor and live!

(Isa 44:7-9 NIV) "Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before me what has happened since I established my ancient people, and what is yet to come-- yes, let him foretell what will come. {8} Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." {9} All who make idols are nothing, and the things they treasure are worthless. Those who would speak up for them are blind; they are ignorant, to their own shame."

Of course, this goes on and on and on like this, so we may know who is our Rock, but some men choose the man Peter to be their rock - I just do not understand it, but i understand what the Lord says about it - selecting the doctrine of man over Him.

Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.


Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

--------------------

Grace, Peace, and Mercy unto you and yours

By: Sail2awe
 
Elijah674 said:
This was done by another. --Elijagh

I fail to see how that is relevant to this post.

Can you respond to this?

Catholicism started in 33 AD at Pentecost.

It was based on the authority granted by Jesus to Peter and the apostles.

Matt 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

By the time the book of Revelation was written, the Church was on it's fourth Pope.

Here's the first known use of the word Catholic to describe the One, Holy and Apostolic Church started by Jesus. Ignatius knew the apostle John personally and was the Bishop of Antioch:


"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
 
I'm still not seeing any real correlation to eschatology in the latest posts. If we can't make a connection to end Times events, the Staff will have to close this thread.

Sorry, but my allowing RCC related posts here is based on End Times talk.
 
Vic C. said:
I'm still not seeing any real correlation to eschatology in the latest posts. If we can't make a connection to end Times events, the Staff will have to close this thread.

Sorry, but my allowing RCC related posts here is based on End Times talk.


What is it that makes Catholicism and eschatology together kosher?
 
The meaning of Catholic: "14th century. Via Latin catholicus from, ultimately, Greek katholikos “universal,†from katholou “in general,†from kata “in regard to†+ holos “whole.â€(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) By the time of Constantine in the fourth century C.E., the Roman Empire was suffering serious internal divisions.

Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine realized that he could use apostate Christianity to consolidate the declining Empire, so the bishop of Rome saw that paganism could provide popular appeal to his variety of apostate Christianity, of which Jesus foretold the apostasy of Christianity at Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43.

The Roman church had adopted the pagan Sunday as the day to celebrate Easter, whereas churches in Eastern cities had been celebrating it on whatever day of the week Nisan 14 of the Jewish calendar fell. Also, whereas several Eastern churches were inclined to follow Arius, who denied the Trinity doctrine, Rome quickly adopted this pagan idea of a triune god.

On both of these matters, Emperor Constantine came out in favor of Rome. This he did by making a Sunday observance law in 321 C.E. and by imposing the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. He fused apostate Christianity with the pagan Roman cult and made this “universal†or “catholic†form of worship the state religion.

As a result, the foundation of Christendom was laid. As British broadcaster Malcolm Muggeridge wrote in his book The End of Christendom: “Christendom began with the Emperor Constantine.†However, he also made the perceptive comment: “You might even say that Christ himself abolished Christendom before it began by stating that his kingdom was not of this world—one of the most far reaching and important of all his statements.†And one most widely ignored by Christendom’s religious and political rulers.(John 18:36)
 
nadab said:
The meaning of Catholic: "14th century. Via Latin catholicus from, ultimately, Greek katholikos “universal,†from katholou “in general,†from kata “in regard to†+ holos “whole.â€(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) By the time of Constantine in the fourth century C.E., the Roman Empire was suffering serious internal divisions.

Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine realized that he could use apostate Christianity to consolidate the declining Empire, so the bishop of Rome saw that paganism could provide popular appeal to his variety of apostate Christianity, of which Jesus foretold the apostasy of Christianity at Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43.

The Roman church had adopted the pagan Sunday as the day to celebrate Easter, whereas churches in Eastern cities had been celebrating it on whatever day of the week Nisan 14 of the Jewish calendar fell. Also, whereas several Eastern churches were inclined to follow Arius, who denied the Trinity doctrine, Rome quickly adopted this pagan idea of a triune god.

On both of these matters, Emperor Constantine came out in favor of Rome. This he did by making a Sunday observance law in 321 C.E. and by imposing the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. He fused apostate Christianity with the pagan Roman cult and made this “universal†or “catholic†form of worship the state religion.

As a result, the foundation of Christendom was laid. As British broadcaster Malcolm Muggeridge wrote in his book The End of Christendom: “Christendom began with the Emperor Constantine.†However, he also made the perceptive comment: “You might even say that Christ himself abolished Christendom before it began by stating that his kingdom was not of this world—one of the most far reaching and important of all his statements.†And one most widely ignored by Christendom’s religious and political rulers.(John 18:36)


Of note, Muggeridge eventually converted to Catholicism.

What did he learn that you haven't yet learned?
 
chestertonrules said:
nadab said:
The meaning of Catholic: "14th century. Via Latin catholicus from, ultimately, Greek katholikos “universal,†from katholou “in general,†from kata “in regard to†+ holos “whole.â€(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) By the time of Constantine in the fourth century C.E., the Roman Empire was suffering serious internal divisions.

Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine realized that he could use apostate Christianity to consolidate the declining Empire, so the bishop of Rome saw that paganism could provide popular appeal to his variety of apostate Christianity, of which Jesus foretold the apostasy of Christianity at Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43.

The Roman church had adopted the pagan Sunday as the day to celebrate Easter, whereas churches in Eastern cities had been celebrating it on whatever day of the week Nisan 14 of the Jewish calendar fell. Also, whereas several Eastern churches were inclined to follow Arius, who denied the Trinity doctrine, Rome quickly adopted this pagan idea of a triune god.

On both of these matters, Emperor Constantine came out in favor of Rome. This he did by making a Sunday observance law in 321 C.E. and by imposing the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. He fused apostate Christianity with the pagan Roman cult and made this “universal†or “catholic†form of worship the state religion.

As a result, the foundation of Christendom was laid. As British broadcaster Malcolm Muggeridge wrote in his book The End of Christendom: “Christendom began with the Emperor Constantine.†However, he also made the perceptive comment: “You might even say that Christ himself abolished Christendom before it began by stating that his kingdom was not of this world—one of the most far reaching and important of all his statements.†And one most widely ignored by Christendom’s religious and political rulers.(John 18:36)


Of note, Muggeridge eventually converted to Catholicism.

What did he learn that you haven't yet learned?

I learned that Malcolm Muggeridge was perceptive when he wrote the book, The End of Christendom in 1980, that Catholicism has as its roots pagan beginnings, and that pagan Emperor Constantine formed the "catholic" or "universal" religion to consolidate his fragmented kingdom. By fusing both the pagan religious adherents and those of "Christianity", he thus set the stage for a state religion called "Catholicism" to pacify all in his kingdom.

By decreeing Sunday to be a day of rest for all but the farmers, he continued dies Solis (Latin), an old title associated with astrology and sun worship, and of which historian Paul Johnson noted that "Constantine never abandoned sun-worship and kept the sun on his coins.â€

The Catholic Encyclopedia observes: “Constantine showed equal favour to both religions. As pontifex maximus he watched over the heathen worship and protected its rights.†It further said that "in the dedication of Constantinople in 330 a ceremonial half pagan, half Christian was used. The chariot of the sun-god was set in the market-place, and over its head was placed the Cross of Christ, while the Kyrie Eleison was sung. Shortly before his death Constantine confirmed the privileges of the priests of the ancient gods. Many other actions of his have also the appearance of half-measures, as if he himself had wavered and had always held in reality to some form of syncretistic religion (combination of different beliefs)."

The encyclopedia Hidria, added: “Constantine never became a Christian. Eusebius of Caesarea, who wrote his biography, says that he became a Christian in the last moments of his life. This doesn’t hold water, as the day before, [Constantine] had made a sacrifice to Zeus because he also had the title Pontifex Maximus.â€

Constantine sensed that the “Christian†religion—albeit apostate and deeply corrupted by then—could be effectively utilized as a revitalizing and uniting force to serve his grand scheme for imperial domination. Adopting the foundations of apostate Christianity to gain support in furthering his own political ends, he decided to unify the people under one “catholic,†or universal, religion.

Pagan customs and celebrations were given “Christian†names. And “Christian†clergymen were given the status, salary, and influential clout of pagan priests. Down to the day of his death in 337 C.E., Constantine bore the pagan title of Pontifex Maximus, the supreme head of religious matters.

As the pagan Pontifex Maximus—and therefore the religious head of the Roman Empire—Constantine tried to win over the bishops of the apostate church. He offered them positions of power, prominence, and wealth as officers of the Roman State religion.

The Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “Some bishops, blinded by the splendour of the court, even went so far as to laud the emperor as an angel of God, as a sacred being, and to prophesy that he would, like the Son of God, reign in heaven.†Yet, Emperor Constantine was incriminated in the murder of no less than seven close friends and relatives, including his eldest son Crispus and wife Fausta.

As apostate Christianity came into favor with the political government, it became more and more a part of this world, of this secular system, and drifted away from the teachings of Jesus Christ. (John 15:19; 17:14, 16; Revelation 17:1, 2) As a result, there was a fusion of “Christianity†with false doctrines and practices—the Trinity, immortality of the soul, hellfire, purgatory, prayers for the dead, use of rosaries, icons, images, and the like.

From Constantine, the church also inherited the tendency to be authoritarian. Scholars Henderson and Buck say: “The simplicity of the Gospel was corrupted, pompous rites and ceremonies were introduced, worldly honours and emoluments were conferred on the teachers of Christianit, and the Kingdom of Christ in good measure converted into a kingdom of this world.â€(Theological Dictionary, 1852)
 
Regardless of Malcolm Muggeridge's acceptance of Catholicism, it is apparent that he failed to carefully examine the evidence. If a judge disregards weighty evidence in a court trial that shows the defendant guilty and releases him, is this justice ? If a doctor prescribes medication that was found to produce dangerous side effects, such as Vioxx that was removed from the market in 2004, would this practice be acceptable ? Where is justice ? For example, many people disregard the overwhelming evidence that smoking is a known carcinogen. Yet, millions take up smoking or continue to smoke, despite all the facts showing it to be deadly, causing emphysema and cancer.

Just because something has crushing evidence against it, does not prevent people from accepting it. Some people never examine any evidence, just accept something on face value. Have you not read where Jesus described two roads, in which he said: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14)

Jesus readily saw that most people would be casual about their life, not willing to seriously consider any evidence, to somberly give thought to the Bible and it's teachings. Only few give deep thought to what is right and wrong and are willing to make the needed changes to please God, to be on the ' cramped road'.

The vast majority of people are unwilling to critically investigate religious teachings, looking for "the truth", and as the apostle Paul wrote, have "exchanged the truth of God for the lie."(Rom 1:25) For example, though the Bible condemns homosexuality, many, even in the churches, are accepting it as okay.(Rom 1:26, 27)

Even the pope now, Bendict XVI, admits that when he was Archbishop Ratzinger, allowed a transfer of a pedophile priest in Germany, Peter Hullermann, from Essen to the Munich Archdiocese in 1980, without examining the evidence and then later returned to "full pastoral duties", who in 1986, was convicted of sexually abusing children in the Bavarian town of Grafing, receiving a suspended prison sentnce and fine, and was "then allowed to again work among children".(Time article, Vatican Moves into Damage Control on Sex-Abuse Scandal, March 16, 2010) The Vatican immediately went on the defense.

In addition, Bernard Law, who was the Archbishop of Boston when the sex-abuse scandal broke in 2002, failed to speak up, with his "reticence to speak up and take full responsibility only deepened the pain of the victims and anger of the faithful...(with) those seeking justice in Law's story find(ing) little to satisfy them....Cardinal Law wound up in the highly prestigious role of Archpriest of the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, one of the oldest and most beautiful properties of the Holy See."(Time article, Vatican Moves into Damage Control on Sex-Abuse Scandal, March 16, 2010)

Moving a scandalous priest from one place to another is the norm for the Catholic church. Thus, the Catholic church has continue to allow that which God condemns, just as Constantine fused both pagan and so-called "Christianity" into the one "catholic" or "universal" religion, to keep his empire from crumbling.

It was only with Constantine's support that the "catholic" religion became the official State religion of Rome. Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion, explains: “Christian bishops, once targets for arrest, torture, and execution, now received tax exemptions, gifts from the imperial treasury, prestige, and even influence at court; their churches gained new wealth, power, and prominence.†They had become friends of the emperor, friends of the Roman world.(James 4:4)
 
Vic C. said:
I'm still not seeing any real correlation to eschatology in the latest posts. If we can't make a connection to end Times events, the Staff will have to close this thread.

Sorry, but my allowing RCC related posts here is based on End Times talk.
Instead of closing it, why don't you move it to Apologetics & Theology.
 
Back
Top