Chained In The Abyss

[journeymanisnothing]

Could be California . But one verse said hell .

I meant a condition, not a U.S. state, but that's ok. Maybe Christians forget how Jesus released them from bondage.

I am getting out right now .... out of this thread

You're welcome back anytime. Just don't ever go back to prison you were in.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

So, where do Peter or Jude write that all angels who fell were "chained in darkness"? Nowhere.
This is an addition to their words you're making, an assumption, really, that you're foisting on what they wrote.

The chains are made of darkness.

We know from other places in Scripture that, in fact, not all fallen angels - demons - have ended up chained in darkness, but that the devil and legions of demons are quite active, possessing people, resisting and corrupting God's saints,

And people who don't know our Lord do the same things. They're not free. They're in darkness.

the devil himself even tempting Christ directly, possessing Judas and desiring to "sift Peter like wheat."

Matthew 4:1
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Mark 9:25-26
25 And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”
26 And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out...

Matthew 8:28-32
28 And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way.
29 And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”
30 Now a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them.
31 And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.”
32 And he said to them, “Go.” So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters.

Luke 22:3-4
3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.
4 He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them.

Luke 22:31
31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;

In light of these and other passages in Scripture that plainly indicate that demonic agents have, and are, operating in the world, the assumption you've made that all fallen angels - demons - are chained in darkness cannot be reasonably sustained. To do so requires an ever-expanding adaptation of the Bible to this one mistaken assumption. In such an approach to Scripture there is only error, falsehood and darkness. Beware!

Theologians also add to Peter and Judes' words by teaching only some fallen angels are bound. They don't understand how an angel in chains of darkness can still do evil.

False teachers think this way,

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jn.8:33

We know the evil they did to our Savior and his disciples, while they themselves were bound.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Sure, if you want to interpret it that way. I don't think angels can repent either

There's no way else to interpret chain = darkness.

 

[Tenchi]

The chains are made of darkness.

No. They are chained in, or under, darkness, not by darkness, nor by chains of darkness.

And people who don't know our Lord do the same things. They're not free. They're in darkness.

And so?

Theologians also add to Peter and Judes' words by teaching only some fallen angels are bound. They don't understand how an angel in chains of darkness can still do evil.

There's no addition to Peter's or Jude's words I have to make to say that not all fallen angels are chained in darkness. As I've pointed out, neither of them wrote that all angels were so chained. And then, I have other places in Scripture that indicate that not all fallen angels were chained up (see my earlier post). So, again, no additions on my part are necessary, which should indicate to folks that I'm being more faithful to God's word than you have been and thus closer to the truth of things concerning the demonic.

False teachers think this way,

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jn.8:33

We know the evil they did to our Savior and his disciples, while they themselves were bound.

??? You are making more assumptions here about the nature of the bondage in the verse you've cited from John 8, and the legitimacy of a parallel between the Pharisees lack of freedom ("bondage") and the fallen angels chained in darkness.

 

[TonyChanYT]

There's no way else to interpret chain = darkness.

Can you prove that by FOL? If not, what kind of logic are you using to arrive at that? Are you not over-generalizing and jumping to conclusions?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No. They are chained in, or under, darkness, not by darkness, nor by chains of darkness.

Chains of iron are made of iron.
chains of darkness 2Pet.2:4

And so?

Sin this world we're looking at the truth of scripture through a mirror of what is really heavenly. People chained by darkness do a lot of evil but

We stumble at noonday as at twilight;
We are as dead men in desolate places. Isa.59:10

This is no different from the description of fallen angels confined in desolate dark place. Except for them there appears to be no escape.

Tenchi:
There's no addition to Peter's or Jude's words I have to make to say that not all fallen angels are chained in darkness. As I've pointed out, neither of them wrote that all angels were so chained. And then, I have other places in Scripture that indicate that not all fallen angels were chained up (see my earlier post). So, again, no additions on my part are necessary, which should indicate to folks that I'm being more faithful to God's word than you have been and thus closer to the truth of things concerning the demonic.

I guess a better way of thinking of it is show people are enslaved by sin. Although nobody who sins is walking in light. They might be going for a jog on a nice sunny day, but they'll be jogging in darkness enslaved to sin... not free.

??? You are making more assumptions here about the nature of the bondage in the verse you've cited from John 8, and the legitimacy of a parallel between the Pharisees lack of freedom ("bondage") and the fallen angels chained in darkness.

I think maybe we should consider the fact that demons who are allegedly the worst of the worst couldn't do more damage than what has been done since they're been gone.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. 1Sam.19:23

Seems such a good thing that witchcraft practicing, stubborn, Satan worshipping fallen angels are all locked up...for any of this type of rebellion.

Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king.” 1Sam.19:23

Of course, God is referring to Saul, but at least he could repent and before he died.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No. They are chained in, or under, darkness, not by darkness, nor by chains of darkness.

Chains of iron are made of iron.
chains of darkness 2Pet.2:4

This is a problem I see over and over again now: The complete reinterpretation of the way the early church understood what was taught, as if there was absolutely no communication between the apostles and those they passed on Christian tradition to. It's as if everyone knows better what the apostles taught than those who actually received their teachings directly, though we are now 2,000 years removed, but we can now just make up whatever we think "the Bible" says without the slightest qualms about contradicting Christianity orthodoxy because it's now become utterly irrelevant.

It's going to be increasing in the earth, to where absolutely ANYTHING under the sun will be taught in the name of "Christ," and all because of this singular error.

Journeyman, you have been solid in other areas, so it's highly disappointing that you are rejecting Christian teaching to teach false doctrine on this issue instead.
Hidden

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Can you prove that by FOL? If not, what kind of logic are you using to arrive at that? Are you not over-generalizing and jumping to conclusions?

I don't know what FOL means, but it's a simple matter of people understanding a phrase that doesn't seem to be "literally true" but is, even though people can't see it.

It's like saying, Let the dead bury their dead, or, That guy is a slave.

Theology asks, "When does all this stuff happen?" People who really love God ask, "How does all this stuff happen?"

It's why he said,

It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. Act.1:7

He later showed them how it happens. They found out when it happens when it couldn't happen to Jesus.

God did everything for us himself. He showed how whether you're a fallen angel or a human sinner, you're in a trap you'll never leave with Gods' forgivness. And we do need to be forgiven by a living person. God in fact, because all men get what they deserve, except when that man is God.

 

[CherubRam]

Fallen angels are chained until judgement day,

reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jde.1:5

into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2Pet.2:4

those who leave the paths of uprightness...
walk in the ways of darkness; Pro.2:13
the way of the wicked is like darkness; Pro.4:19
the fool walks in darkness. Ecc.2:14

Jude
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.

6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness (a parable) for that great Day of Judgment.


Angel is a Greek myth. The word "messenger" was replaced with the word "angel."


Book of Jude: New International Version (NIV)
Footnotes:
Jude 1:4 Or individuals who were marked out for condemnation

Jude 1:4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of an ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the lord Yahshua is the Messiah.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

This is a problem I see over and over again now: The complete reinterpretation of the way the early church understood what was taught, as if there was absolutely no communication between the apostles and those they passed on Christian tradition to. It's as if everyone knows better what the apostles taught than those who actually received their teachings directly, though we are now 2,000 years removed, but we can now just make up whatever we think "the Bible" says without the slightest qualms about contradicting Christianity orthodoxy because it's now become utterly irrelevant.

You're describing exactly the position Hebrew scholars took in 1st century Israel. They became so blind to what their own scriptures said that they persecuted him.

This is why formal education can be meaningless. We may not immediately recognize heresy. It only takes one misinderstanding to build false doctrine.

It's going to be increasing in the earth, to where absolutely ANYTHING under the sun will be taught in the name of "Christ," and all because of this singular error.

Journeyman, you have been solid in other areas, so it's highly disappointing that you are rejecting Christian teaching to teach false doctrine on this issue instead.
Hidden

The rabbis accused Jesus' disciples of breaking the law for picking grain on the holy day, but our Lord kept the law of Moses in the Spirit of how Moses was saying it to a tee. That's what caused the error. They didn't hear what Mises was really saying.

They accused Paul of the same thing because he said dietary laws weren't necessary. Paul never said believers don't need to obey Moses anymore to be saved.

People who understand what Moses said understand that Gods' law was meant to be pointed at self. When that happens, we our see wrongdoing perfectly. We understand plainly how we've sinned.

If we truly understand the sins that mankind inflicted on Gods' own Son,
we
shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zec.12:10

Like it happened to our own child? See the sacrifice of Christ...as if it happened to my own child? See it as if my own child lived in sacrifice to God only did good and was savagely beaten mocked and killed.

People who believe the God who loves was happy about this are described in the Bible as being "past feeling" and "without natural affection"

I know God placed natural affection within every human being and by that affection, I as a father don't need any scholar to teach me that.

 

[CherubRam]

The parabolic meaning of "abyss" is "deep unknown."
Annihilationism is taught in the bible

Annihilationism is taught in the bible | Christian Forum

Annihilationism is taught in the bible Annihilationism (also known as extinctionism or destructionism) is a belief that after the final judgment some

christianforum.boards.net

 

[Hidden In Him]

You're describing exactly the position Hebrew scholars took in 1st century Israel. They became so blind to what their own scriptures said that they persecuted him.

And you are telling me the entire early church was blind as well.

This is why formal education can be meaningless. We may not immediately recognize heresy. It only takes one misinderstanding to build false doctrine.

I'm recognizing it immediately, Lol, and rejection of all formal education is yet another thing that leads to anything under the sun being taught as "scriptural."

Teach what you wish, but the next time you see rank heresy being taught, you are unfortunately part of it, so there won't be much difference.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Jude
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.

40 years later.

6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness (a parable) for that great Day of Judgment.

Like this,

the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches....I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev.1:20, 2:5

Angel is a Greek myth. The word "messenger" was replaced with the word "angel."


Book of Jude: New International Version (NIV)
Footnotes:
Jude 1:4 Or individuals who were marked out for condemnation

Jude 1:4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of an ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the lord Yahshua is the Messiah.

As long as Christians are aware that Jude is saying wicked men will claim Jesus was
immoral and therefore couldn't be the Messiah. That's what Caiaphas thought about Jesus.

And that filthy idea is no different from the heretical belief that God regarded his Son as sinful and served justice on him.

Turning our Saviors grace, his decision not to slay people who thought of him as unclean in Gods' eyes, is the exact opposite of what congregations are teaching in every Protestant chuch iI've ever been in.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

And you are telling me the entire early church was blind as well.

I'm telling you you're assertion that early church writings by those who reportedly knew the Apostles were not agreed upon by the majority as being completely true, because they were excluded from cannon. Some believed them inspired. The majority didn't.

I'm recognizing it immediately, Lol, and rejection of all formal education is yet another thing that leads to anything under the sun being taught as "scriptural."

I never said I reject all formal education, or that formal education at every point in history is worthless. You're just twisting what I said.

Teach what you wish, but the next time you see rank heresy being taught, you are unfortunately part of it, so there won't be much difference.

I really never read extrabiblical writings. I do remember reading a couple things you might know about. I don't recall which book it came from, or even if I remember it correctly, but the story goes,

Good angels in heaven were angry about the ungratefulness of man. So they asked permission to go down to earth and chastise them. The way they would do this is by transforming themselves into men who were stronger than normal men, so that when ordinary men needed a whack the very strong angel men could correct them that way.
Well, God gave them permussion to do this, but when these nobel angels turned human they decided instead of correcting men, they'd do the horizontal bop with women. And the angels who didn't wear a rubber impregnated the earth women who gave birth to giants.

I don't know the reasons why the early church counsils stopped that story from going to press (just an expression, as printing came much later), but,

the Bible says giants were already on earth before the alleged man angels had sex with women.

Also, the Bible clearly shows how often God chastised and sometimes condemned normal men with other normal men who had a more brutal army.

Jesus did preach repentance through Noah by the Holy Spirit to sinners in prison, enslaved by sin, preaching repentance and whose spirits were then imprisoned by death. Noah warned the sinners of his day for about 100 years.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just forthe unjust, that he might bring usto God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometimewere disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

for bearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Heb.2:4

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom.3:21

In other words,

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psa.51:4

 

[TonyChanYT]

I don't know what FOL means

First Order Logic

 

[CherubRam]

40 years later.

Like this,

the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches....I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev.1:20, 2:5

As long as Christians are aware that Jude is saying wicked men will claim Jesus was
immoral and therefore couldn't be the Messiah. That's what Caiaphas thought about Jesus.

And that filthy idea is no different from the heretical belief that God regarded his Son as sinful and served justice on him.

Turning our Saviors grace, his decision not to slay people who thought of him as unclean in Gods' eyes, is the exact opposite of what congregations are teaching in every Protestant chuch iI've ever been in.

I have no clue as to what you are saying.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm telling you you're assertion that early church writings by those who reportedly knew the Apostles were not agreed upon by the majority as being completely true, because they were excluded from cannon. Some believed them inspired. The majority didn't.

Journeyman, the subject matter was tradition, not inherency or the canon. You think everything which is not canon should be thrown out and rejected en toto? Then you must either believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is pure canon or you are being hypocritical about it, yes?

I never said I reject all formal education, or that formal education at every point in history is worthless. You're just twisting what I said.

I know what you said, but that was the tenor of your post. Those who respect the fact that formal education does have some value are not going to make derogatory statements like that so easily. Those who have little to no education or respect for education will do so, however, and flippantly. Without qualification, your statement was leaning well into the latter camp.

I really never read extrabiblical writings. I do remember reading a couple things you might know about. I don't recall which book it came from, or even if I remember it correctly, but the story goes,

Good angels in heaven were angry about the ungratefulness of man. So they asked permission to go down to earth and chastise them. The way they would do this is by transforming themselves into men who were stronger than normal men, so that when ordinary men needed a whack the very strong angel men could correct them that way.
Well, God gave them permussion to do this, but when these nobel angels turned human they decided instead of correcting men, they'd do the horizontal bop with women. And the angels who didn't wear a rubber impregnated the earth women who gave birth to giants.

I don't know the reasons why the early church counsils stopped that story from going to press (just an expression, as printing came much later), but,

the Bible says giants were already on earth before the alleged man angels had sex with women.

Also, the Bible clearly shows how often God chastised and sometimes condemned normal men with other normal men who had a more brutal army.

Jesus did preach repentance through Noah by the Holy Spirit to sinners in prison, enslaved by sin, preaching repentance and whose spirits were then imprisoned by death. Noah warned the sinners of his day for about 100 years.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just forthe unjust, that he might bring usto God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometimewere disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

for bearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Heb.2:4

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Rom.3:21

In other words,

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Psa.51:4

I can't go into all that, Lol. My apologies but I don't have the time unfortunately. But you should try reading extrabiblical material, and especially the early fathers. The more deeply you get into New Testament theology, the more clearly you will recognize the same exact things being taught in the fathers of the first two centuries, and it's because they were teaching the same traditions handed down to the church from the beginning.

Please reconsider this teaching you are giving. There are many who are almost completely irretrievable, having closed their minds off to even when the grammar of the original languages makes their interpretations completely impossible. But they have closed their ears completely. I would hate to see that happen to you.

God bless, and have a great Sunday.
Hidden

 

[Tenchi]

Chains of iron are made of iron.
chains of darkness 2Pet.2:4

2 Peter 2:4 (NASB)
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

2 Peter 2:4 (ASV)
4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:4 (WYC)
4 For if God spared not angels sinning, but betook them to be tormented, and to be drawn down with bonds of hell into hell [but betook them to be tormented, drawn down with bonds of hell into hell], to be kept into doom;
2 Peter 2:4 (RSV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell[a] and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment;
Looking further into this verse, I examined all the English translations of it I could find (some sixty of them) and saw that several versions referred not at all to "chains" but only to "caves of darkness/deep gloom" or "pits of darkness." The majority of versions, however, included "chains of darkness" or "chains of gloomy darkness," or even "chained in gloomy caves." Why do some versions of the verse speak of "chains," and others only of "pits" or "caves," and others still of "chained in pits (or caves)"? The Greek word "seiros," or "siros," is the problem.

Greek Word: σιρός
Transliterated Word: siros
Root: a prim. word;
Definition: a pit (for grain storage):--

(New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.)


Greek Word: σειρά
Transliteration: seira
Phonetic Pronunciation:si-rah'
Root: probably from <G4951> through its congener eiro (to fasten, akin to <G138>)
Part of Speech: n f

probably from <G4951> (suro) through its congener eiro (to fasten; akin to <G138> (haireomai)); a chain (as binding or drawing) :- chain.

(Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.)

Whichever version of the verse one follows, neither "siros" nor "seiros" actually refer explicitly, or directly, to "chains." The main idea expressed by "siros" or "seiros" in 2 Peter 2:4 isn't what holds the fallen angels, but that they are held in darkness. It is actually something of a descriptive flourish to say that "chains" bind the fallen angels in a "pit (or cave) of deep gloom (darkness)."

Anyway, this is all "straining at a gnat," as far as I'm concerned; a red-herring actually. Your initial contention from 2 Peter 2:4 was that all fallen angels were bound in the Pit, which, as has been shown, is not what Peter wrote. Not one English version of the verse includes "all" or "every" in reference to the fallen angels held in the Pit.

Sin this world we're looking at the truth of scripture through a mirror of what is really heavenly. People chained by darkness do a lot of evil but

But you haven't provided Scripture that describes people "chained in darkness doing a lot of evil." Such people would be chained figuratively, not literally, of course; are you saying, then, that the fallen angels in the Pit are likewise only bound figuratively? And, again, is this parallel you're trying to draw between the figurative "binding" of sinful people in "darkness" and the binding of fallen angels in the Pit a legitimate one? It doesn't seem so to me. There is nothing in Peter's description in 2 Peter 2:4, nor in its immediate context, that suggests he is speaking figuratively.

We stumble at noonday as at twilight;
We are as dead men in desolate places. Isa.59:10

This is no different from the description of fallen angels confined in desolate dark place. Except for them there appears to be no escape.

Isaiah 59:10 is clearly a figurative description. 2 Peter 2:4 is not.

I guess a better way of thinking of it is show people are enslaved by sin. Although nobody who sins is walking in light. They might be going for a jog on a nice sunny day, but they'll be jogging in darkness enslaved to sin... not free.

This is a deflection from my point that there is no "all" or "every" in 2 Peter 2:4 in reference to the fallen angels. You've added this universality to the verse.

I think maybe we should consider the fact that demons who are allegedly the worst of the worst couldn't do more damage than what has been done since they're been gone.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,
And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. 1Sam.19:23

Seems such a good thing that witchcraft practicing, stubborn, Satan worshipping fallen angels are all locked up...for any of this type of rebellion.

Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king.” 1Sam.19:23

Of course, God is referring to Saul, but at least he could repent and before he died.

This is all entirely ignoring my point.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

First Order Logic

I've never heard of it. I've come to understand that scripture should be interpreted by whose logic is being used, Gods' or mans'.

Gods' logic says Jesus came in stead of our Father to teach us about how God wants us to love others as he does, but was shamefully sinned against. Jesus had every right to condemn them according to their own law, but would not do so, despite the unlawful horror being committed against him.
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. Jn.5:45

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col.2:14

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances Eph.2:14

God on earth corrected sinners by the law, but never condemned anyone according to the law,

He did this as an example to us that men judge other men for committing the same sins they do and subsequently condemn themselves,

Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy:who art thou that judgest another? Jas.4:11-12

Their lawgiver wasn't really buried on the other side of Jordan. Their Lawgiver was hanging from a cross,

Gods' logic sees his Son suffering injustice according to what his law says.

...[b{when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God, [/b]for even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Gods' logic says his law only condemns the guilty, not the innocent,

the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, 1Tim.1:9

Gods' logic says Jesus could have imposed the law against those thought of him as sinful, but chose not to. God the Son,

did no sin neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not;

Gods' logic says Jesus decided to wait for God to judge people who sinned against against him. The Son,

committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

The truth is, the One who will ultimately Judge sinners is the One they falsely accused and condemned,

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son Jn.5:22

The logic of God says seeing how he was sinned against should cause repentance,

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pet.2:21-24

And so,

How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Rom.6:2

to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isa.66:2

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Pro.28:13

Mans' logic says evil men thought of Jesus as a filthy sinner and God agreed with them. This is heresy plain and simple.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I have no clue as to what you are saying.

It doesn't seem to matter.