Chanting

[Kathi]

What do you think the Bible says about chanting?

 

[Blake]

I've never heard it say anything about it personally.

I guess it comes down to being a heart issue. I've heard Christian chant which was very beautiful. I've heard pagan chanting which was nice aesthetically but obviously displeasing to God.

 

[Malachi]

What do you think the Bible says about chanting?

There is just one use of the word "chant" in the Bible, and it is in connection with those who are at ease in the time of unrighteousness (Amos 6:5): "That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick,like David". This is definitely not worship, but entertainment. Today, the Emergent Church Movement is bringing in the mysticism and chanting of paganism into "Christian" churches. God says "Woe unto them that are at ease in Zion" (Amos 6:1).

 

[Jesse]

The word chant, in Hebrew, means to divide words into parts, scatter empty words, here you go:

[מָּרַט] verb very dubious,
Qal Participle plural הַמֹּרְטִים עַלמִּֿי הַנָּ֑בֶל Amos 6:5 (Late Hebrew break off, divide, so Syriac ; Late Hebrew מְּרוּטָה, Aramaic מְּרִיטָא, small coin, change, hence) AW Ra AE Ki divide words into parts (in singing), AV chant; and Thes scatter (compare מֶּרֶט) empty words; possibly also would be stammer (of broken speech; said contemptuously): — (Arabic is precede, act hastily, IV. act extravagantly, talk immoderately (see further DrAm. 236), hence) AW (as alternative) improvise carelessly, idly.

 

[Kathi]

(Edited, copyright infringement, Obadiah)

 

[Malachi]

God warns us in Jer. 10:2, “Learn not the way of the heathen,” but heathenism is exactly what some Emergent Church leaders are teaching. The Bible gives no support for chanting, centering prayer, yoga, beads, candles, incense, labyrinths, breathe prayers, etc. The Roman Catholic Church brought all those from paganism and baptized them into “Christianity.” I don’t think anything has shocked me in my entire ministry like seeing Evangelicals wade waist deep into pagan practices and call it “a return to Christianity”! The New Age (which is really old) has arrived in our churches!

http://donboys.cstnews.com/pagan-practices-taught-by-emergent-church

 

[Gary]

There is just one use of the word "chant" in the Bible, and it is in connection with those who are at ease in the time of unrighteousness (Amos 6:5): "That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick,like David". This is definitely not worship, but entertainment. Today, the Emergent Church Movement is bringing in the mysticism and chanting of paganism into "Christian" churches. God says "Woe unto them that are at ease in Zion" (Amos 6:1).

And the majority involved in this movement don't even know it. To them, they're just getting closer to God.

 

[AirDancer]

Some churches seem to encourage the congregations to sing the same verse & chorus over and over and over again, to the point where the brain just kinda goes numb.

To me, this would be chanting for the wrong reason.

 

[Kathi]

Some churches seem to encourage the congregations to sing the same verse & chorus over and over and over again, to the point where the brain just kinda goes numb.

To me, this would be chanting for the wrong reason.

I heard that some chanting can put people in a trance and that is dangerous.

 

[Blake]

Not all chanting is of evil.

 

[Kathi]

Not all chanting is of evil.

No it is not.Just the situations that I posted in post #5.Some of the chanting that Monks do I have liked but I can not understand half of it which makes me cautious.

 

[AirDancer]

Very true, Blake. I think of some of the beautiful Gregorian chants.

 

[Blake]

No it is not.Just the situations that I posted in post #5.Some of the chanting that Monks do I have liked but I can not understand half of it which makes me cautious.

It is a wise thing to be cautious. Too many people let their emotions dictate whether something is true or not, when Jeremiah says the heart is wicked, and no one can truly understand it.

Very true, Blake. I think of some of the beautiful Gregorian chants.

I was Orthodox and know a little less about the Gregorian style, but what I've heard I've enjoyed. I heard mostly the Russian style, it still evokes a sense of serenity and holiness. Almost makes me want to strike up a censer and chant Psalms. It's all an issue of the heart. Vain repetitions are meaningless, but I have known too many pious people who undoubtedly reached the throne of heaven with their praises, and if I am judging the things I hear by the fruit they produce, then the chant is indeed pleasing to the Lord.

I believe after the Reformation, people were raised into a culture where anything remotely "Roman" is automatically shunned or shied away from. It's a shame though. From where I sit I sympathize with the liturgical churches AND Martin Luther at the same time. I am a very odd Christian! John Chrysostom one day and TD Jakes the next, bouncing from Casting Crowns to Russian chant.

 

[Malachi]

Some churches seem to encourage the congregations to sing the same verse & chorus over and over and over again, to the point where the brain just kinda goes numb.

Perhaps that's the objective. But Paul said (1 Cor 14:15): "...I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I WILL SING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING also."

This is similar to vain repetition in prayer. If one has not investigated pagan practices, Christians should be aware that the rosary of the Catholics exists among Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, etc. Some call them "prayer beads", but it is the same idea of "vain repetition among the heathen" which Christ condemned (Mt 6:7). The buzzword today however, is "interspirituality" among the Emergents. They simply haven't invited the shamans as yet.

 

[AirDancer]

. I am a very odd Christian! John Chrysostom one day and TD Jakes the next, bouncing from Casting Crowns to Russian chant.

And for those reasons, you are becoming well-rounded in your Christianity, Blake!

 

[Blake]

Just wanted to share the lyrics to the video I posted above:

"Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Behold, the Bridegroom cometh at midnight and blessed is the servant whom He shall find watching, but unworthy is the servant whom He shall find heedless. Beware, therefore, O my soul, do not be laid down with sleep, lest you be given up to death, and be shut out of the Kingdom. But rouse yourself, crying: Holy, Holy, Holy, art Thou, O God! Through the Mother of God, have mercy on us!"

I know that it will open a can of worms perhaps with the "Mother of God" line. It's harmless, there is no secret Marian worship, it's just an old early church apologetic which asserts the Christian truth that Jesus Christ was and is both fully man and fully God, which carried over from a time of heresy when the church was being combated which stated Jesus was not fully God. "Mother of God" is a title which asserts that Jesus is fully God. Mary prays for Christians before her Son, as do a great cloud of witnesses, the saints in Christ who have went to be with Him in paradise.

I'm no longer Orthodox, but I felt like that needed to be clarified.

And for those reasons, you are becoming well-rounded in your Christianity, Blake!

God has had different things to teach me everywhere I've went! I thank Him for that sincerely. Christendom is broad and varied, just as the physical body of man is broad and varied. Discernment from the Holy Spirit will let you know what's unpleasing to the Lord.

 

[AirDancer]

I have no problems with the term "Mother of God" in reference to Jesus' mother, Blake. The video you posted was not promoting any sort of Marian worship.

As a side note of historical trivia, when Mary Tudor became Queen of England upon the death of her young brother in 1553, there was a resurgence in Marian worship. In part, it was due to Mary's return of the Roman faith as the predominant religion in England. As part of the Marian cult, Queen Mary was elevated in level of worship as well. Upon her death in 1558, her position on the pedestal was replaced with Mary, Queen of Scots & future queen of France.

 

[AirDancer]

Perhaps that's the objective. But Paul said (1 Cor 14:15): "...I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I WILL SING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING also."

This is similar to vain repetition in prayer. If one has not investigated pagan practices, Christians should be aware that the rosary of the Catholics exists among Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, etc. Some call them "prayer beads", but it is the same idea of "vain repetition among the heathen" which Christ condemned (Mt 6:7). The buzzword today however, is "interspirituality" among the Emergents. They simply haven't invited the shamans as yet.

The Emergents are definitely a group about which to be aware, Malachi. The sad thing is there are many who firmly believe the Emergents' way is the 'right' way.

 

[Deborah13]

Just wanted to share the lyrics to the video I posted above:

"Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Behold, the Bridegroom cometh at midnight and blessed is the servant whom He shall find watching, but unworthy is the servant whom He shall find heedless. Beware, therefore, O my soul, do not be laid down with sleep, lest you be given up to death, and be shut out of the Kingdom. But rouse yourself, crying: Holy, Holy, Holy, art Thou, O God! Through the Mother of God, have mercy on us!"

I know that it will open a can of worms perhaps with the "Mother of God" line. It's harmless, there is no secret Marian worship, it's just an old early church apologetic which asserts the Christian truth that Jesus Christ was and is both fully man and fully God, which carried over from a time of heresy when the church was being combated which stated Jesus was not fully God. "Mother of God" is a title which asserts that Jesus is fully God. Mary prays for Christians before her Son, as do a great cloud of witnesses, the saints in Christ who have went to be with Him in paradise.

I'm no longer Orthodox, but I felt like that needed to be clarified.



God has had different things to teach me everywhere I've went! I thank Him for that sincerely. Christendom is broad and varied, just as the physical body of man is broad and varied. Discernment from the Holy Spirit will let you know what's unpleasing to the Lord.

You're not so strange. One of my favorite men to listen to is a Karaite Jew by the name of Nahemia Gordon who lives in Israel. He was raised in the US, Orthodox Jew of the Rabbical flavor, from a long line of Rabbis.
I was watching him today and he told a story about how he was with a Christian pastor friend on the Mt Moses and how God touched him. He said he had never felt anything like that in his whole life. He was in tears and so was I.

 

[Willie T]

Wasn't the Jewish (and early "church") equivalent of what we now understand as the singing of hymns, no more than chanting?

I would really like to understand this, because if that is so, then it would make those of us who sing typical songs in church, much farther removed from accurate historical example than people who have chanting in their services, would it not?