Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 2:9-12

Hidden In Him

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The "Wisdom" Of Blaspheming Angels, The Instruments Of God's Wrath

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Just how much destruction can one angel of God bring? Scripture states that it was the angels of God who brought judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah, and as covered in the previous study this likely involved opening up the fault line that runs through that region, known today as the Dead Sea Transform Fault. What is astonishing, however, is that the text actually states it was two angels alone who brought all the destruction that eventually annihilated five entire cities.

1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground... 12 Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Son-in-law, your sons, your daughters, and whomever you have in the city - take them out of this place! 13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord,and the Lord has sent us to destroy it." (Genesis 19:1, 12-13)

Another Biblical account states that one angel alone killed over 185,000 Assyrian soldiers, when the armies of Sennacherib were closing in on Jerusalem. King Hezekiah appealed to the Lord for help, and He sent in one angel alone. That's all that was needed to do the job.

15 Then Hezekiah prayed before the Lord, and said,... 16 "Incline Your ear, O Lord, and hear. Open Your eyes, O Lord, and see, and hear the words of Sennacherib, which he has sent to reproach the living God. 17 Truly, Lord, the kings of Assyria have laid waste to the nations and their lands, 18 and have cast their gods into the fire, for they were not gods, but the work of men's hands - wood and stone. Therefore they destroyed them. 19 Now therefore, O Lord our God, I pray, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the Lord God, You alone."... 35 And it came to pass on a certain night that the angel of the Lord went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand. And when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses - all dead. (2 Kings 19:15-19, 35)

The same occurred when Satan tried to seduce King David into depending upon Israel's strength of numbers rather than God's power. Judgment came, and one angel alone killed 70,000 men.

1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel... 7 And God was displeased with this thing, therefore He... sent a plague upon Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell. 15 And God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it. As he was destroying, the Lord looked and relented of the disaster, and said to the angel who was destroying, "It is enough. Now restrain your hand." And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. 16 Then David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, having in his hand a drawn sword stretched out over Jerusalem. (1 Chronicles 21:1,7, 14-16)

This, then, is the context behind Peter's next statements, where he now pointed out how ridiculous it was for the Gnostics to audaciously blaspheme God and His angels, presuming there was no reason to fear them. The word he used was literally "to blaspheme" (βλασφημέω), though here it carried more the sense of simply "to defame." But Peter's point was that those who actually knew what kind of destruction the angels of God could dish out would not be nearly so quick to be asking for it.

9 The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those walking after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and who have contempt for lordship. Daring and audacious, they do not tremble at blaspheming glorious angels, 11 whereas angels who are greater in strength and power do not bring against them a blasphemous charge before the Lord. 12 But these, as irrational beasts of nature, having been born for capture and corruption, blaspheme what they know nothing of, and will utterly perish in their own corruption. (2 Peter 3:9-12)

As stated in previous studies, the Gnostics taught that the God of the Jews and His angels "ruled the world ill because each one of them coveted the principal power for themselves," and that a man's actions were "not righteous in the nature of things, but by mere accident, as those angels who made the world thought fit to constitute them, seeking by means of such precepts to bring men into bondage." (Ireneaus, Against Heresies, XXII, 3). Satan used their ability to practice witchcraft to delude them into thinking they had the same powers as Jesus had, whom scripture says once calmed the seas.

Carpocrates, again, and his followers maintain that the world and the things which are therein were created by angels greatly inferior to the unbegotten Father.... The soul, therefore, which is like that of Christ can despise those rulers who were the creators of the world, and, in like manner, receives power for accomplishing the same results. This idea has raised them to such a pitch of pride, that some of them declare themselves similar to Jesus, while others, still more mighty, maintain that they are superior to his disciples such as Peter and Paul... For their souls, descending from the same sphere as ("Jesus" had) and therefore despising in like manner the creators of the world, are deemed worthy of the same power. (Ireneaus, Against Heresies XXV, 1-2)

They proclaim themselves as being perfect, so that no one can be compared to them with respect to the immensity of their knowledge, nor even were you to mention Paul or Peter or any other of the apostles... They also maintain that they have attained to a height above all power, and therefore they are free in every respect to act as they please, having no one to fear in anything. (Ireneaus, Against Heresies, XIII. 6)


This then was the ultimate deception, for scripture states that at Christ's return, it will be the very angels of God - those they thought had no power over them - who will round them up and throw them into the Lake of Fire.

38 The tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the Devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:38-42)


Biting Off A Piece

A curious question comes up at this point, however. What was Peter's point in bringing up how "angels who are greater in strength and power do not bring against them a blasphemous charge before the Lord"? The epistle of Jude is essentially a rewriting of 2nd Peter Chapter 2, and Jude worded it like this:

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile flesh, disregard lordship, and blaspheme glorious angels. 9 Yet in contending with the Devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, Michael the archangel dared not bring a reviling accusation against him, but said,"The Lord rebuke you!" 10 But these blaspheme what they do not know, yet like irrational beasts they become corrupted through what they observe naturally. (Jude 1:8-10)

Jewish tradition fills in most of the details here. Satan claimed that Moses should not receive a proper burial because he had killed an Egyptian man and didn't bury him, so he should reap what he had sown. His motivations for trying to keep the body from being buried were to bring it down to the Israelites, declare that Moses had been a sorcerer, and then turn the Israelites towards idolatry and the practice of magic with it. Michael by his power did not allow this, however, and in response replied, "The Lord rebuke you!"

But at the end of the same year in the twelfth month, on the seventh day, Moses the servant of God died and was buried on the fourth of the month of September on a certain mountain by the chief captain Michael. For the Devil contended with the angel, and would not permit his body to be buried, saying, "Moses is a murderer. He slew a man in Egypt and hid him in the sand." Then Michael prayed to God, and there was thunder and lightning, and suddenly the Devil disappeared. But Michael buried him with his hands. (The Slavonic Life of Moses 16)

Samael [i.e. Satan] tried to bring the body down to the people, so that they might make him a god. But Michael the chief captain, by the command of God, came to take him and removed him. Samael resisted him, and they fought. So the chief captain was angry and rebuked him, saying, "May the Lord rebuke you, Devil!" And so the adversary was defeated and took flight, but the archangel removed the body, and no one saw the burial place. (Palaea Historica)
 
Scripture confirms that no one knows where Moses was buried (Deuteronomy 34:6). But why did Michael decline to revile the Devil himself for attempting to use such evil tactics? Jude says that he dared not do it, with the context suggesting that despite being "greater in strength and power," he still respected Satan as a formidable adversary. The message then was this: Angels know what they are dealing with when facing one another, and that they are in for a fight. When Daniel sought revelation from God and Satan's ruling prince over the region refused to let Gabriel through to bring the answers, the result of that battle in the heavens was that Gabriel was detained for three full weeks until Michael finally broke through Satan's ranks to let him come.

5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude. 7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision, but a great terror fell upon them so that they fled to hide themselves. 8 Therefore I was left alone when I saw this great vision, and no strength remained in me... 10 Suddenly, a hand touched me, which made me tremble on my knees and on the palms of my hands. 11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you." While he was speaking this word to me, I stood trembling. 12 He then said to me, "Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days. And behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come." (Daniel 10:5-8, 10-14)


Angels Are Held Back

The thing that must be understood is that angels have emotions just like we do, and that includes anger. This is implied by Michael's response in wanting to tell Satan a few things, yet electing to simply say, "The Lord rebuke you!" instead. Satan's angels feel anger as well, and were it not for the protection of God they would annihilate us all, as was made plain enough in Harold Pittman's account of seeing one of the ruling princes of 2nd Heaven face to face:

We stopped in front of one group of demons who were engaged in social activity. The angels were in the process of explaining what was going on and then, I could suddenly hear a great noise that sounded like an army marching. Looking up, I saw this column of giant soldiers marching toward me. I noticed the demons stopped what they were doing and began to move out of the way of the approaching soldiers. Fascinated with the appearance of the approaching giants, I suddenly felt my escorting angels stiffen, as if they were turning to stone. I stiffened also, and did not move a muscle. It seemed that the marching army would walk right over us. When they reached a point approximately eight to ten feet from us, they suddenly swerved and went around us. One of the giants broke ranks and came up to me. Leaning down, he put his face eyeball to eyeball with mine and leered at me. Had I not been under the protection of the Holy Spirit, there would have been some sort of confrontation... It was obvious that these beings hated me and the angels with me. It was also obvious that, if they could have, they would have torn us apart... It was revealed to me that [these] demons are the "cream of Satan's crop," so to speak. They are his ruling order and from this group comes all his princes who are the rulers of darkness (Ephesians 6:12) and who are the rulers of principalities. They control spiritual wickedness in high places. (Demons: An Eyewitness Account, P.22)

In the book Angels On Assignment, Roland Buck related an account of the Archangel Michael having a similar zeal to one day cast the entire kingdom of darkness down to earth. It is a day he is now "anxiously" awaiting:

My attention was drawn to a special angel there, who was very huge and warlike! As I looked at him, I noticed that in spite of this fierceness, there was also a tremendous resemblance to Gabriel! I will never forget the eyes of this large angel because they looked like pools of fire! I was observing his strength and might when Gabriel very simply told me that God had sent his mightiest warring angel to clear away and push back those princes of darkness. I could hardly breathe, it was so awe-inspiring, because this was my introduction to Micheal!... Michael had come directly from the presence of God, and the power and force in my house was so strong that most of the day had gone by before I regained my strength. The human body is not made to contain the force that radiates from an angel like Michael, and it certainly had an impact on me! Michael said, until the appointed time, our task is not to destroy Satan but to scatter the forces of darkness, to hold them in abeyance, to overcome them, and to keep them from God's people." Then he said, "I have an assignment that I am anxiously awaiting where I am not going to have to show respect for Lucifer any more. That assignment is to sweep the heavens clean of Satan and every single one of his angels. We will not leave even one!" He said, "In case you are not aware of it, twenty-four hours a day there is some type of evil force accusing God's people of things he has already forgiven." Satan does not see things the way God sees them. He knows they are forgiven, but he keeps on accusing them anyway. "But," he said, "The heavens will be swept clean! Lucifer is going to try to fight, but he doesn't have a chance. If you want to read about what is coming, it is found in the twelfth chapter of Revelation, verses seven through ten." (Hunter, Angels On Assignment, Chapter 12)

If, then, the angels of God can be aroused to anger, how foolish for the Gnostics to audaciously dare them to execute judgment, practically asking to be tossed into eternal perdition? They not only blasphemed the heavenly host but the God who created them. Those who follow in their footsteps will therefore do so very foolishly. When the time comes that these angels are finally released to carry out God's judgment, it will not be a job they are forced to do but one they have been looking forward to for a very long time.

14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with myriads of His holy angels, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they committed in ungodliness, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against Him (and His angels)." (Jude 1:14-16)


Questions And Applications

1. What thoughts came to mind in reading through this study?

2. Have you ever witnessed an angel of God, or heard of read a testimony of someone who has?

3. Both Jude and Peter made reference to stories that are not explained within the pages of scripture itself. How do you feel about going outside scripture to understand what was being discussed?

4. A theoretical question: How do you believe spiritual warfare is conducted between angels of light and angels of darkness. They cannot kill one another since they are spirit, so what all takes place?

5. How much should we seek to know about angels? Apparently Peter knew enough about them for certain to correct the errors of the Gnostics.


A link to the full transcript of Angels On Assignment, by Francis Hunter.
 
Questions And Applications

1. What thoughts came to mind in reading through this study?
I wonder how much I've failed to see in the Scriptures about angels? And I wonder how much we can know or should know about them?

The Gnostic delusion brings us face to face with the occult, and we are warned against getting too close to the occult. On the other hand, good angels and fallen angels are a reality that does impact our world. And certainly we are to appreciate that to some degree?
2. Have you ever witnessed an angel of God, or heard of read a testimony of someone who has?
I've said before that my brother saw a large angel in the front of a church, I think standing next to the wall behind the altar area. He said it was enormous. I don't think he mentioned that anybody else saw him.

My brother is retired now, but at one time he pastored a pioneer church for the Christian and Missionary Alliance. The church is still thriving, as I understand it?

My own experience with a possible angel was when I broke the speeding laws on my motorcycle as a young man and picked up a hitchhiker, swerving back and forth for about a mile at night, showing off. A cop stopped me, and when I looked back the hitchhiker on the back of my back was no longer there. And the cop didn't even mention him. I got a big fat ticket!

When I met my wife I was backsliding and in a bar. God told me she didn't belong there, just like I didn't. Later, my wife, still not yet a Christian, told me she was in another bar when a strange funny-looking man sat down by her and said, "You don't belong here." She never saw him again. But soon after she gave her life to Christ. Then we got married.
3. Both Jude and Peter made reference to stories that are not explained within the pages of scripture itself. How do you feel about going outside scripture to understand what was being discussed?
Walter Martin, a cults expert I used to follow, had been asked by Buck about the Scripturalness of his new book, "Angels on Assignment?" Martin pointed out some theological defects in the book. Buck corrected those and published the book anyway. It leaves me not knowing how much is real?

I fully recognize that books and information outside of the Bible exist to corroborate truth. We just need discernment to know what is good and what isn't.

If it promotes the occult it isn't good. If it promotes division it isn't good. But there are some kinds of division caused by controversy that may be necessary, because not everybody will accept truth.
4. A theoretical question: How do you believe spiritual warfare is conducted between angels of light and angels of darkness. They cannot kill one another since they are spirit, so what all takes place?
Don't know. Maybe we can only understand it by comparing it to human warfare. For example, if an angel "wields a sword," I'm sure it is not a human sword that is being wielded. It is representative of something we cannot otherwise understand.

Biblical prophecy of the endtimes and the book of Revelation may have a lot of that kind of symbolism in them? We are given to know a limited amount about angelic warfare. But clearly, we are given to know it exists, in order to understand that our battle is not "carnal," and not to be operated by our own will or by our own strength.
 
I wonder how much I've failed to see in the Scriptures about angels? And I wonder how much we can know or should know about them?

The Gnostic delusion brings us face to face with the occult, and we are warned against getting too close to the occult. On the other hand, good angels and fallen angels are a reality that does impact our world. And certainly we are to appreciate that to some degree?

I was looking for questions to ask for this study, and that could actually be one of them, Randy, so I might just have to add it in. :ThumbBig
I've said before that my brother saw a large angel in the front of a church, I think standing next to the wall behind the altar area. He said it was enormous. I don't think he mentioned that anybody else saw him.

Did he say what looked like?
When I met my wife I was backsliding and in a bar. God told me she didn't belong there, just like I didn't. Later, my wife, still not yet a Christian, told me she was in another bar when a strange funny-looking man sat down by her and said, "You don't belong here." She never saw him again. But soon after she gave her life to Christ. Then we got married.

Praise God, LoL.
Walter Martin, a cults expert I used to follow, had been asked by Buck about the Scripturalness of his new book, "Angels on Assignment?" Martin pointed out some theological defects in the book. Buck corrected those and published the book anyway. It leaves me not knowing how much is real?

I fully recognize that books and information outside of the Bible exist to corroborate truth. We just need discernment to know what is good and what isn't.

I wasn't aware of that conversation. Sounds interesting. I may have to look it up.
Don't know. Maybe we can only understand it by comparing it to human warfare. For example, if an angel "wields a sword," I'm sure it is not a human sword that is being wielded. It is representative of something we cannot otherwise understand.

I have my own understanding of things, but I don't want to just answer it without giving others a crack at it : )

Thanks again for the responses. Gonna add your other question in, as I think that might be relevant.
 
Questions And Applications

1. What thoughts came to mind in reading through this study?


What came to mind were these angels in Revelation 11.

We see them with the Lord in Genesis 18, as the three of them appeared to Abraham in human form.

Then in Genesis 19 they continued to manifest as men, unbeknownst to the Sodomites they were angels.

These angels are the two witnesses that accompanied the Lord and were described in Zechariah 4:11-14 as two olive


Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”
Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.” Zechariah 4:11-14


Then we see them at the tomb on the morning of the resurrection as two witnesses to the resurrection.

And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. John 20:12


Then they appear in Revelation 11 as the two witnesses doing similar things as they did in Sodom.


These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. Revelation 11:4-5
 
What came to mind were these angels in Revelation 11.

We see them with the Lord in Genesis 18, as the three of them appeared to Abraham in human form.

Then in Genesis 19 they continued to manifest as men, unbeknownst to the Sodomites they were angels.

These angels are the two witnesses that accompanied the Lord and were described in Zechariah 4:11-14 as two olive


Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”
Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.” Zechariah 4:11-14


Then we see them at the tomb on the morning of the resurrection as two witnesses to the resurrection.

And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. John 20:12


Then they appear in Revelation 11 as the two witnesses doing similar things as they did in Sodom.


These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. Revelation 11:4-5

That’s interesting. I always thought the two witnesses were men.
 
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What came to mind were these angels in Revelation 11.

We see them with the Lord in Genesis 18, as the three of them appeared to Abraham in human form.

Then in Genesis 19 they continued to manifest as men, unbeknownst to the Sodomites they were angels.

These angels are the two witnesses that accompanied the Lord and were described in Zechariah 4:11-14 as two olive


Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?” And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”
Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”
And I said, “No, my lord.”
So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.” Zechariah 4:11-14


Then we see them at the tomb on the morning of the resurrection as two witnesses to the resurrection.

And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. John 20:12


Then they appear in Revelation 11 as the two witnesses doing similar things as they did in Sodom.


These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. Revelation 11:4-5

JLB, the only trouble with this interpretation is that the two witnesses are killed and their bodies lay dead in the street for three and a half days. The interpretation has a few things to its credit, but the “anointed ones” in Zechariah don’t necessarily have to be angels to be anointed. I think the fact that they die seems to contradict it too much. But it’s certainly thought-provoking, to say the least.
 
That’s interesting. I always thought the two witnesses were men.

They are, just as they were in Genesis 18.

Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground. Genesis 18:1-2
 
JLB, the only trouble with this interpretation is that the two witnesses are killed and their bodies lay dead in the street for three and a half days. The interpretation has a few things to its credit, but the “anointed ones” in Zechariah don’t necessarily have to be angels to be anointed. I think the fact that they die seems to contradict it too much. But it’s certainly thought-provoking, to say the least.

When angels are manifested in this realm as men, then they are subject it seems to the laws that govern this realm.

I think the Lord allowed them to do this thing as they had been with Him from the beginning and witnessed His suffering and resurrection.

It seems they desired this honor of serving as men and dying for their King.


This of course is just my opinion.

Hopefully you see the connecting language used in Zechariah 4 and
Revelation 11.


  • “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?”

  • These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
 
Did he say what looked like?
Well, I just heard back from my brother, and he's reserved. He says he doesn't know you or the environment, and considers his experience a sacred "gift from God." He said he would tell me more, but I'm not likely to betray his trust, no matter how interesting or helpful it may be to us all. Sorry!
 
Well, I just heard back from my brother, and he's reserved. He says he doesn't know you or the environment, and considers his experience a sacred "gift from God." He said he would tell me more, but I'm not likely to betray his trust, no matter how interesting or helpful it may be to us all. Sorry!

Not a big deal. I can understand him being reserved. Not everyone is friendly to those who have seen the things of God.
 
Not a big deal. I can understand him being reserved. Not everyone is friendly to those who have seen the things of God.
Yes, I think he is concerned his supernatural experience could be treated like a "trick." King Herod wanted to be entertained by Jesus' miracles. And Jesus would not accomodate him.

Mark did say that he felt it likely that this was not a case of treating this thing lightly. But not knowing the environment he didn't want to take the chance.

Maybe some time in the future when I can get one on one with him he will give me the boundaries of explaining his experience publicly? I know he explained it to me before--I just can't remember the details.

I can't even remember if he explained if there was a message behind the vision? That I'd really like to know, and I'm confident he'll tell me if I persist.
 
1. What thoughts came to mind in reading through this study?
I once watched a video where the man on the video spoke of him and another man calling down angels to protect them . This is wrong .
We pray to God/Jesus and let Him take the steps to answer your prayer , we have no authority to command angels
 
I once watched a video where the man on the video spoke of him and another man calling down angels to protect them . This is wrong .
We pray to God/Jesus and let Him take the steps to answer your prayer , we have no authority to command angels
Yea, I remember Hagin saying these kinds of things. The day angels start listening to me is the day they "lock me up."
 
I once watched a video where the man on the video spoke of him and another man calling down angels to protect them . This is wrong .
We pray to God/Jesus and let Him take the steps to answer your prayer , we have no authority to command angels
Yea, I remember Hagin saying these kinds of things. The day angels start listening to me is the day they "lock me up."

Actually, the interesting thing here is this. I do not believe in "delegated authority," as I think it is a false concept, within certain aspects of Christianity at least. All power forever remains in Christ's hands. But I do believe we can so enter into Him (especially corporately through prayer) to where He is speaking through the church. When that happens, angels can indeed be called down by us, only it is not actually us doing the calling.

Not sure if I communicated that clearly or not, but there is such a thing as having authority in Christ, it's just not delegated or automatic.
 
Actually, the interesting thing here is this. I do not believe in "delegated authority," as I think it is a false concept, within certain aspects of Christianity at least. All power forever remains in Christ's hands. But I do believe we can so enter into Him (especially corporately through prayer) to where He is speaking through the church. When that happens, angels can indeed be called down by us, only it is not actually us doing the calling.

Not sure if I communicated that clearly or not, but there is such a thing as having authority in Christ, it's just not delegated or automatic.
Yes, I had thought about that, and wondered if I should give a caveat to what I was saying? For example, I believe we've been given the "keys to the Kingdom." We are not directly "saving people from their sins," but we are being used by God to give them the Gospel, and in so doing "forgiving their sins."

"What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. What you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

That kind of thing. I do draw the line at "calling upon angels to do this or that." It seems very disrespectful to the angels to treat them as inferiors. And Peter warns us about that.

2 Pet 2.11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord.

If God told me to command the angels I suppose I would obey. But I might question whether the voice was really His? Do we see anywhere in Scriptures that God called upon people to order angels?
 
Yes, I had thought about that, and wondered if I should give a caveat to what I was saying? For example, I believe we've been given the "keys to the Kingdom." We are not directly "saving people from their sins," but we are being used by God to give them the Gospel, and in so doing "forgiving their sins."

"What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. What you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

That kind of thing. I do draw the line at "calling upon angels to do this or that." It seems very disrespectful to the angels to treat them as inferiors. And Peter warns us about that.

2 Pet 2.11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord.

If God told me to command the angels I suppose I would obey. But I might question whether the voice was really His? Do we see anywhere in Scriptures that God called upon people to order angels?

Well, it depends on how seriously one takes Paul’s theology about being “in Him.” Again, I do not teach that it is delegated, and any child with a Bible can somehow command the armies of God. But when the congregation of God are caught up in the Spirit and the Lord is speaking prophetically, He once said, “Do you not know that I can command a legion of angels?” The same is true today.

I will share a vision with you in a little while. It explains this principle better than I think I can.
 
If God told me to command the angels I suppose I would obey. But I might question whether the voice was really His?

Here is the vision that came to mind, Randy. The part I wanted to emphasize (in relation to what I was saying, that is) is this:

As the evil spirits spewed their vileness and slander upon the earth, I saw the people of God begin to pray. They prayed in the name of Jesus and in faith. As they prayed, the Word of God came against the evil spirits, which began to lose ground. As the saints prayed, the forces of evil lost their hold. Evil spells were broken. Those who had been weakened by the forces of Hell were strengthened.

When they prayed as in one voice, the angels of heaven entered the fray. I saw the holy angels fighting with the evil princes and powers of the air, and God's angels were destroying the powers of evil.


The only way the church prays as one voice is when they are caught up in the Spirit, and it is no longer they who are praying but the Lord praying through them.

Anyway, the vision in it's entirely is here:
 
Yes, I had thought about that, and wondered if I should give a caveat to what I was saying? For example, I believe we've been given the "keys to the Kingdom." We are not directly "saving people from their sins," but we are being used by God to give them the Gospel, and in so doing "forgiving their sins."
What you said here brought this verse to my mind John 20:23 , which I will post below , but I am not so sure we have this power as the apostles did . It was directly given to them from Jesus . Just want to add this :) .

John 20:23 Context​

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. 24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
 
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