Charles H. Spurgeon's Views

[JM]

Quote: He held a clear and consistent view of the "major" features of eschatology: namely the second coming of Christ, the eventual restoration of national Israel to their land and their corporate faith in Christ, the resurrections of the just and unjust, the millennial kingdom, the reality of heaven and the certainty of hell. On some other minor issues he either commented little or not at all. But all in all, the evidence is irrefutable that Spurgeon was a premillennialist of the "historic" or "covenantal" school.


One more premil for the books. ;-)

http://www.spurgeon.org/eschat.htm#ans-conc

 

[JM]

Spurgeon's Sermons Discussing "The Millennial Reign": If I read the word aright, and it is honest to admit that there is much room for difference of opinion here, the day will come, when the Lord Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, with the trump of the archangel and the voice of God. Some think that this descent of the Lord will be post-millennial  that is, after the thousand years of his reign. I cannot think so. I conceive that the advent will be pre-millennial; that he will come first; and then will come the millennium as the result of his personal reign upon earth [emphasis added].

 

[tim-from-pa]

Quote: He held a clear and consistent view of the "major" features of eschatology: namely the second coming of Christ, the eventual restoration of national Israel to their land and their corporate faith in Christ, the resurrections of the just and unjust, the millennial kingdom, the reality of heaven and the certainty of hell. On some other minor issues he either commented little or not at all. But all in all, the evidence is irrefutable that Spurgeon was a premillennialist of the "historic" or "covenantal" school.


One more premil for the books. ;-)

http://www.spurgeon.org/eschat.htm#ans-conc

Sound right to me!

Regarding the millennial reign, I take an uncommon approach as to why I believe this will be here on earth and thus takes a second coming to fulfill. The answer is merely in Luke 1:32 where Jesus will one day have the throne. But the Davidic throne is the earthly throne of the Lord. It is not the same one as in heaven. I don't know where people get the idea that it was somehow magically transferred to heaven with Christ, even though it is quite clear he took no throne here on this earth (John 18:36)

People who spiritaulize the throne of David severely misunderstand the original purpose of God to establish the Kingdom here on this Earth starting with Adam, and intends to do so again---- one of the goals and purpose in the bible. In addition, the earth is so important that God will create a new heavens and new earth one day---- not just a heaven.

Besides, I take interest in this slant of the throne being earthly because of my involvement in genealogy, and anything national is just big family (i.e., Israel)

 

[MrVersatile48]

Zechariah 14 is clear that, after He slaughters Antichrist armies at Armageddon, Christ will rule Earth from Jerusalem - entering it via the east gate of the temple

Revelation 20 is also clear about Him personally establishing perfect peace & justice on Earth, after defeating His enemies in literal, physical battle - Rev 16 shows R Euphrates drying up to pave the way for oriental troops to invade Israel as the the trigger for Armageddon

Isaiah 11 shows the wild animals as no longer wild

Isaiah 65-66 show other details: far too many physical details altogether to ignore

Spiritualising everything means having to invent the most ridiculous explanations for just too many things - it's really lack of faith that God really is Almighty, that He can & will do exactly what He promises

Link to the 1st of a series of @ 7/8 daily readings about prophecies already fulfilled by Christ:-

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 949#310949

There are many more @ His return, as God had the consummation of all things in mind even before making the universe

Happy & blessed Christmas!

Ian

 

[JM]

There's literal and literalistic way of understanding the Bible.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Spiritualising everything means having to invent the most ridiculous explanations for just too many things - it's really lack of faith that God really is Almighty, that He can & will do exactly what He promises

Ian: I agree 110% with your statement. It's amazing how I can quote the plain scripture regarding something (for example, Acts 1:11) and then those who do not believe in a literal return come up with a reason why it does not mean what it says. But if I paraphrase the same thing and state it, I'm understood clearly enough---- even to the point of offending someone. I wonder why what I say means what I say, but supposedly is not the case with the bible???? :-D

 

[Vic C.]

One more premil for the books.

...and a historical one at that.

This from Jason's link:

2. Continuists. The Apocalyptic prophecies are predictive of progressive history, being partly fulfilled, partly unfulfilled. Thus, Mede, Brightman, Issac Newton, Woodhouse, Cunningham, Birks, Elliott (and many Germans).

Jason, remember when I said I was reading a lot from Newton and his contempories? Well, there they are. ;-)

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Tim, this is in reference to your last post... again from the link Jason provided:

I must remark that two modes of understanding of this verse [Revelation 20:4-6, 12] have been proposed, both of which I think are untenable. I have been reading carefully through Albert Barnes. He gives it, as his opinion, that the first resurrection here spoken of is a resurrection of principles, â€â€a resurrection of the patience, the undaunted courage, the holy boldness and constancy of the ancient martyrs. He says these great principles have been forgotten, and, as it were, buried; and that during the spiritual reign of Christ which is to come, these great principles will have a resurrection.

Now I appeal to you, would you, in reading that passage, think this to be the meaning? Would any man believe that to be its meaning, if he had not some thesis to defend? The fact is, we sometimes read Scripture, thinking of what it ought to say, rather that what it does say. I do not hesitate to affirm that any simple-minded person, who was intent upon discovering the mind of the Spirit, and not upon finding a method by which the words could be compelled to express his own mind, would say that the resurrection of principles, or the resurrection of doctrines, does not give the fair meaning of the words here stated. . .

It is â€â€we have no doubt whatever a literal resurrection of the saints of God, and not of principles nor of doctrines.

I also read where Spurgeon never hesitated to refer to the Hebrew and Greek for precise meanings of words and passages.

 

[preterist]

It's amazing how I can quote the plain scripture regarding something (for example, Acts 1:11) and then those who do not believe in a literal return come up with a reason why it does not mean what it says.

It is equally amazing how one can read Revelation 1:1,3 and see the words like "shortly come to pass" and "time is near" and not believe them in a literal way. Just amazing. But I guess these pesky time-statments are to be just "spiritualized" away.

 

[JM]

It is equally amazing how one can read Revelation 1:1,3 and see the words like "shortly come to pass" and "time is near" and not believe them in a literal way. Just amazing. But I guess these pesky time-statments are to be just "spiritualized" away.

From RevelationCommentary.org: Things which must shortly take place = is a Greek clause, literally=what (it) is necessary to happen in short (soon).

This Greek clause is often used by pretribulationists to support their argument of imminency, but is this really the case? En tachei is the debated phrase. The phrase can have two possible meanings: (1) that the events depicted will happen in rapid-fire fashion. That is, once the events begin to happen, they will occur very quickly; or (2) that the events depicted can happen soon. That is, the time of fulfillment will not extend beyond the normal, natural, customary sense of soon.

The basic question is this: Is John describing how the events will happen or when the events will happen?

Those arguing that John intends when the events will happen must overcome a logical and theological problem. Given that 1900 years have passed since John penned these words, soon would lose any historical impact or meaning. There is only one biblical sense in which soon could be used to represent 1900 years, and that’s viewing "time" from God’s so-called vantage point. However, nothing in the text indicates that this is the case. Logically then, this conclusion is weak at best.

Theologically, for John to state that the events depicted in the Revelation will happen soon, with reference to time, contradicts Matthew 24:36. Matthew 24:36 states, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." Therefore, John could not say how soon the Lord might return or how soon the events connected with His return might transpire unless God gave him direct revelation.

The only logical and theologically correct conclusion is to understand en tachei as indicating how the events will occur. The events connected with the Lord’s return will happen quickly. Matthew 24 indicates that they will happen in less than a three and a half-year period.

Alan K, anything else to add?

 

[Solo]

I believe that the seven seals is the chronological timeframe in which the end would be accomplished, and that Jesus outlines the occurances in Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

It is my thought that the first seal was opened when Constantine saw the sign in Heaven to go out and conquer beginning the papal reign over the world's religious system. Once it was opened it would be on the timeline until the end. I also believe that the second seal was opened at the time of communism taking peace from the earth. The further along we get into opening the seals the quicker the time of the end comes. As a cassette tape moves faster and faster as it gets closer to the end and then boom the tape stops, that is how I see the end times occurring.

 

[Vic C.]

As a cassette tape moves faster and faster as it gets closer to the end and then boom the tape stops, that is how I see the end times occurring.

:o

 

[JM]

I believe that the seven seals is the chronological timeframe in which the end would be accomplished, and that Jesus outlines the occurances in Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

It is my thought that the first seal was opened when Constantine saw the sign in Heaven to go out and conquer beginning the papal reign over the world's religious system. Once it was opened it would be on the timeline until the end. I also believe that the second seal was opened at the time of communism taking peace from the earth. The further along we get into opening the seals the quicker the time of the end comes. As a cassette tape moves faster and faster as it gets closer to the end and then boom the tape stops, that is how I see the end times occurring.

Like this?
(1) that the events depicted will happen in rapid-fire fashion. That is, once the events begin to happen, they will occur very quickly;

 

[Solo]

Like this?
(1) that the events depicted will happen in rapid-fire fashion. That is, once the events begin to happen, they will occur very quickly;

In the beginning events will be much slower as they have been since the first century throughout the 16 centuries or so, then the religious, industrial, economic times occurred at a much faster rate, and the closer we comes to the return of Jesus, the faster the events will occur including the tribulation time (will be shortened for the elects sake), then BOOM, as a thief in the night, Jesus will redeem those that are his.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

...then BOOM, ...

:o :-D
I realize that it is almost New Years Eve, but, just as I read this, someone set off some fireworks.

 

[Solo]

:o :-D
I realize that it is almost New Years Eve, but, just as I read this, someone set off some fireworks.

A subtle prophetic emphasis for one of those I love! :D

 

[Vic C.]

In the beginning events will be much slower as they have been since the first century throughout the 16 centuries or so, then the religious, industrial, economic times occurred at a much faster rate, and the closer we comes to the return of Jesus, the faster the events will occur including the tribulation time (will be shortened for the elects sake), then BOOM, as a thief in the night, Jesus will redeem those that are his.

Michael,

Since you have a view similar to that of Coop's, that being some of the seals are past; do you believe in a future 70th, week and if you do, which seal do you see as it's starting point? I guess what I am alluding to is, do you think it's possible that any furure events (seals, apostasy, antichrist, etc,) can happen outside of a 70th. week, as in happenning within an undetermined timeframe?

LOL, is that too much, did it makes sense? :robot:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Michael,

Since you have a view similar to that of Coop's, that being some of the seals are past; do you believe in a future 70th, week and if you do, which seal do you see as it's starting point? I guess what I am alluding to is, do you think it's possible that any furure events (seals, apostasy, antichrist, etc,) can happen outside of a 70th. week, as in happenning within an undetermined timeframe?

LOL, is that too much, did it makes sense? :robot:

Well, I am not Michael, but your question made sense to me.

Maybe not an undetermined timeframe, but perhaps a misunderstood time frame. That is one of the reasons that I started the thread on events of the past 100 years. I tend to believe that some of those things fit into the end time prophesies. Especially WWII and the Nazi Holocaust.

Some of the things that I have considered is that perhaps things that have often been thought to be equal to a year, or 3.5 years etc, might actually be some other unit of time.

For example: (Just an example)
A unit of time might be a presidential term. A decade. A century.

What if things that we have thought to be three and a half years turn out to refer to three and a half decades? :o :roll:

 

[Solo]

Michael,

Since you have a view similar to that of Coop's, that being some of the seals are past; do you believe in a future 70th, week and if you do, which seal do you see as it's starting point? I guess what I am alluding to is, do you think it's possible that any furure events (seals, apostasy, antichrist, etc,) can happen outside of a 70th. week, as in happenning within an undetermined timeframe?

LOL, is that too much, did it makes sense? :robot:

I believe that the time period that is described as the future 70th week is confused by many. I see the antiChrist making a seven year covenant after which he causes the sacrifices and oblations to cease in the middle of a seven years, and the desolation of abomination occurs where the antiChrist sets himself up as God in the Holy place. The tribulation then occurs afterwhich Jesus returns. This all happens after the sixth seal is opened. The 144,000 of the tribes of Israel will be sealed by God's seal before any of the earth is hurt, e.g. the trees, the water, etc.

I do not believe that the seven seals in Revelation fall within the 70th week. Nor do I believe that the apostasy and revelation of the antichrist fall only within the 70th week. I do believe that the time period that Daniel describes in chapter 9 is a future period where the antichrist makes a seven year covenant with many after which he reneges after 3 1/2 years, and sets himself up as God.


I believe that we are in the period just prior to the fourth seal being opened based on the writings of the "population control" folks.

 

[Zero Link]

I believe that the time period that is described as the future 70th week is confused by many. I see the antiChrist making a seven year covenant after which he causes the sacrifices and oblations to cease in the middle of a seven years, and the desolation of abomination occurs where the antiChrist sets himself up as God in the Holy place. The tribulation then occurs afterwhich Jesus returns. This all happens after the sixth seal is opened. The 144,000 of the tribes of Israel will be sealed by God's seal before any of the earth is hurt, e.g. the trees, the water, etc.

I do not believe that the seven seals in Revelation fall within the 70th week. Nor do I believe that the apostasy and revelation of the antichrist fall only within the 70th week. I do believe that the time period that Daniel describes in chapter 9 is a future period where the antichrist makes a seven year covenant with many after which he reneges after 3 1/2 years, and sets himself up as God.


I believe that we are in the period just prior to the fourth seal being opened based on the writings of the "population control" folks.

Who are the 144,000? That always confused me, does this mean only the tribes of Isreal will be sealed by God.. And will that protect them from the second 3 1/2 years of tribulation? Lol so basically, we are umm.. how do i put this.. stuck unprotected huh lol.