Reformed Restriction

[Alfred Persson]

The Covenant God made with Israel was after them coming out of Egypt at Mt Saini; and it was not termed a "new covenant," because it was the original covenant under the Law (13th-14th centuries).

Not to oppose your opinions personally, only Christians have Christian truth, not Jews nor the RCC. Only true Christians possess truth; all others mix truth with error.

So far, only Protestants proclaim the Gospel and its doctrines; but I agree with you that Protestants are a bit lacking in teaching the spiritual growth truths that are contained within the Pauline Epistles (Romans-Philemon). I believe this answers to why so many are discouraged and leave the Church.

The writer of Hebrews disagrees, he identifies Christ's covenant as replacing the old covenant, precisely as prophesied:

"But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Jer. 31:33 NKJ)

13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
(Heb. 9:13-15 NKJ)

"Only Christians have truth" has a problem, Christians disagree with each other proving some (or all) do not.

Its better to with those confessions that claim: "what is necessary to known for salvation is clear, perspicacious "truth known to all, Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, and no one goes to the Father without going through Him.

Everything else is debatable.

Catholics are Christians, the arguments cited against them being Christian contradict Scripture:

11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever (3956 pas) calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." (Rom. 10:11-13 NKJ)

(3956 pas) = all

Meaning: 1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Rom. 10:13 NIV)

A text Catholics (and Protestants) totally misunderstand, proves the point:

16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
(Matt. 16:16-18 NKJ)

When Peter confessed Jesus's Name, that He is the Christ the Son of God (God the Son), Jesus declares him blessed because God the Father revealed this saving truth to him. Like the prophet Jonah figuratively risen from the dead, then preaching the revelation of God to the unsaved, so was Peter.

This was well before Peter knew the doctrines of the faith, the only thing he knew was the Name of God the Son, and that on a "Spirit to human spirit" level he probably couldn't articulate if he tried.

Because Peter was now the Cephas (rock life giving revelation from God), Jesus says he has the keys to the kingdom. All who believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, have the key that opens the door into God's kingdom:

Jesus’ Janus Parallelism on PETROS in Matthew 16:18 | End Time News

In Matthew 16 18 Simon Peter's name in Greek is Petros. According to Oscar Cullmann, Dalman, Billerbeck[1] to name a few, in Jesus' day there was in Aramaic a Jewish proper name[2] meaning "firstborn" that when transliterated into Greek is spelled petros. . According to Markus Bockmuehl its...

endtimenews.net

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (Jn. 20:31 NKJ)

 

[netchaplain]

The writer of Hebrews disagrees, he identifies Christ's covenant as replacing the old covenant, precisely as prophesied:

"But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Jer. 31:33 NKJ)

When Scripture refers to Israel it means the Jews--God's people, not Christians where ethnicity is not considered (Rom 3:22; 10:12; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). Until this manner of interpretation is used there can be no understanding of Scripture in these issues.

There is nowhere in Scripture that supports Christians having a covenant with God. When Jesus said "this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mat 26:28), it in no way referred to a covenant with man, but with the Father.

The covenant that believers in Christ have is the "Everlasting Covenant" between the Father and the Son, which was made in eternity past, and its general theme is Hebrews 13:20: "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant." No mention of man's involvement here.

Of course one can believe what they choose concerning this issue as long as they believe in the Lord Jesus for the expiation of their sins; it is not an essential doctrine for salvation, but for spiritual growth in Christ.

Catholics are Christians, the arguments cited against them being Christian contradict Scripture:

If anyone claims that which is against the truths of Christianity they are anti-Christ. There are a multiplicity of doctrines that the RCC believe in, and the teaching that refutes Rom 3:23 the most is that Mary was born without the sin nature. Immaculate Conception; Marriam-Webster Dictionary: "the conception of the Virgin Mary in which as decreed in Roman Catholic dogma her soul was preserved free from original sin by divine grace." Highly anti-Christian!

Christians should always be ready in the teachings of "Apologetics." Teaching Scriptural truths glorifies God, and error dishonors Him!

​

 

[Alfred Persson]

When Scripture refers to Israel it means the Jews--God's people, not Christians where ethnicity is not considered (Rom 3:22; 10:12; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). Until this manner of interpretation is used there can be no understanding of Scripture in these issues.

There is nowhere in Scripture that supports Christians having a covenant with God. When Jesus said "this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mat 26:28), it in no way referred to a covenant with man, but with the Father.

The covenant that believers in Christ have is the "Everlasting Covenant" between the Father and the Son, which was made in eternity past, and its general theme is Hebrews 13:20: "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant." No mention of man's involvement here.

Of course one can believe what they choose concerning this issue as long as they believe in the Lord Jesus for the expiation of their sins; it is not an essential doctrine for salvation, but for spiritual growth in Christ.


If anyone claims that which is against the truths of Christianity they are anti-Christ. There are a multiplicity of doctrines that the RCC believe in, and the teaching that refutes Rom 3:23 the most is that Mary was born without the sin nature. Immaculate Conception; Marriam-Webster Dictionary: "the conception of the Virgin Mary in which as decreed in Roman Catholic dogma her soul was preserved free from original sin by divine grace." Highly anti-Christian!

Christians should always be ready in the teachings of "Apologetics." Teaching Scriptural truths glorifies God, and error dishonors Him!

​

"When Scripture refers to Israel it means the Jews--God's people, not Christians"

While there is a clear reference to ethnicity in the usage of "Jew" in the NT, its also clear there was a transition caused by the New Covenant in Christ's blood; The "Israel of God" contradicts Jews only are called "Israel":

6... For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. (Rom. 9:6-8 NKJ)

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16 NKJ)

Your "interpretive key" denies this clear transition in usage of "Israel":

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-- who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. (Eph. 2:11-16 NKJ)


4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph. 4:4-6 NKJ)

The only reason I discern for separating Jew and Gentile believers, is to teach "pre-trib" rapture, which I consider wrong also. The rapture is clearly revealed to occur after the appearance of the Antichrist in the "Church of God", just before the bowls of wrath are poured out:

NKJ 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4 NKJ)

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:14-16 NKJ)

"There is nowhere in Scripture that supports Christians having a covenant with God"
Christians celebrate the "last supper" because the cup is "the new covenant in my blood" (Lk 22:20), we are told to do it in remembrance of Christ (1 Cor. 11:25) which wouldn't happen if the new covenant had nothing to do with us.

Why would we become "ministers of the new covenant" (2 Cor. 3:6) if it had nothing to do with us?

Hebrews cites the New Covenant God would make with Israel (Heb. 8:6-13) and says this made Jesus the mediator of the new covenant with "those who are called" (Heb. 9:15), i.e., Christians.

Hyper dispensationalism is a foreign construct overlaid upon scripture that seems to fit, until the above scriptures are considered. The "exception" doesn't "prove the rule", it "disproves the rule."

Just as pieces left over after assembling a picture puzzle proves something was put together wrong, so are details that don't fit a "construct".

"If anyone claims that which is against the truths of Christianity they are anti-Christ"
THAT makes EVERYONE antichrist because we all err somewhere.

To illustrate the point: YOU identify the precise denomination that is 100% for every truth of Christianity. Which ONE of the tens of thousands of denominations, is not "antichrist" because it is never against ANY truth of Christianity?

Catholics are Orthodox Trinitarians, they confess Jesus is LORD.

Unlike some, I believe God will be very forgiving when His children failed to get something right, but still trusted in Jesus for their salvation:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
(Rom. 10:9-13 NKJ)

Catholics are not antichrists. I recall when I was in the Middle East, protestant Catholic differences didn't seem all that important when we both were crouched down in the foxhole, trying to avoid those who hate "the people of the book", Catholics, Protestants and Jews.

 

[netchaplain]

"When Scripture refers to Israel it means the Jews--God's people, not Christians"

While there is a clear reference to ethnicity in the usage of "Jew" in the NT, its also clear there was a transition caused by the New Covenant in Christ's blood; The "Israel of God" contradicts Jews only are called "Israel":

6... For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. (Rom. 9:6-8 NKJ)

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16 NKJ)

Your "interpretive key" denies this clear transition in usage of "Israel":

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-- who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. (Eph. 2:11-16 NKJ)


4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph. 4:4-6 NKJ)

The only reason I discern for separating Jew and Gentile believers, is to teach "pre-trib" rapture, which I consider wrong also. The rapture is clearly revealed to occur after the appearance of the Antichrist in the "Church of God", just before the bowls of wrath are poured out:

NKJ 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:1-4 NKJ)

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:14-16 NKJ)

"There is nowhere in Scripture that supports Christians having a covenant with God"
Christians celebrate the "last supper" because the cup is "the new covenant in my blood" (Lk 22:20), we are told to do it in remembrance of Christ (1 Cor. 11:25) which wouldn't happen if the new covenant had nothing to do with us.

Why would we become "ministers of the new covenant" (2 Cor. 3:6) if it had nothing to do with us?

Hebrews cites the New Covenant God would make with Israel (Heb. 8:6-13) and says this made Jesus the mediator of the new covenant with "those who are called" (Heb. 9:15), i.e., Christians.

Hyper dispensationalism is a foreign construct overlaid upon scripture that seems to fit, until the above scriptures are considered. The "exception" doesn't "prove the rule", it "disproves the rule."

Just as pieces left over after assembling a picture puzzle proves something was put together wrong, so are details that don't fit a "construct".

"If anyone claims that which is against the truths of Christianity they are anti-Christ"
THAT makes EVERYONE antichrist because we all err somewhere.

To illustrate the point: YOU identify the precise denomination that is 100% for every truth of Christianity. Which ONE of the tens of thousands of denominations, is not "antichrist" because it is never against ANY truth of Christianity?

Catholics are Orthodox Trinitarians, they confess Jesus is LORD.

Unlike some, I believe God will be very forgiving when His children failed to get something right, but still trusted in Jesus for their salvation:

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
(Rom. 10:9-13 NKJ)

Catholics are not antichrists. I recall when I was in the Middle East, protestant Catholic differences didn't seem all that important when we both were crouched down in the foxhole, trying to avoid those who hate "the people of the book", Catholics, Protestants and Jews.

It's ok if we differ in our understanding concerning certain teachings. Love you in Christ and God bless!

 

[Alfred Persson]

It's ok if we differ in our understanding concerning certain teachings. Love you in Christ and God bless!

Glad to hear neither of us are Antichrists, as one or both of us must be wrong about a truth of Christianity! Peace.