Charles H. Spurgeon's Views

[Solo]

All born again believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption according to Ephesians 1.

 

[Vic C.]

Who are the 144,000? That always confused me, does this mean only the tribes of Isreal will be sealed by God.. And will that protect them from the second 3 1/2 years of tribulation? Lol so basically, we are umm.. how do i put this.. stuck unprotected huh lol.

These are individuals chosen by God. I believe they will be sealed for protection during the GT and Wrath. Some say they are protected so they may evangelize, some say this number is symbolic. Revelation does tell us they are "the servants of our God". Revelation 7:3

I believe they are chosen and protected to both evangelize and to help gather and watch oven the Woman in Revelation 12. The reason I think this is:

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Obviously the "she" and "her" above is that Woman, but who is "they"? I'm probably wrong, but I believe "they" are part or all of the 144,000.

:smt102

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Here is something that has always troubled me concerning the "Thousand Year Reign".

This is from Strongs:

Lexicon Results for chilioi (Strong's 5507)

Outline of Biblical Usage ~ "a thousand"

However, the root word says ~ "plural of uncertain affinity"

Uuncertain? Is it certain that this is a reference to ONE thousand years?

:smt102

 

[Vic C.]

That would be the Amillennialist's defense. ;-)

See here:

http://jesus-messiah.com/smith/1000.html

Here is Thayer's definition:

http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=5507

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

From: http://jesus-messiah.com/smith/1000.html

....you have discovered an Amillennialist. They need not confess this heresy to wear the identity....

It is tough for me to read through a web site that immediately slings the word heresy at someone who asks a question.

 

[Solo]

Here is something that has always troubled me concerning the "Thousand Year Reign".

This is from Strongs:

Lexicon Results for chilioi (Strong's 5507)

Outline of Biblical Usage ~ "a thousand"

However, the root word says ~ "plural of uncertain affinity"

Uuncertain? Is it certain that this is a reference to ONE thousand years?

:smt102

Gabby,
It is interesting that your post reflects the exact argument revealed in the website that Vic offered. Do you hold to the beliefs of Amillenialism? If so, where did you get your points of "uncertain affinity", and the Greek word chilioi teaching from?
Thanks.

Note: You can sniff out an Amillenialist by questioning about the literal meaning of the number 1,000 in Revelation chapter 20. When they deny it is literal and use the claim it is an unknown plurality of years and then quote the Greek; you have discovered an Amillennialist. They need not confess this heresy to wear the identity. No eschatological group denies the millennial to follow the future tribulation other then an Amillennialist. When anyone claims they are unsure of the millennial but then they teach the amillennial stance on the number 1,000, they have only one reason for doing so, THEY ARE AMILLENNIAL.

Stating the problem: Amillennialist claim that the word "thousand" in Revelation chapter 20 comes from the Greek "chiloi" and the interpretation given by Greek amillennial scholars is that it is a "plural of uncertain affinity." This gives them the authority to claim that "thousand" in the text is not exactly 1,000 but can mean a long period of time (Blume's interpretation). This gives them the authority they think to spiritualize 1,000 into what ever length of time that fits their scheme of eschatology. What is the solution? Is there a solution that does not flow through the mind and pen of an amillennialist? Yes! Here is the solution as it flows through the mind and pen of Pastor Reckart, president of Apostolic Theological Bible College.

Retrieved from http://jesus-messiah.com/smith/1000.html

It is tough for me to read through a web site that immediately slings the word heresy at someone who asks a question.

I might suggest that you overlook the stumbling block that would keep you from reading about why this gentleman has determined that Amellenialism is a heresy. It may be information that you have not been aware of, and he may even answer your questions.

 

[Vic C.]

I might suggest that you overlook the stumbling block that would keep you from reading about why this gentleman has determined that Amellenialism is a heresy. It may be information that you have not been aware of, and he may even answer your questions.

That din't go unoticed by me either, but I did as you suggested Michael; I read right past it, in the hopes that information useful to this argument could be gotten. As for any one End Times position being heresy, who's to say? End Times is not as easy as it looks or sounds.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Gabby,
It is interesting that your post reflects the exact argument revealed in the website that Vic offered. Do you hold to the beliefs of Amillenialism?

No. I don't hold the beliefs of Amillenialism.
The end times is a subject that fascinates me, however I have not spent a lot of time in the study of it, as far as trying to establish any sort of time-line of events to "hold" to. I do read passages that appear to me to be things that are current events or recent history, or reading of beliefs of others will get my interest.

The thought that occurs to me is that the church ought to be reigning with Christ now.

If so, where did you get your points of "uncertain affinity", and the Greek word chilioi teaching from?

This is from Strongs:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/ ... 5507&page=

 

[Solo]

The thought that occurs to me is that the church ought to be reigning with Christ now.

After the seventh angel sounds the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our Lord and He will reign forever and ever. Those who have a part in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus Christ for 1000 years. After the New Jerusalem descends from heaven into the new heavens and earth, those servants of God in New Jerusalem will reign forever.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.