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Christian Identity: The Ultimate End-Times Heresy?

disruptor

Member
Christian Identity: The Ultimate End-Times Heresy?

Christian Identity holds that God's Chosen People are today's Euro-American peoples. The Old Testament Hebrews are the ancestors of today's Euro-Americans, according to this view.

http://www.angloisrael.com/

The Israelis of today, descended in large part from Turkish stock, have no bloodline to Old Testament Hebrews. Yet the appellation "chosen" is frequently self-applied by Israelis, and the Israeli claim to the Holy Land is based on this historically inaccurate identity.

http://www.khazaria.com
http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

So how comes the Christian Identity claim to chosenness is a "racist heresy", while the Israeli claim is considered "legitimate"?

I believe God would choose Christians as his chosen people.

The Bible makes no sense otherwise:

Matt 10:6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matt 15:24: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rev 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
 
disruptor said:
Christian Identity: The Ultimate End-Times Heresy?

Christian Identity holds that God's Chosen People are today's Euro-American peoples. The Old Testament Hebrews are the ancestors of today's Euro-Americans, according to this view.

http://www.angloisrael.com/

The Israelis of today, descended in large part from Turkish stock, have no bloodline to Old Testament Hebrews. Yet the appellation "chosen" is frequently self-applied by Israelis, and the Israeli claim to the Holy Land is based on this historically inaccurate identity.

http://www.khazaria.com
http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

So how comes the Christian Identity claim to chosenness is a "racist heresy", while the Israeli claim is considered "legitimate"?

I believe God would choose Christians as his chosen people.

The Bible makes no sense otherwise:

Matt 10:6: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matt 15:24: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rev 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

I do not believe in the Christian Identity movement, but as with anything, certain truth gets twisted out of proportion.

It is quite clear, to me anyway, that Israel in their lost state takes on the future characteristics of Christians according to prophecy whereas the Jews retain the law. To this end is why there were doctrines of replacement theology where Abraham's heirs were the spiritual seed.

This is somewhat correct. My theology embraces everything orthodox, except my primary difference in belief relative to the rest of the church is that unbeknownst to the Christian nations of today, they are not only the spiritual seed of Abraham, but they're physical seed as well just as surely as Jews, those of the Muslim faith, etc.

This in no way embraces racial superiority, and as a matter of fact, the seed of Abraham was described as a mixture of people embraced in the people of Northwest European descent. So yes, there are lost tribes of Israel, and yes, these tribes grouped and became the New Covenant nations of today (hence, grace/law just as the bible teaches)
 
Thanks for the reply, Tim.

While I agree to a large extent, I must add that, at the moment in the Holy Land, all I see is one particular religious/racial group erecting massive barriers in order to keep everyone else out. They certainly don't recognize the basic truths about universal love and charity that you and I do.

After World War II, Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was 80% Christian and Nazareth 60%. Now those percentages are 20% and 30% respectively, and are shrinking. Jerusalem Christians were a plurality in the 1920s; today, they number under 2 percent of the city's population. How can this be anything other than the work of Satan, handing the Holy Land over to non-Christians? Seems to me that the only Christians doing or saying anything about this scandal are Identity plus some Baptists.

What's going on in Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan isn't happening in my name or in the name of any other Christians I know, whether Identity or otherwise. Between 38 to 43 thousand civilian dead in Iraq alone? Enough already!...

http://mparent7777.livejournal.com/7155042.html
http://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

And I still haven't received a response from anyone concerning the crystal-clear warning at Rev 2:9, despite asking 3 times in different places on this forum. Or is this Biblical warning too "embarrassing" to discuss?
 
disruptor said:
While I agree to a large extent, I must add that, at the moment in the Holy Land, all I see is one particular religious/racial group erecting massive barriers in order to keep everyone else out. They certainly don't recognize the basic truths about universal love and charity that you and I do.

Hello Mr Disruptor
Ya got kids? Do you love them? If they were the target of attack, would you try and build a massive barrier around them to protect them because you love them? If not, WHY? Charity? Where does that come in? So explain to me your basic truth about charity.
 
Hello Disruptor

Rev. 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Are you thinking that all Jews are from the synagogue of satan?
 
Charity in this case means NOT bombing and murdering Arabs, Afghans, Palestinians etc just because DC/Tel Aviv have decided that Muslims are AMALEK.

There are plenty of Jews who oppose the current Zionist policies of the dual US/Israeli state:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Today’s wicked Zionists are just like their predecessors, who were responsible for causing terrible suffering in Palestine with their wars with the Arabs, may G-d have mercy. At that time in 1929, the Zionists had a slogan arguing that the Western Wall in Jerusalem was a Jewish “national symbol.†Of course, the Arabs disagreed with this idea, considering that they had control of the location for over 1,100 years. However, the Zionist mobs were yelling that “The Wall is ours!†It’s hard to understand why they felt that way considering they have no connection to the Jewish holy places whatsoever. Rabbi Baruch Kaplan.
 
Yeah
I really didnt expect you to answer my question. Im not allowed to speak freely here, so i wont. Go on with your killing.

PS- Ya know i could..... Nevermind, from what i read things will be taken care of by the I AM!
 
PSALM 94 [11] The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; [13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. [14] For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. [15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. [16] WHO WILL RISE UP FOR ME AGAINST THE EVILDOERS? OR WHO WILL STAND UP FOR ME AGAINST THE WORKERS OF INIQUITY?

Isaiah 6 [8] Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. [9] And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. [10] Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Sound familiar?
 
Well.... i read what i posted 3 times. I see the truth, and yet i see nothing offensive ( that aint true) to anyone on the board. Will i be deleted again? Shall i shake the dust from my feet? Will their desicion be made here or will it be made because of another thread about GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS?
 
Israel, the Jews and the Church

Hi friends,

What does the Word of God reveal to us about Israel, the Jews and the Church of Jesus Christ?

First of all, Israel is the name, God gave to the progenitor of the twelve tribes, Jacob [Gen.32:28]. Although his son, Joseph fathered two of them, Ephraim and Manasseh, Jacob claimed them as his own. Gen.48:5.

One of the twelve tribes known as Judah, from whose lineage Jesus is traced, is also considered the tribe from which the Jews originated. However, such a concept is in error as Judah had thirteen other brothers who must be just as Jewish as he. Therefore, we will recognize in this discussion, Israel to be Jewish as a whole.

The second point is, since Jesus recognized and directed His ministry, to all twelve tribes of Israel in His first advent, it is understood there were no 'ten lost tribes of Israel' at that time. Mt.15:24 and all the refugees from the ten tribes of Israel, 2 Chr.11:16, who moved to Judah [A remnant].

Third, and as seen above, Jesus ministry was to Israel, not to the Gentiles, Mt.15:24. However, it is equally clear, His ministry was fully dual purposed, as those whom He selected as disciples and everyone who heard His ministry and believed in Him became the foundation and beginning of His Church. Alll of whom were Iraelites [Jewish].

Fourth, Jesus revealed to us in Jn.10:14-16 the following: "I am the good Shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me - just as the Father knows me and I know the Father - and I lay down my life for my sheep. I have other sheep [His Church, consisting of all who believe in Him] that are not of this sheep pen [Israel, the Jews, who are the major focus of His ministry. Mt.10:5 and 15:24]. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and [He prophecies] there will be one flock and one Shepherd." [Parenthetics mine].

What did Jesus mean by that? He is ministering to His FIRST ELECT, Israel [Isa.42:1; 45:4; 65:9, 22; and Mt.24:22, 24], and referring to His SECOND ELECT, His Church, consisting of all who believe in Him, of all nations, peoples and languages [Rom.8:32-33; Col.3:12; 1 Thes.1:3-4; 1 Pet.1:2, 2:6 and 2 Pet.1:9-1 .

Fifth, as it can be seen, Jesus has the two sheep folds He referred to in Jn.10:16. He prophecied they were going to be ONE FOLD. Unfortunately, that prophecy was to take a very long time before it could be fulfilled. The reason for that, was that Israel [The Jews] rejected Jesus as their own Messiah and had Him put to death, nearly 2,000 years ago. But all those who believed in Him - founded His Church and the division of unbelieving Israel and the Church began immediately at that time.

Sixth, so now there is a big division between Israel [Elect #1] and all those who believe in Jesus Christ, His Church [Elect#2]. So when and how are they going to become one sheep fold with only one Shepherd, and but one ELECT?

Jesus said, "But many that are first [Israel] shall be last, and the last [The Church] shall be first." Mt.19:30. As briefly as possible, God reveals through the prophet Daniel, in 9:24-27, His decree upon the final history of Israel as a nation, in which the final seven years, or the 70th and last 'week' of the prophecy, records the entry of the antichrist on the scene, who triggers the tribulation that Israel is destined to go through. Also called 'Jacob's Trouble,' in Jer.30:7.

Meanwhile, Jesus revealed to us where all who belong to Him [The Church] are going in His prophecy of Jn.14:1-4 and 28. "Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there may you be also. And where I go, you know, and the way you know." Jn.14:1-4.

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me you would be glad THAT I AM GOING TO THE FATHER [In heaven]. For the Father is greater than I." Jn.14:28.

In 1 Thes.4:14-18, the apostle Paul confirms and reinforces Jesus promise that He is returning for all who believe in Him, and is going to take us all with Him to be with the Father in heaven. He said, "According to the Lord's own word..." [Vs 15 NIV], "...we will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." [Vs 17 NIV].

Then the apostle Paul reveals precisely when Jesus will be returning for all of us who belong to Him, His Church. He said, the departure must come first, i.e., we must be caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds of the air - and taken out of the way - before the antichrist is revealed and the seven years of tribulation begin. 2 Thes.2:3-8, which is the exact same timing as in Daniel's prophecy in 9:27, and what Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15.

Seventh, we have seen that unbelieving Israel must go through the tribulation, while all of us who belong to Jesus, His Church, are caught up in the clouds to meet Him in the air, before the antichrist is revealed and the seven year tribulation begins. None of which has yet happened yet.

As Paul wrote in 1 Thes.1:10, and Jesus in Rev.3:10, all of us who belong to Jesus are assured of not going through the tribulation. And as Jesus revealed in Rev.4:1-2, the apostle John is called up into heaven by the voice that sounds like a trumpet - to symbolically represent the Church being called into heaven before the tribulation begins, and that it will be in heaven - until it is nearly over. The Bride [The Church] and the Lamb [Jesus] are prepared for the wedding in heaven, in
Rev.19:7-8.

Eighth, is the time Jesus returns in His Second Coming to the earth, with all of us who believe in Him [The saints/Church, His 2nd Elect], riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean - in His armies from heaven. Rev.19:14, Zech.14:4-5 and Jude 14-15.

Jesus 1st Elect, Israel, finally recognize their Messiah and will then become believers in who and what He said He is. Zec.12:10. A great deal of mourning goes on as Jesus stated there would be in Mt.24:30. Zech.12:11-13.

Jesus comes to save Israel [His 1st Elect] from being destroyed, and ends the battle of Armageddon, defeating the antichrist, the false prophet and their armies out of the ten nation confederation. The antichrist and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire. Rev.19:20.

Ninth, and before Jesus can bring undivided peace and serenity to the remnant of the earth population, Satan is caught, thrown into the Abyss and sealed in for 1,000 years. Rev.20:1-3.

The first resurrection takes place of all those who will be saved during the tribulation. They have all paid with their lives in order to make their decision for Jesus Christ and to live with Him forever. Rev.20:4-6. [Please note: The Church is not among this group at all].

Tenth, and the very time that Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will finally be fulfilled. The 1st Elect, Israel finally recognized their own Messiah and are believers in Him. And as the apostle Paul wrote in Rom.11:26, "And so all Israel will be saved." This is the remnant of all Israel who will be saved.

All the martyrs who come out of the tribulation, who are to be saved, join with Israel - and both of them join with Jesus 2nd Elect, the Church - AND THE TWO SHEEP FOLDS BECOME ONE, WITH ONE SHEPHERD, AND ALSO BUT ONE ELECT.

"They shall be called priests of God and of Christ and rule with Him for 1,000 years." Rev.20:6.

In His love.

Quasar
 
I Reckon Sow said:
Im not allowed to speak freely here, so i wont. Go on with your killing.
By all means, speak freely. You're doing fine. Just don't do it in an insulting way or by directly insulting another member. We are trying to minimize the direct conflicts publically. That's all. This is the one Forum on the whole site I enjoy the most. I just don't want to taint it with personal attacks on others.

This goes for all (and me).

Vic
 
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