Christian Liars won't inherit the Kingdom either

[D4Christ]

Are Chrisitians delusional? Do we really think that by claiming Christ we are somehow immune to God's punishments for disobedience? We know from scriptures for certain at least 2 things relevant to this post.

1. Not everyone who calls Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven.
2. We will know each other by our fruits, ie by the way we act.

I often wonder if the way I act and talk about God is sincere....I mean really sincere. If you have been a Chrisitan long enough you know how to go thru the motions...how to pray...what to say...and how to appear holy to others. But in those dark spaces that only God can shed light, am I really being true in my heart to the lip service I give others. Is God fooled by the hype? Is there really love in my heart for others or am I "deceitful" personified in Christianity? Will the Father say "well done my faithful servant" or "get away from me I never knew you!"

Q. What do you call someone who sees themselves as a successful good person, when most people would disagree?

A. Charlie Sheen

Most would agree that Charlie lies to himself...about who he is,what he is capable of and how others perceive him. But I will suggest that many in the "church" lie to themselves everyday. I know for many lying is not at the top of their agenda....Obama, politics, abortion, murder, theft...these are topics Christians discuss as the ones that could separate you from Christ. But liars won't inherit the kingdom of heaven either and frankly it's easier to do than some other sins. Shouldn't we pay attention to that.

It seems to me that how we act, our fruit, our tones, our words, and some of the discussions on this forum, sound like the world. I know its called "Christian Forums" but many posts could be copied on "any" forum and no one would blink. Many say they are Chrisitans but their posts say they are a part of the world. Is it possible, as a Christian to see yourself as "holy" and God to see you as a worker of inquity.

Perhaps this is just my challenge....to examine all aspects of me to see if I measure up to the standards set forth in scriptures. Interestly enough, God built us with internal radar to detect sin. I know when I am being nasty, or mean, vindictive, sarcastic, judgemental, slanderous, and just downright rude.

So this is my point. If God built us to know right from wrong and we engage in this behaviour, but proclaim openly to others (perhaps in a post) "that is not what I'm are doing, I'm just expressing my opinion", does that make you a liar?...knowing something is wrong but trying to convince yourself and others that it is right? Personally I don't want to lie to myself anymore. I want to deal with it before God deals with me.

Just my thoughts,
Dee

 

[tim-from-pa]

Well Dee, I'm willing to put myself up to your challenge. Look at the last 25 or 50 or so posts I made and see if anything I said makes me fit into the category you are talking about. I noticed two main types of posts that I make:

1) Usually something "off the wall" which is obviously nonsense for the comedic effect. In real life I have a smiling demeanor and most people find me pleasant to be around. I'm a jokester. OR

2) My beliefs and observations about life or the bible. When I'm talking about say, gardening or health, I have no reason to lie---- it's just a conversation. When it's the latter, I usually find myself on the defensive when my theology is challenged. I won't take that sitting down, but unless a person is an obvious (fill in the blank) I am still polite to them. Usually such a person ends up on my ignore list when I sense they have nothing worthwhile to say other than to taunt (and looking up their history shows the same disrespect to others). As of now, I only have 2 people on that list so I guess I'm reasonably patient.

I don't think most people here lie. Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't think that they do. I have no reason to suspect that. Make sure that some of these you suspect are not merely trolls.

 

[D4Christ]

Hi Tim,

This is not about me pointing fingers at any specific people. And this is not about lying in the convential sense. There are many ways to lie. Scriptures state hiding hatred is lying; hating your Christian brother/sister is lying, listening to slander makes you a liar. This is about the nastiness and frankly unchristian like posts on this forum and the fact that many who engage in this behavior think it is nothing wrong with it. As if Christ himself were to pop up on the fourm and give them a thumbs up for their performance.

It's about lying to ourselves about how we see ourselves. It's about coming off like a saint to others when, when the demons are rolling on the floor at some of nasty come-backs in some posts.

Like I said, I'm not taking names. But sometimes when I am reading a thread I give up because the bickering and name-calling is a turn off. So, if one lies (since we know right from wrong) and convinces themselves that their behavior is right, does that make them a liar? I would think yes...but that's just my opinon. And of course this does not apply to everyone. But lying to oneself could affect many areas of one's life.

Dee

 

[tim-from-pa]

Well, people are going to be human. It's normal, for instance, to get passionate if they feel they are following the Lord and don't want anyone else to think that they are twisting things. This is as opposed to somebody (possibly a troll) who is doing it just to be a jerk.

I have a little secret. A lot of the things I now defend which may even sound unorthodox are the very things I once did not believe, and one time sided with my debater. I used to put up the same "fight". :yes But, I've been there and done that as they always say, and would not have abandoned it if I did not find folly in it. Many people are not there yet, and may have secret fears of being punished by God if they don't follow their church's teachings or whatever, and do not have the fortitude quite yet to come out. So, in that respect, I can see what you mean. They debate furiously maybe to convince themselves and maybe even God ... "See? I believe. I'll fight for it".

For example, one of my threads is about the nature of hell (is it annihilationism or eternal torment?). I can't help but to think that those who defend what I believe is an unscriptural doctrine is fear that if they do not defend it that they may end up there. I wish that people could be delivered from that fear so that they don't merely come to Jesus Christ for fire insurance in fear, but rather out of faith which is the only way to be saved.

 

[Riverwolf]

I wish that people could be delivered from that fear so that they don't merely come to Jesus Christ for fire insurance

Very well put.
To me it's like a multi-vitamin. People are searching for the minimum daily requirement.

 

[D4Christ]

Well, people are going to be human. It's normal, for instance, to get passionate if they feel they are following the Lord and don't want anyone else to think that they are twisting things.

That's an interesting take. Of course we are humans, born wtih a sin nature, with hearts that are "exceedingly wicked." That is why we must die daily to our fleshly desires. But make no mistake, this thread isn't about passisonate debates - I've had a few in my day.

This thread is about Christians - human nature and all - not controling their tongues and given in to idle words.

This is about expressing hatred and slanderous speech that is not edifying to the body of Christ.

And ultimately this is about trying to hide that behaviour behind Chrisitianity.

This is about lying to oneself about one's own behaviour.

This is about the fact that there are no little "white" lies with God and His promise that liars will not inherit the kingdom.

This is about self reflection for real.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[Sam21]

That's an interesting take. Of course we are humans, born wtih a sin nature, with hearts that are "exceedingly wicked." That is why we must die daily to our fleshly desires. But make no mistake, this thread isn't about passisonate debates - I've had a few in my day.

This thread is about Christians - human nature and all - not controling their tongues and given in to idle words.

This is about expressing hatred and slanderous speech that is not edifying to the body of Christ.

And ultimately this is about trying to hide that behaviour behind Chrisitianity.

This is about lying to oneself about one's own behaviour.

This is about the fact that there are no little "white" lies with God and His promise that liars will not inherit the kingdom.

This is about self reflection for real.

Blessings,
Dee

I think Christians get frustrated and let their feelings take over sometimes. When I read someone confidently asserting that Jesus came from the moon and he can prove it from the bible and we are all crazies that disagree,yes I can get frustrated enought to want to just call the guy a crazy nut, of course the Lord does not want me to act that way,so we do need to discipline ourselves.

 

[ronniechoate34]

There are no Christian liars.


Also there are no liars that will escape hell fire, except for those who are washed in the blood of Jesus Christ. Because let's face it, none of us is without sin. If we say that we are, then that's a sin.


None of us are saved till we get there but we can be sure that Jesus is faithful to wash us clean, and forgive our sins.

 

[D4Christ]

There are no Christian liars.

I repsectfully disagree. Q. Who are Christians? A. Those who profess Christ.

So would you suggest that people, who believe in Christ and His teachings could not turn away from those teachings?

1 Tim 4: <SUP>1</SUP> Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. <SUP id=en-NLT-29709 class=versenum>2</SUP> These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.

or <SUP class=footnote value='[a]'></SUP>

Rev 3: <SUP>3</SUP> Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.
<SUP id=en-NLT-30711 class=versenum>4</SUP> “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil....

All I am suggesting is that as Christians and members of the Church we do have the ability to mess up and behave in ways not pleasing to God, which could result in our destruction if we refuse to repent. In Rev 2,3 the message from the Father, given to Christ, who sent the message thru an angel to John, is a message to the Church -not unbelievers. Within some some of the messages is a warning to repent and turn away from those things that do not please God....or else face the judgement of God.

Because let's face it, none of us is without sin. If we say that we are, then that's a sin.... None of us are saved till we get there but we can be sure that Jesus is faithful to wash us clean, and forgive our sins.

And that is my point. If we don't acknowledge our sin, that is a sin...the sin of lying. There can be no forgiveness of sins without confession and repentance.

So, if Christians engage in hate, slander, gossip and they don't admit that this is what they are doing or are completely unrepentant and refuse to acknowledge that their behavior is sinful then they become liars.

You cannot benefit from the cross if you do not acknowledge your sins and ask for God's forgiveness.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[taromina2003]

Are Chrisitians delusional? Do we really think that by claiming Christ we are somehow immune to God's punishments for disobedience? We know from scriptures for certain at least 2 things relevant to this post.

1. Not everyone who calls Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven.
2. We will know each other by our fruits, ie by the way we act.

I often wonder if the way I act and talk about God is sincere....I mean really sincere. If you have been a Chrisitan long enough you know how to go thru the motions...how to pray...what to say...and how to appear holy to others. But in those dark spaces that only God can shed light, am I really being true in my heart to the lip service I give others. Is God fooled by the hype? Is there really love in my heart for others or am I "deceitful" personified in Christianity? Will the Father say "well done my faithful servant" or "get away from me I never knew you!"


Most would agree that Charlie lies to himself...about who he is,what he is capable of and how others perceive him. But I will suggest that many in the "church" lie to themselves everyday. I know for many lying is not at the top of their agenda....Obama, politics, abortion, murder, theft...these are topics Christians discuss as the ones that could separate you from Christ. But liars won't inherit the kingdom of heaven either and frankly it's easier to do than some other sins. Shouldn't we pay attention to that.

It seems to me that how we act, our fruit, our tones, our words, and some of the discussions on this forum, sound like the world. I know its called "Christian Forums" but many posts could be copied on "any" forum and no one would blink. Many say they are Chrisitans but their posts say they are a part of the world. Is it possible, as a Christian to see yourself as "holy" and God to see you as a worker of inquity.

Perhaps this is just my challenge....to examine all aspects of me to see if I measure up to the standards set forth in scriptures. Interestly enough, God built us with internal radar to detect sin. I know when I am being nasty, or mean, vindictive, sarcastic, judgemental, slanderous, and just downright rude.

So this is my point. If God built us to know right from wrong and we engage in this behaviour, but proclaim openly to others (perhaps in a post) "that is not what I'm are doing, I'm just expressing my opinion", does that make you a liar?...knowing something is wrong but trying to convince yourself and others that it is right? Personally I don't want to lie to myself anymore. I want to deal with it before God deals with me.

Just my thoughts,
Dee

I believe there are a large number of "Christians" who attemd these huge weekly services all over the country that are like stadiums and get "feel good" messages from televangelists that preach about prosperity instead of preaching the word of GOD, alot of Christians attend church weekly not so much for the LORD but for social reasons. I am assuming none of them crack their Bilbles other than when in church and even then they may get a scripture or two from the preacher.

I think alot of what you are saying pertains to Christians who do not have the fear of the LORD iin them. They simply are going thru the motions, legalists, as Americans we are spoiled rotton compared to most countries but we still whine about how rough life is and we are very self sufficient we rely on our own to get by and very rarely call on the LORD because life is pretty easy when you think about it for the average American.

Alot of American Christians don't really want to get down to the nitty gritty of Christianity and they are being told that certain behaviors are not sinful even though the Bible clearly states it is. Christianity is being used by certain politicians to get votes.

In my opinion certain American high profile Christian leaders have given Christianity a bad name and it needs cleaned up something awful. It is really sad.

 

[D4Christ]

I believe there are a large number of "Christians" who attemd these huge weekly services all over the country that are like stadiums and get "feel good" messages from televangelists that preach about prosperity instead of preaching the word of GOD, alot of Christians attend church weekly not so much for the LORD but for social reasons. I am assuming none of them crack their Bilbles other than when in church and even then they may get a scripture or two from the preacher.

I think alot of what you are saying pertains to Christians who do not have the fear of the LORD iin them. They simply are going thru the motions, legalists, as Americans we are spoiled rotton compared to most countries but we still whine about how rough life is and we are very self sufficient we rely on our own to get by and very rarely call on the LORD because life is pretty easy when you think about it for the average American.

Alot of American Christians don't really want to get down to the nitty gritty of Christianity and they are being told that certain behaviors are not sinful even though the Bible clearly states it is. Christianity is being used by certain politicians to get votes.

In my opinion certain American high profile Christian leaders have given Christianity a bad name and it needs cleaned up something awful. It is really sad.

I couldn't agree more. :yes The word that comes to mind is arrogance, maybe a little self righteousness in the belief that we can say what we want, anyway we want because, we are of course, right.

Blessings,

Dee

 

[tim-from-pa]

I think Christians get frustrated and let their feelings take over sometimes. When I read someone confidently asserting that Jesus came from the moon and he can prove it from the bible and we are all crazies that disagree,yes I can get frustrated enought to want to just call the guy a crazy nut, of course the Lord does not want me to act that way,so we do need to discipline ourselves.

On the line of what you said, I thought I'd take another humorous side road and give you this line what I said the other day:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/new-age-version-rapture-35816/index2.html#post538211

And DEE: that's an example of one of my "off the wall" posts I mentioned earlier.

 

[taromina2003]

I couldn't agree more. :yes The word that comes to mind is arrogance, maybe a little self righteousness in the belief that we can say what we want, anyway we want because, we are of course, right.

Blessings,

Dee

Hi Dee, Dee is my middle name:waving Yes good ole American false PRIDE!! LORD knows we Americans are filled with it, I find myself prideful all the darn time and I have to ask for forgiveness and the LORDS help to recognize it in myself and correct it, it's an on going process.

 

[taromina2003]

Very well put.
To me it's like a multi-vitamin. People are searching for the minimum daily requirement.

well said.

 

[D4Christ]

On the line of what you said, I thought I'd take another humorous side road and give you this line what I said the other day:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/new-age-version-rapture-35816/index2.html#post538211

And DEE: that's an example of one of my "off the wall" posts I mentioned earlier.

Hey Tim, I do have a sense of humor and perhaps just a little more sarcasm than necessary. I've gotten off a few good zingers in my time. Somtimes I get spanked by the mods for it too. But unlike some on this board, I will apologize if someone perceives what I have said to be mean and unecessary.

 

[handy]

Interesting thread, Dee.

I'm not going to say that "Christian" liars won't inherit the Kingdom exactly, because to be Christian is to be forgiven.

But, I think we can all agree that lying is sin and Christians need to gain victory over that sin.

Not to change the subject of the thread, but to look at lying in another light, I'll bring up something that is bothering me a lot when I come to this site lately.....

I don't believe that there are any at this site who deliberately lie. I think most here, when they post something, (unless as a joke) sincerely believe it to be true.

But, what's bothering me is how many Christians willingly believe lies, because the lies say what they want to believe. We have people on this site who promote things like C.S. Lewis being a heretic, even when it is shown that he wasn't, or Obama not providing a birth certificate during his campaign, even though he clearly did, or Presidents and other VIP's participating in demon worship, even though if they watch the very videos provided as "proof" they would see it's simply a play being enacted.

I don't think that willfully believing lies is any different than telling lies. It's participating in gossip at best, and bearing false witness when repeated. But, somehow people think that if they see something on a YouTube video, no matter how spurious or downright crazy the claim, it's OK to repeat and assert it's truth, when just a little checking out shows it it be lies.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I don't think most people here lie.

I have disagreed with several posters here, while they might "lie" to themselves, I have never believed anyone lied to me. Perhaps I am not paying attention, but I don't see where anyone has lied in any exchange with me.

As to Christians who lie - the world is full of them. The lady who sold me my house (that is, the former owner) went out of her way to hide problems. She KNEW of a particular problem (the septic was defective), but hid that fact and refused to stand behind it after the sale.

She lied.

Both real estate agents (yes, "Christians") were a part of this, the one probably lied, the other was at least on the edge of doing so.

Oddly, all three Christians involved were women.

But I won't go so far as to say they won't inherit the Kingdom - God's grace and forgiveness seems to be unlimited.

On a related note, I tell employers (BEFORE I take the job):

"Don't ever ask me to lie for you. First of all, I won't. Second, you don't REALLY want me to, because if I'll lie for you, I'll lie to you. And in that last case, you won't know what I am doing."

I have had almost all positive responses to this statement. But once in a while, I am forced to remind the boss what I'd said years before. :yes

 

[rzr]

Hi Tim,

This is not about me pointing fingers at any specific people. And this is not about lying in the convential sense. There are many ways to lie. Scriptures state hiding hatred is lying; hating your Christian brother/sister is lying, listening to slander makes you a liar. This is about the nastiness and frankly unchristian like posts on this forum and the fact that many who engage in this behavior think it is nothing wrong with it. As if Christ himself were to pop up on the fourm and give them a thumbs up for their performance.

It's about lying to ourselves about how we see ourselves. It's about coming off like a saint to others when, when the demons are rolling on the floor at some of nasty come-backs in some posts.

Like I said, I'm not taking names. But sometimes when I am reading a thread I give up because the bickering and name-calling is a turn off. So, if one lies (since we know right from wrong) and convinces themselves that their behavior is right, does that make them a liar? I would think yes...but that's just my opinon. And of course this does not apply to everyone. But lying to oneself could affect many areas of one's life.

Dee

I think we all lie to ourselves. and I have struggled with the same thing that that Dee originally was saying about being sincere to the Lord...My entire adult life I have had to de program myself from my southern baptist upbringing because of this question of sincerity. As I became college educated, I had to re evaluate my faith on how I came to it. Because when my day comes to stand before Him, I want to be able to tell Him from my own heart.

When people accept the Lord because out of fear, well then I think they are lying to themselves.
When people accept the Lord because of the promise to inherit the Kingdom, well then I think they are lying to themselves.
When people say they are saved and think that Satan can't harm them, well then I think they are lying to themselves..