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[_ Old Earth _] Christianity and Dinosuars

True

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How does Christianity explain dinosaurs?

Did they really exist and if so why did God wipe them out? Or are they just planted by the devil to make humans believe that God does not exist? How can so much information be collected and presumed on reptiles we have never seen before? Did man actually inhabit the earth with these creatures?

There is reference to something in the bible about them in Job 40:15-24 :

It “eats grass like an ox.â€Â
It “moves his tail like a cedar.†(In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.â€Â)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron.â€Â
“He is the first of the ways of God.â€Â
“He lies under the lotus trees, in a covert of reeds and marsh.â€Â

Is this a dinosaur or an elephant or hippo?

There are other references like this in Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. :study

This subject has been puzzling me for some time. :confused
 
Dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years ago, but don't anymore as they went extinct.
 
None of that is very much like a dinosaur. Elephants or hippos, yes.
 
True said:
How does Christianity explain dinosaurs?
Most Christians understand dinosaurs to be 'explained' in the way that palaeontologists explain them.
Did they really exist and if so why did God wipe them out?
Yes, they really existed. What leads you to suppose that God wiped them out?
Or are they just planted by the devil to make humans believe that God does not exist?
Why would the existence or otherwise of dinosaurs (or any other animal, for that matter) exclude the existence of God?
How can so much information be collected and presumed on reptiles we have never seen before?
Painstaking and methodical research.
Did man actually inhabit the earth with these creatures?
There is no evidence that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.
There is reference to something in the bible about them in Job 40:15-24 :

It “eats grass like an ox.â€Â
It “moves his tail like a cedar.†(In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.â€Â)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze, his ribs like bars of iron.â€Â
“He is the first of the ways of God.â€Â
“He lies under the lotus trees, in a covert of reeds and marsh.â€Â

Is this a dinosaur or an elephant or hippo?
It is definitely not a dinosaur.
There are other references like this in Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. :study

This subject has been puzzling me for some time. :confused
There are plenty of good introductory texts on the origins, development and extinction of dinosaurs.
 
Lordkalvan

This was purely a post for debate. These are not my views. I have been reading a few texts written by Christians asking the very questions I have posed. I was merely gaging the opions of people in this forum.

There are a number of Christian sites and books that promote the co-existence of man and dinosaur, the ellimination of these beasts by God and the idea that they have been described in bible, all of which I am yet to be convinced.
 
True said:
This was purely a post for debate. These are not my views.
I'm sorry if I appeared to jump to conclusions; I tried to answer the points reasonably neutrally.
I have been reading a few texts written by Christians asking the very questions I have posed. I was merely gaging the opions of people in this forum.
So have you formed an opinion yet and, if so, why?
There are a number of Christian sites and books that promote the co-existence of man and dinosaur, the ellimination of these beasts by God and the idea that they have been described in bible, all of which I am yet to be convinced.
There are very many scientists who are Christians who will provide you with reasoned, documented studies based on observed and measured evidence that these ideas are erroneous.
 
God did not wipe out the dinosaurs it was a natural event most likely due to asteroid impact in the
gulf of Mexico. A huge impact like this 65 million years ago would have cause huge fractures in the lithosphere. The demise might have taken about a thousand or so years but it did happen and gave rise to the mammals and us thank the Lord. However, we still have dinosaurs with us today and they are called "birds"
:amen
 
There are very many scientists who are Christians who will provide you with reasoned, documented studies based on observed and measured evidence that these ideas are erroneous.
I doubt if 5 well meaning christian scientist stacked up against thousands of others who have huge evidence can hold the fort. Being a christian does not mean you believe in erroneous thoughts to keep your faith. I have faith because the Lord gave me a brain to reason and not listen to speculation. I accept scientific methodology because I know it is the best method to find the truth.
To me denying science is like living in the Spanish Inquisition and damning Galileo and Copernicus.
Come on..you can love the Lord and love science too. God gave us this gift..try not to lose it in medieval superstition nonsense.
yours

VFX
 
VenomFangX said:
There are very many scientists who are Christians who will provide you with reasoned, documented studies based on observed and measured evidence that these ideas are erroneous.
I doubt if 5 well meaning christian scientist stacked up against thousands of others who have huge evidence can hold the fort. Being a christian does not mean you believe in erroneous thoughts to keep your faith. I have faith because the Lord gave me a brain to reason and not listen to speculation. I accept scientific methodology because I know it is the best method to find the truth.
To me denying science is like living in the Spanish Inquisition and damning Galileo and Copernicus.
Come on..you can love the Lord and love science too. God gave us this gift..try not to lose it in medieval superstition nonsense.
I think you're agreeing with me?
 
There are what appears to be man tracks contemporary to dinosaurs in various dig sites.
Well, there used to be.
Prized Ryals Track destroyed once for all time! This is one of three tracks featured at the 1989 Dayton, TN creation conference that was destroyed the next day. On August 12, 1989 Dr. Don Patton spoke at a creation conference in Dayton, TN. He presented compelling evidence that both human and dinosaur tracks were present at the Taylor Trail, including these pictures.

Two well known evolutionists were present and at least one was conspicuously disturbed by this presentation. :mad

Both flew to Dallas the next morning and went immediately to the Paluxy River. It is reliably reported that they were in the river that afternoon with an "iron bar." Three days before they were in the river the footprint was observed looking like the pictures above. Three days after they were in the river, the track was destroyed.
Quoted from: http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ryals-track.htm

The belief that man and dinosaurs co-existed has been challenged:
For many years claims were made by strict creationists that human footprints or "giant man tracks" occur alongside dinosaur tracks in the limestone beds of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose Texas. If true, such a finding would dramatically contradict the conventional geologic timetable, which holds that humans did not appear on earth until over 60 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct. However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and have been abandoned even by most creationists. The supposed human tracks have involved a variety of phenomena, including forms of elongate (metatarsal) dinosaur tracks, erosional features, indistinct markings of uncertain origin, and some doctored and carved specimens (most of the latter on loose blocks of rock). This Web site provides a collection of articles reviewing the history of the controversy and evidence involved, articles on other alleged out-of-order fossils and artifacts, and information and links on dinosaur tracks in general.
Quoted from: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html

The idea that some "Tracks" have been subjected to deliberate vandalism is disturbing. I can not agree that such vandalism was done by scientists or by "well known evolutionists" because there is no (zero) compelling evidence. But when I actually look at some of the prints themselves? Well, they do look like man tracks over dinosaur prints. The only way to "explain" such observed phenomena would be to deny or discredit (or perhaps destroy?)

Click below to see the Java applet:
Java applet showing Man & Dino footprints
 
VenomFangX said:
God did not wipe out the dinosaurs it was a natural event most likely due to asteroid impact in the
gulf of Mexico. A huge impact like this 65 million years ago would have cause huge fractures in the lithosphere. The demise might have taken about a thousand or so years but it did happen and gave rise to the mammals and us thank the Lord. However, we still have dinosaurs with us today and they are called "birds"
:amen
l'm curious and may start a thread on this, the death of christ , science says no man can survive that yet we christians say christ did because of the belief that he was the son of god, and science denies that as no archeologist or natural scientist would disagree with the fact that any man crucified would die. To belief that christ lived requires faith. You believe in evolution yet because of science says but then say that crist died on the cross, what about the parts of the bible that jesus did miracles or raised the dead, or spoke on the end times, or what about the flood?

are you saved and do you pick apart the bible to believe?

jason
 
It might be noted that the Paluxy "man tracks" were debunked by a group of YE creationists from Loma Linda U. And one ICR board member noted that they needed evidence of people walking about in the middle of the "Flood" like they "needed a hole in the head."

It's not just that humans don't have three great toes, it's that if such tracks are true, the Flood is refuted.
 
You are correct the great global flood as we imagine is refuted, as there is no evidence at all of its existence. I for one would love to see some hard evidence, but none is forthcoming and everything says that it did not happen. However, I will postulate another interpretation or potential hypothesis.
As the whole world was in a specific geographical area during those days as no one then knew the Earth was spheroid. (In fact people were executed horribly by the Church for expressing ideas other than the doctrine of Heliocentric view in latter times and I am sure similar dogmas were present thousands of years earlier due to ignorance or fear). The weather then was most likely different to today in the location of the middle East with evidence of the desert being much further back from the Meditteranean. Monsoonal rains could have flooded the area which they called the Earth, which I think may be a possiblility. However, a more likely scenario is as follows, and it will be a combination of various natural events, of course due to "forced orbiting" and solar insolation. You may need to research the Milankovitch cycles on this one.As the Earth was also coming out of the last ice age(interstadials) of the holocene period, which we still live in and part of the Quaternary period, there was much more moisture around which would have resulted in a deluge of biblical proportions and possible in more locations around the globe. There is evidence of such glacial meltings forming huge lakes in the United States. The following is an example and similar scenarios would have been global but local in their impact.
During the last Ice Age, a finger of the Cordilleran ice sheet crept southward into the Idaho Panhandle, blocking the Clark Fork River and creating Glacial Lake Missoula. As the waters rose behind this 2,000-foot ice dam, they flooded the valleys of western Montana. At its greatest extent, Glacial Lake Missoula stretched eastward a distance of some 200 miles, essentially creating an inland sea.

Periodically, the ice dam would fail. These failures were often catastrophic, resulting in a large flood of ice- and dirt-filled water that would rush down the Columbia River drainage, across northern Idaho and eastern and central Washington, through the Columbia River Gorge, back up into Oregon's Willamette Valley, and finally pour into the Pacific Ocean at the mouth of the Columbia River.

The glacial lake, at its maximum height and extent, contained more than 500 cubic miles of water. When Glacial Lake Missoula burst through the ice dam and exploded downstream, it did so at a rate 10 times the combined flow of all the rivers of the world. This towering mass of water and ice literally shook the ground as it thundered towards the Pacific Ocean, stripping away thick soils and cutting deep canyons in the underlying bedrock. With flood waters roaring across the landscape at speeds approaching 65 miles per hour, the lake would have drained in as little as 48 hours.

But the Cordilleran ice sheet continued moving south and blocking the Clark Fork River again and again, creating other Glacial Lake Missoulas. Over thousands of years, the lake filling, dam failure, and flooding were repeated dozens of times, leaving a lasting mark on the landscape of the Northwest. Many of the distinguishing features of the Ice Age Floods remain throughout the region today.

Together, these two interwoven stories of the catastrophic floods and the formation of Glacial Lake Missoula are referred to as the "Ice Age Floods."
In conclusion, it would seem that similar glacial events certainly had an impact in Europe in the late Quaternary period, with flooding in the preliminary interstadials. This would indeed account for the perceived flooding over a massive area as reported in our Bible. The flooding was world wide, it was localised but massive but did not raise the oceans. Those reports to us via the bible were from our nearest ancestors the Neanderthals: by rejecting them it is possible you may be the same as rejecting a long lost brother. How far you go back in accepting evolution is your choice; your acceptance of love is yours only. No one can deny them Gods love, despite the eons gone . Everything is in balance: that is gods gift to us.
One tear drop can raise an ocean: that is also the gift from God.
yours
ÒõýþüäðýóÖ
 
The Barbarian said:
It might be noted that the Paluxy "man tracks" were debunked by a group of YE creationists from Loma Linda U. And one ICR board member noted that they needed evidence of people walking about in the middle of the "Flood" like they "needed a hole in the head."

It's not just that humans don't have three great toes, it's that if such tracks are true, the Flood is refuted.
Thanks Barbarian! I don't quite see how man and dinosaur being contemporary means that they "walked about in the middle of the flood," but then I'm not really standing here and saying that I know it all either.

How would the flood be refuted again? Is it possible to "refute" history?

~Sparrow
 
This is from http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/paluxy.htm
For many years claims were made by strict creationists that human footprints or "giant man tracks" occur alongside fossilized dinosaur tracks in the limestone beds of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose Texas. If true, such a finding would dramatically contradict the conventional geologic timetable, which holds that humans did not appear on earth until over 60 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct. However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been abandoned even by most creationists. the tracks have involved a variety of phenomena including forms of elongate, metatarsal dinosaur tracks, erosional features, indistinct markings of uncertain origin, and a smaller number of doctored and carved specimens (most of the latter occurring on loose blocks of rock). A few individuals continue to promote the Paluxy "man tracks" or alleged human tracks in pre-Tertiary rocks from other localities, but such claims are not considered credible by either mainstream scientists or major creationist groups.

I think this information is most likely correct. There are no dinosaur fossils in the records found after the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event 65 million years ago. This of course was not the only extinction event, there have been others. While the CT event killed 75% of the species the Permian–Triassic extinction event or PT event killed 95% of the species. This occurred some 251 million years ago, and enabled the evolution of the dinosaurs. I think that instead of relying on dubious markings in the ground, the finding of fossils side by side in common rock when dated would be a more reliable piece of evidence.
yours

ÒõýþüäðýóÖ
 
I think if you recheck you will find all the appropriate quotations there.
yours
VFX
 
is that avatar of the red square, or elsewhere, btw i have belarussian blood in me.

my dad's side is from belarus, they are belarussian jews.

jason
 
That is the Church of the Savior on Blood - áþñþр ÒþÑÂúрõÑÂõýøѠåрøÑÂтþòð. It is a kind of copy of the St Basils Cathedral in Red Square. This one is in St Peterburg and commemorates the Tsarevich Demetrius after a bomb was thrown at him. He survived the first one but not the second which also killed the Assassin.
yours
VFX
 
VenomFangX said:
That is the Church of the Savior on Blood - áþñþр ÒþÑÂúрõÑÂõýøѠåрøÑÂтþòð. It is a kind of copy of the St Basils Cathedral in Red Square. This one is in St Peterburg and commemorates the Tsarevich Demetrius after a bomb was thrown at him. He survived the first one but not the second which also killed the Assassin.
yours
VFX
i knew that if it wasnt moscow it would be st.peterburg, do they still have the statue of lenin there?
it was called leningrad,then stalingrad, then leningrad, then what you call it now st.peterburg.

jason
 
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