Christianity and the Source of all Truth

[Guest]

Today we continue our brief examination of the Shorter Catechism. We are now on Question and Answer Two of the Catechism. The first Question and Answer dealt with the meaning of life for man, but in this Question and Answer we will examine the source of all truth in matters of Faith and practice.
Let’s get started.

Question 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him?
Answer: The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy God.

All systems of thought have starting points. Every religion has a place from which it derives its teachings and doctrines. The starting point for Christianity is the Bible alone. The sixty six books of the Protestant Bible, to be exact, is the only starting point of Christianity.

Dr. Gary Crampton expresses this same idea in his book titled, “By Scripture Alone.†Crampton writes, “As Augustine pointed out centuries ago, all systems have axioms, which cannot be proved. They are starting points, without which no system could get started. All of our beliefs are ultimately based on presuppositions. The Protestant axiom, as taught by the Westminster Assembly and Reformed Protestantism, is that the Bible and the Bible alone is the Word of God, and it has a systematic monopoly on truth†(By Scripture Alone, part II, page 147).
Dr. Crampton's book can be purchased at this link:
http://www.trinitylectures.org/product_ ... f6290ce978

The Bible is accepted as true and is the basis for thousands of logical arguments and inferences.

The Westminster Confession of Faith comments on this stating, “The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture†(WCF, I, article 6).
A copy of the Westminster Standards can be obtained at this link:
http://www.lulu.com/content/538304

What this means is that Calvinism starts with Scripture alone, then makes use of deductive logic to systematically construct its theology. Some doctrines are expressly stated in the Scripture. For example, the Bible plainly states that God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1, John 1:1). However, other doctrines must be logically deduced from Scripture. For example, the doctrine of the Trinity is deduced from a multitude of different verses throughout the Bible. Therefore, a good understanding of deductive logic is essential to the study of Scripture.

When the catechism teaches us that the Scripture is to be our only rule, or authority, then it means that all other teachings must be judged in light of the Bible. If a minister teaches something that is opposed to the teaching of Scripture, then that minister’s teaching is false. The Bible can not be contradicted. We see this principle being demonstrated in the Book of Acts, chapter 17: 11,12. Paul and Silas preached their doctrine to the Bereans, but the Bereans did not accept the teachings of the Apostle to be true just because they were the official clergy of the church in that day. No, we see that the Bereans, “received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.â€Â

We are never to consider the religious traditions or the authority of any sinful man or sect to be above the written Word of God. The Bible says, “that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against the other†(1 Corinthians 4:6).

The importance and sufficiency of Scripture cannot be emphasized enough. The Bible states, “And from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good worksâ€Â
(2 Timothy 4:15-17).

The Bible never sends us to seek the advice of popes or mystical gurus. It is the Bible, not some church, which is able to make us wise unto salvation. It is the Bible, not the teachings of men, that is said to be inspired by God. It is the Bible, and not rituals, human traditions, or religious experiences, which is sufficient to thoroughly furnish us and fit us for every good work. Since it is only the Bible, and nothing else, which can do all of these things, then Calvinists say that Scripture Alone is our only rule in matters of faith and practice?

This principle was widely taught during the Protestant Reformation by Lutherans and Calvinists. It came to be known as Sola Scriptura.

Before the Reformation, the Roman Catholic Church-state refused to translate the Bible into the vernacular languages of the people. The pope, just like the devil before him, sought the throne of God, claimed to be God on earth, and demanded all men to obey and worship him. The pope and his clergy withheld the Bible from the laity. They knew that if the people were to ever read the Scriptures for themselves, then their corruption would be laid bare. Their superstitions would be repudiated, and their doctrine would be condemned by the very Scripture which they claimed to interpret infallibly.

Men like Erasmus of Rotterdam, published books demonstrating how the Roman Catholic Church itself, the idea of a pope, the office of bishops, and the enormous body of superstitions and human traditions could not be found anywhere in Scripture.
Erasmus’ book ‘Praise of Folly’ speaks even today against the absurdities of the pope and his Bible hating system known as Roman Catholicism.

Men had to translate and publish the Bible into English, German, and other languages at the risk of their own lives. Men were murdered by the Catholic Church in the attempt to prevent the people from having God’s precious word in their own language. Men like William Tyndale were burned at the stake by Catholics for merely trying to give the English speaking people of Britain the Bible in their own language. The Bible teaches us that it is the Devil and the spirit of Antichrist which has long ago infiltrated the churches and still seeks today to withhold the Scriptures from God’s people. The Bible says, “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ†(Jude v.4).

Let us close with a few verses that emphasize the importance of our serious study of Scripture Alone.

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hopeâ€Â
Romans 15:4.

“Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path†Psalm 119:105.

“The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple†Psalm 119:130.`


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[Guest]

Make a resolution to memorize the Westminster Shorter Catechism this new year!

Red Beetle

 

[Guest]

:angel:

 

[DISconect2]

I just have a question, why do you feel the need to teach your beliefs on this forum? I am not being disrespectful to you as you seem like a very educated person. I was just simply wondering.

 

[AHIMSA]

The sixty six books of the Protestant Bible, to be exact, is the only starting point of Christianity.

I find this a rather dubious claim, seeing as the first Christians had no scripture at all besides the Torah. At this point in Judaism, the Hebrew scriptures were authoratative but there was still no consensus on any books outside of the Torah. Thus books that are non-canonical today such as the Book of Enoch, were used avidly by Jews and most likely read by many of the early Christians (who themselves were Jews).

Thus the starting point of Christianity was the belief that the Word of God was revealled in the Torah and made fulfilled by the living revelation of Jesus as the Christ. The idea that written gospels, epistles and Christian apocalyptic literature was the "Word of God" was completely absent in the beginning.

I don't think we can conclude that the Bible, both testaments, is the starting point of the Christian movement because Christianity's first followers did not have these tools, most specifically, in the way they are considered and utilized today,

 

[Veritas]

AHISMA wrote:
I don't think we can conclude that the Bible, both testaments, is the starting point of the Christian movement because Christianity's first followers did not have these tools, most specifically, in the way they are considered and utilized today

I think RED BEETLE means that the starting point for Christianity today, at present time, (and for the greater part of the past two millenia) is the Bible alone. Which, by the way, I agree with.

I guess if you want to get really technical about it, I will admit that God can start with a revelation to someone in a dream before they read a Bible, but I know that God will give them His Word, which is also His Bible. So, in the end they will be led to the Bible for Truth.

 

[lovely]

Hi Monty,

Can you give an explanation on how the Word works with the Holy Spirit in teaching men Truth? We know that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, teaches us the things of God, convicts, and testifies of Christ, so can you comment on the effects of the Word apart from the Holy Spirit? Jesus said that those who are of the Truth will hear His voice just before Pilate asked Him, "What is Truth?" indicating by his own words that he was not one of the Truth himself. Jesus also repeatedly said, "He that has ears to hear, let him hear?" which seems to say that some are hearing His words, yet not hearing His voice. So, what is the Word to those who do not have the Spirit of Truth, and how would you say this relates to Sola Scriptura?

Secondly, we speak of logic as a tool to glean Truth from the Scripture, but could you give an explanation on how we reconcile man's logic with the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and also having a proper fear of God?

The Lord bless you, and thanks.

 

[Solo]

I find this a rather dubious claim, seeing as the first Christians had no scripture at all besides the Torah. At this point in Judaism, the Hebrew scriptures were authoratative but there was still no consensus on any books outside of the Torah. Thus books that are non-canonical today such as the Book of Enoch, were used avidly by Jews and most likely read by many of the early Christians (who themselves were Jews).

Thus the starting point of Christianity was the belief that the Word of God was revealled in the Torah and made fulfilled by the living revelation of Jesus as the Christ. The idea that written gospels, epistles and Christian apocalyptic literature was the "Word of God" was completely absent in the beginning.

I don't think we can conclude that the Bible, both testaments, is the starting point of the Christian movement because Christianity's first followers did not have these tools, most specifically, in the way they are considered and utilized today,

The Torah, being the five books of Moses (also called the Pentateuch), was available as you have posted, but there were many more books of Scripture available to the Christians of the First Century. Let me explain.

The entire Old Testament was fixed by the year 400 B.C.
The entire New Testament was written by the year 100 B.C.

Jesus and the Apostles quoted out of the following books of the Old Testament. Jesus quotes 24 of the 39 Old Testament books. The New Testament quotes 34 of the Old Testament books excluding Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. (Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon were books contained in collections of works with books that were quoted, therefore they were included as inspired works).

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-jesus-favor ... script.htm

 

[Drew]

The Westminster Confession of Faith comments on this stating, “The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture

I am very much open to the idea that all things related to matters of faith and salvation are expressly set forth or deducible from the Scriptures.

However, I will propose the following for the reader's consideration:

1. Life experience - living in the real world - is a valuable source of "information" on "how to live". So I would say that such experience will and should inform how we read and interpret the Scriptures. I suspect that this probably is not at odds with the quoted statement. A 70 year old will probably have a more correct understanding on what it means to love than a 15 year old, even if they both have equal knowledge of the Scriptures.

2. Certain items of knowledge are rather obviously not deducible from the Scriptures - e.g. the number of elements in the periodic table or the distance from the Sun to Neptune. Again, I suspect the authors of this "catechism" would not take exception to such statements. They were probably aware of the seemingly obvious facts that some information about the world can only be acquired through empirical means.

 

[JM]

Start with God [think His thoughts {found in Scripture} after Him], this is theology.

Start with man [think your own thoughts about Scripture], this is anthropology.

~JM~

 

[Veritas]

I disagree with you Drew.

What JM posted is relevant.

For a Christian, there is only folly in the real "world". To show the distinction between the "world" and "God's Word" we can look at that first example of a 70 year old knowing love more than a young person. What do the Scriptures say?

He (Jesus) said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:14,15

And what of the items of knowledge that are not deducible from Scripture? They are interesting, but do they really matter? Look at what Solomon (a very knowledgable man) thought:

I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven.... I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:13,14

I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge. Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

 

[Solo]

I disagree with you Drew.

What JM posted is relevant.

For a Christian, there is only folly in the real "world". To show the distinction between the "world" and "God's Word" we can look at that first example of a 70 year old knowing love more than a young person. What do the Scriptures say?

He (Jesus) said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." Mark 10:14,15

And what of the items of knowledge that are not deducible from Scripture? They are interesting, but do they really matter? Look at what Solomon (a very knowledgable man) thought:

I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven.... I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:13,14

I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge. Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:16,17

Nice reproof. Truth reigns, not man's wisdom.

 

[Drew]

Hello Veritas:

Is it cold out there in Montana. Here in Ottawa, we are getting our first real blast of cold.....

Of course I cannot prove that a 70 year old will typically know more about love than a 15 year old. I just hold it to be rather self-evidently true that the accumulated knowledge of life - experience, lessons learned, wisdom gained, etc, generally makes one more capable to interpret the Scriptures in accordance with what the writers factually intended.

On your second point, I think it is patently clear that some knowledge that is not deducible from the Scriptures is extremely important. Take penicillin, for example. I assume we agree that the Scriptures do not give us a clue about how to create such a medecine. And yet it (and other medical technologies) greatly reduce suffering and premature death.

On a related note, I believe that people create a false separation of the sacred and the secular if they claim that creating such life-supporting technologies are not a manifestation of the Biblical imperative to love one another.

As far as what JM seems to be saying: The only game in town is "our thoughts about Scripture". Any belief that we have about "His thoughts" is, by our very constitution, inextricably bound up in our own mental apparatus. In short, "our thoughts" about Scripture are all we have.

 

[Vic C.]

Start with God [think His thoughts {found in Scripture} after Him], this is theology.

Start with man [think your own thoughts about Scripture], this is anthropology.

~JM~

This is true. I just begun a study on Biblical Theology and the first thing they stress is to look for God revealed in Scripture. Start with God; it all begins with HIS revelations, not with man's "thoughts' about HIM. Something for me to remember. ;-)

 

[Drew]

This is true. I just begun a study on Biblical Theology and the first thing they stress is to look for God revealed in Scripture. Start with God; it all begins with HIS revelations, not with man's "thoughts' about HIM. Something for me to remember. ;-)

Hello Vic:

Of course, we are to look for God "revealed in Scripture". But if you are going to tell me that you can achieve this without having "thoughts" (which are obviously the thoughts of a man - Vic, in this case) then you possess a mystical faculty that I do not.

All of our beliefs about God are necessarily expressed as our thoughts about God.

What JM is asking us to do is obviously impossible - if God's thoughts are found in the Scriptures (as JM believes that they are), those thoughts are only accessible to us in the form of "our thoughts" - when we read words, thoughts (our thoughts obviously) are stimulated. This is the way God has set up the world.

 

[JM]

What JM posted is relevant.

Modern theology usually want us to begin from a fallen/pagan view point, man’s view point and work our way up to God [anthropology]. All I suggest is we start with God and work our way down to man [theology]. You may find interest in presuppositional apologetics. http://www.the-highway.com/defense_VanTil.html

This is true. I just begun a study on Biblical Theology and the first thing they stress is to look for God revealed in Scripture. Start with God; it all begins with HIS revelations, not with man's "thoughts' about HIM. Something for me to remember.

Exactly! Start with God, His purpose, His decrees, His thoughts.

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, what is the cheif purpose of God?

Peace,

~JM~

 

[Vic C.]

... I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, what is the cheif purpose of God?

Peace,

~JM~

Here's a clue...

Psalm 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

exalt
to elevate by praise or in estimation (root=esteem): GLORIFY
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/exalt

 

[Drew]

Modern theology usually want us to begin from a fallen/pagan view point, man’s view point and work our way up to God [anthropology]. All I suggest is we start with God and work our way down to man [theology].

I agree with this - we need to look at the Scriptures and see what they teach us about the nature of God and man. I would politely ask people to consider the possibility that just because I disagree with their take on what the Scriptures actually do teach, this does not necessarily mean that I have adopted an "anthropological" stance.

Let me ask a direct question to myself and to JM.

1. Question to Drew: Is it possible that your "anti-Calvinist" views go against what the Scriptures actually teach?

Drew's Answer: Yes it is possible. My study of the Scriptures leads me to doubt the correctness of what I understand to be Calvinist teachings, but continued study might cause me to change my mind.

2. Question to JM (or to any other Calvinist for that matter): Is it possible that your Calvinist views go against what the Scriptures actually teach?

JM (and / or others) can answer if they wish.

 

[Drew]

A note of clarification: While I do agree that we should look at the Scriptures as our starting point and as the ultimate authority on matters of faith, morality, etc., I do believe that God teaches us about truth in other ways as well - through the "lessons of life" for example. And also through an empirical approach to gaining knowledge. So, for example, I do not believe that the Earth is 10,000 years old even though a "literal" reading of the Scriptures would tend to promote such a view.

In the end, I think that this can all work together without contradiction - however, I am more than happy to entertain arguments that its kind of an "all or nothing" affair such that any "lesson of life" or empirical investigation should be eyed with suspicion.

In a sense I think that 'separating' the teaching of Scriptures from the lessons and data of life is a separation that cannot work. This is a though that just occurred to me, so I will say no more for the present.

 

[Veritas]

Drew, it was cold, it must be going your way. Its warming up to the teens now (I'm speaking Farienhiet). It was 20 - 50 below zero here just last week!

On the first point, I find that "worldly" knowledge almost always attempts to undermine the Bible (ie, Genesis must be a myth, Moses really couldn't have parted the Red Sea like It says, Jonah couldn't have been swallowed by a fish, Prophecy cant really happen, etc etc.) Now, not always. But I think that is mostly because "the world" is forced to. I'm thinking of the thousands of archeological artifacts which support the Bible's claims, even miraculous claims.

On your second point, I will agree with you that, yes, penecillin is important for the body. And we know it is good to find ways to take care of the body...

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? 1 Corinthians 6:19

And of course we should desire to help others. But we should always keep in mind that...

You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
1 Corinthians 6:20

That said, penicillin won't save someones soul. And in that way, I mean, does it really matter? What is more important? Temporary relief from suffering here on earth, or eternal relief from suffering.

Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:3-5