Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted?

[Chris]

Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted in peoples minds?

To me Christianity is simple enough for a little kid to understand it.

Adam and eve sinned-Man let sin into the world- separation from Gods original plan.

You are a sinner you cant possibly live a perfect life without sin and displeasing god. ( only Jesus lived a perfect life and was a worthy atonement for our sins)

Jesus became the only way to wash our sins away and be put right with God by accepting him as lord and savior for his sacrifice for us on the cross when he took our place as an atonement for sin.


At conversion you surrender your life to Jesus. Now as a follower, you have all your sins past and present are forgiven, as you repent of your old life and take up the new.

In future you try not to sin anymore and if you do you confess it.

Get baptized in water and holy spirit either at conversion or later.

You now try to live like your example Jesus.

You now tap into the holy spirit and live your life in a new found happiness, inner joy and peace. You live to serve god as best you can. You try to communicate with Jesus often.

I dont understand. People go through this incredibly simple thing receive the holy spirit (and from this have confirmation God is real) go about their new faith in happiness then confuse the whole thing with ridiculous questions like science vs spiritual. Then they fall away as disbelievers because they have confused themselves.

I have felt the holy spirit..I have no more questions.

 

[Elijah674]

Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted in peoples minds?

To me Christianity is simple enough for a little kid to understand it.

Adam and eve sinned-Man let sin into the world- separation from Gods original plan.

You are a sinner you cant possibly live a perfect life without sin and displeasing god. ( only Jesus lived a perfect life and was a worthy atonement for our sins)

Jesus became the only way to wash our sins away and be put right with God by accepting him as lord and savior for his sacrifice for us on the cross when he took our place as an atonement for sin.


At conversion you surrender your life to Jesus. Now as a follower, you have all your sins past and present are forgiven, as you repent of your old life and take up the new.

In future you try not to sin anymore and if you do you confess it.

Get baptized in water and holy spirit either at conversion or later.

You now try to live like your example Jesus.

You now tap into the holy spirit and live your life in a new found happiness, inner joy and peace. You live to serve god as best you can. You try to communicate with Jesus often.

I dont understand. People go through this incredibly simple thing receive the holy spirit (and from this have confirmation God is real) go about their new faith in happiness then confuse the whole thing with ridiculous questions like science vs spiritual. Then they fall away as disbelievers because they have confused themselves.

I have felt the holy spirit..I have no more questions.

No more questions??? That is only 1/2 of the Truth as 'i' see it. Your post remind's me of the Required Sacrifice at the altar as being done, (O.S.A.S.) and then leaving the REQUIRED 'LOVING' WALK FORWARD of Matt.28:18-20 undone?

And then instead of moving on to the required Lavor Washing & then on into the REQUIRED Further 'Matt. 4:4' Bread Eating +,

that we then can just stop while CLAIMING faith in the Sacrifice of Christ alone, (Rom. 8:1) & then just go back on home instead of verse 14 of being [LED] on!?

Remember friend, that there was a WAR IN HEAVEN! And the Cross of Christ needs His Grace (Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9) to make it bearable in this war on earth! Eph. 6:12.

--Elijah

 

[Chris]

No more questions??? That is only 1/2 of the Truth as 'i' see it. Your post remind's me of the Required Sacrifice at the altar as being done, (O.S.A.S.) and then leaving the REQUIRED 'LOVING' WALK FORWARD of Matt.28:18-20 undone?

And then instead of moving on to the required Lavor Washing & then on into the REQUIRED Further 'Matt. 4:4' Bread Eating +,

that we then can just stop while CLAIMING faith in the Sacrifice of Christ alone, (Rom. 8:1) & then just go back on home instead of verse 14 of being [LED] on!?

Remember friend, that there was a WAR IN HEAVEN! And the Cross of Christ needs His Grace (Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9) to make it bearable in this war on earth! Eph. 6:12.

--Elijah

serving god via holy spirit is sharing your faith. Its hard be fillled with the holy spirit without the desire to share your faith. Its not really confusing unless you want confusion in your life.. i dont

 

[jasoncran]

Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted in peoples minds?

To me Christianity is simple enough for a little kid to understand it.

Adam and eve sinned-Man let sin into the world- separation from Gods original plan.

You are a sinner you cant possibly live a perfect life without sin and displeasing god. ( only Jesus lived a perfect life and was a worthy atonement for our sins)

Jesus became the only way to wash our sins away and be put right with God by accepting him as lord and savior for his sacrifice for us on the cross when he took our place as an atonement for sin.


At conversion you surrender your life to Jesus. Now as a follower, you have all your sins past and present are forgiven, as you repent of your old life and take up the new.

In future you try not to sin anymore and if you do you confess it.

Get baptized in water and holy spirit either at conversion or later.

You now try to live like your example Jesus.

You now tap into the holy spirit and live your life in a new found happiness, inner joy and peace. You live to serve god as best you can. You try to communicate with Jesus often.

I dont understand. People go through this incredibly simple thing receive the holy spirit (and from this have confirmation God is real) go about their new faith in happiness then confuse the whole thing with ridiculous questions like science vs spiritual. Then they fall away as disbelievers because they have confused themselves.

I have felt the holy spirit..I have no more questions.

well first off, since you are a charismatic, what keeps thee. the gifts or the word of God? the later. experiental is fine we need that to know that our God does what he says and so that our faith is real and that those that dont have the faith to trust god for(i will use my healings and my story) for a job,delieverance from porn, a house, bisexuality, social awkardness.etc. our lives are on display as we are his church that he called to be his body.

now then one DOESNT base theology on expericences that can lead to all kinds of trouble. we also often dont read the word. and also sometimes the pastors teach false doctrines or in err. ie some say the pre-trib eschatology and others preterism. if one is honest eschatology and also pre-destination and even hell arent so clear cut.

 

[Drew]

There is indeed a sense in which Christianity is simple and can be understood by a child. But there are many layers of richness and complexity on top of that.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
One of the tactics that the U.S. Government utilizes to manipulate American citizens is disinformation; which Webster's defines as : false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth. For example, Bush Jr. utilized disinformation to justify invading Iraq.

What I'm getting at is this : Were I the Devil, I would utilize disinformation in such a way that not just unbelievers would go to hell; but also Christians too; and apparently he thought of that tactic way before Mr. Bush because according to the Lord's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to his own religion; numbers of Christians haven't been, and won't be, making it to safety when they cross over to the other side; and he said there are "many" rather than just a few.

†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day : Lord, Master, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them : I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

It's difficult to comprehend that there are many wearing the Christian label who don't know that they're workers of iniquity instead of workers of righteousness; and that those same many are actually preaching, exorcising, and actively involved in rescue missions, disaster relief, and operating orphanages and hostels : all due to disinformation.

†. 2Pet 3:16 . . Some of Paul's comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and vacillating have twisted his epistles around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of Scripture— and the result is disaster for them.

According to Peter, Christianity is not the simple faith many have been led to believe. On the contrary, it's "hard to understand" which is to the Devil's advantage because it makes disinformation that much easier to propagate among the ignorant and the vacillating.

Note : vacillating people often pride themselves in being "open-minded"

Ignorance can be defined as (1) destitute of knowledge or education, (2) lacking knowledge, or comprehension of the thing specified, and (3) a lack of intelligence.

Synonyms for ignorance are : illiterate, unlettered, unlearned, and untutored.

Illiterate applies to either an absolute or a relative inability to read and write

Unlettered implies ignorance of the knowledge gained by reading

Untutored may imply lack of schooling in the arts and ways of civilization

Unlearned suggests ignorance of advanced subjects; e.g. mathematics, religion, agriculture, metallurgy, poetry, art, psychiatry, civics, cosmology, war, geology, et al.

ps : America consumes 19 million barrels of oil every 24 hours on the clock; which figures out to 6,935,000,000 billion barrels per calendar year. Iraq doesn't sit on top of nearly as much oil as Saudi Arabia, but as the planet's oil begins to run dry, every barrel will count down towards oil's end; which really isn't all that far off; ergo : countries like Iraq and Libya have to be liberated from the control of unstable regimes. It's a matter of economic survival that America take an active role in deposing unstable oil regimes. Bush Jr. and Mr. Obama must think we're all a citizenry of dunces who can't understand that or they'd come out with the truth underlying their foreign policies in the Mideast.

2011's graduate students might legitimately ask : Will my grandchildren ever be able to ride in an airplane? The answer may very well be NO. That's just one of the grim realities of the inevitability of oil's decline. Quantities of oil that remain by the time of the grandchildren of today's grads, will be so expensive, so scarce, so difficult to extract, and so limited, that only the very rich will be able to afford to travel by air. Gasoline for cars? Tightly rationed of course; that is, if internal combustion engines of any kind, either conventional or hybrid, are even legal by then.

The world is moving towards a drastic transition from the industrial age to an age I can't even begin to imagine without oil; and the transition is really not all that many years away from now. Will the world devolve into a Mad Max society? I don't know; but of one thing I'm pretty sure. Nation will go to war with nation to secure for themselves whatever oil reserves remain. How do I know that? Because America is, and has been, already doing that very thing.

Incidentally, there are no mechanized conveyances mentioned anywhere in the book of Revelation. What might that suggest? Well, it suggests to me that manufacturing as we know it today will not exist down towards the end; and it's not all that difficult to figure out why. Fossil fuels— coal, oil, and natural gas —will be so depleted by then that current manufacturing methods will be a thing of the past. You know who I think might do very well in the future? People who know how to farm, and people who know how to make things by hand.

I hate sounding like another crazy alarmist like that old guy who was in the news recently because that is so negative; but I'm pretty sure in my own mind that the grandchildren of 2011's grads won't be looking at just another spurious Y2K meltdown that got survivalists excited at the turn of the last century; no, they'll be looking at the irreversible collapse of their parents' way of life.

C.L.I.F.F.
|

 

[Webb]

Its the devil.
Most agree its the blood of Jesus that cleanses and saves. Yet the three times where we learn about the blood the religious world scoffs at it. Its the devils' work to keep as many of mankind from the presious blood of Jesus. Be the best moral man ever seen, yet if the blood of Christ has not been appropriated to our sin ridden souls we are lost. That simple!!!

 

[Adullam]

Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted in peoples minds?

To me Christianity is simple enough for a little kid to understand it.

Adam and eve sinned-Man let sin into the world- separation from Gods original plan.

You are a sinner you cant possibly live a perfect life without sin and displeasing god. ( only Jesus lived a perfect life and was a worthy atonement for our sins)

Jesus became the only way to wash our sins away and be put right with God by accepting him as lord and savior for his sacrifice for us on the cross when he took our place as an atonement for sin.


At conversion you surrender your life to Jesus. Now as a follower, you have all your sins past and present are forgiven, as you repent of your old life and take up the new.

In future you try not to sin anymore and if you do you confess it.

Get baptized in water and holy spirit either at conversion or later.

You now try to live like your example Jesus.

You now tap into the holy spirit and live your life in a new found happiness, inner joy and peace. You live to serve god as best you can. You try to communicate with Jesus often.

I dont understand. People go through this incredibly simple thing receive the holy spirit (and from this have confirmation God is real) go about their new faith in happiness then confuse the whole thing with ridiculous questions like science vs spiritual. Then they fall away as disbelievers because they have confused themselves.

I have felt the holy spirit..I have no more questions.

Sounds complicated!

How about this for simplicity!

Do the will of the Father! :yes

 

[jasoncran]

There is indeed a sense in which Christianity is simple and can be understood by a child. But there are many layers of richness and complexity on top of that.

of course why would the infinitely greater God write such a large book with so much enigma written on his full nature as he hasnt revealed all there is to know about him in the bible, nor what he has written is dead the bible is alive. i found something interest that smacked me on the rapture that any pretribber wont see or hasnt told me.

i have read the new testament a few times.

 

[Free]

The Gospel is relatively simple, yes. However, sharing that Gospel in a changing world suddenly changes things. We need to try and understand all that Scripture has to say about God, us, our relationship to Him, how humanity came to be in the state it is in, our purpose and position in the world, and our final destiny. These are the questions people ask when confronted with the Gospel which immediately and sometimes severely complicates things.

 

[smaller]

Christianity- Its such a simple faith how does it end up so convoluted in peoples minds?

To me Christianity is simple enough for a little kid to understand it.

Adam and eve sinned-Man let sin into the world- separation from Gods original plan.

You are a sinner you cant possibly live a perfect life without sin and displeasing god. ( only Jesus lived a perfect life and was a worthy atonement for our sins)

Jesus became the only way to wash our sins away and be put right with God by accepting him as lord and savior for his sacrifice for us on the cross when he took our place as an atonement for sin.


At conversion you surrender your life to Jesus. Now as a follower, you have all your sins past and present are forgiven, as you repent of your old life and take up the new.

In future you try not to sin anymore and if you do you confess it.

Get baptized in water and holy spirit either at conversion or later.

You now try to live like your example Jesus.

You now tap into the holy spirit and live your life in a new found happiness, inner joy and peace. You live to serve god as best you can. You try to communicate with Jesus often.

I dont understand. People go through this incredibly simple thing receive the holy spirit (and from this have confirmation God is real) go about their new faith in happiness then confuse the whole thing with ridiculous questions like science vs spiritual. Then they fall away as disbelievers because they have confused themselves.

I have felt the holy spirit..I have no more questions.

Every believer goes through certain and differing cycles in their lives of belief. It is unavoidable.

Early after my 'conversion,' after I tangibly 'felt' the love of God in Christ in my heart and was instantly transformed, I went about nearly giddy in my new found faith, never moving unless I 'felt' that The Spirit was therein leading. This led me to call upon The Lord many times, sometimes in ridiculous fashions, yet He was faithful sometimes and not at other times. I laid hands on the dash of my pickup when it was empty of gas and my wallet also empty, and drove that vehicle for several miles after it had died from lack of gas. God was therein faithful. Another time I broke my glasses 'in faith' asking the Lord to heal me. He didn't.

And on that particular course came and went for me. It finally 'went' because I realized I was, in reality, testing God and commanding His Performances for me as "I" determined, and not how the course of my life may go in "His" Plan. I did not know where that 'plan' would take me, then. In retrospect it was quite different and far better than any plan I could have contrived on my own. Yes, ups and downs, but overall...sooner or later, I was led to seek understandings of my own failings, the whys, and also 'why' believers in all these various sects were and remain so utterly divided.

That 'phase' led me into various camps of all sizes and dimensions. The charismatic camp came first, as I was a ZEALot, and so were most of them. Then came the failings of their various doctrines, some totally bizarre, some legit as usual. Then the 'determinist' camps, old school holiness camps, freewill camps, traditional and orthodox camps. Even Christian mystic camps. I believe I have sincerely 'tried' to camp with all my fellow believers and have learned a great deal of all of their positions and understandings.

In the end though, not as a 'where I'm at now' position, I saw the vanity and fruitlessness of all these various separations, and ultimately I was 'forced' by God to examine my own failings of being Perfect in a personal way, and at that point God really got real to me from the scriptures, leading me to understandings that were sound and very very reasoned. And in this way I have resided for quite a long time now, as a new dimension of faith took hold some 15 years ago. My 'real' enemies have been revealed (they are not the unbelievers or my fellow believers) but the powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness that 'all' of us continue to be 'subject to.' It is as real as gravity to me, but as in Gods Fashion, these things are hidden in plain sight, and only He can unlock the door, or shut it tightly. Both of those workings are now operational not only in my understandings, but in real time, real walk.

A believer does come to vastly different reasonings when God picks up the pace of chastisement and discipline. And that for me has gone on for quite a long time. I will not claim the 'prettiness' of that working, as it is very hard. Particularly when one believes himself to be blameless and forthright. That is simply not the 'factual' case with any of us. And there are continuing reasons for that that God will bring to the fore in any believers life.

Hebrews 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

I'll spare the elaboration herein, but there are very uncomfortable conclusions to this working reality of God that few can stomach. And even fewer who will find the road of life, being taken captive along the way by the workings of evil in their hearts.

Yes, part of the conclusion one WILL be led to sooner or later is that EVIL does reside therein in all of us. It is not a pleasant conclusion.

enjoy!

s

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah here:
Note the Word 'ALL ARE PARTAKERS' Meaning Born Again ones can fall from Grace if the chastiseing CONDITION is left purposely left un/done! And these Chastisements can be tough to do and be 'negelected!' [Sin of Omission] such as to 'key out' open doctrinal sin & unrepentant sinners, huh! Matt. 18:17-18 + see 1 Cor. 5:3-5!
And Josh 7:12's last part of the verse is an Inspired fact!! So who is the Leader of these Rev. 17:1-5 ones! Rev. 3:9.

Your post in part...

Hebrews 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

I'll spare the elaboration herein, but there are very uncomfortable conclusions to this working reality of God that few can stomach. And even fewer who will find the road of life, being taken captive along the way by the workings of evil in their hearts.

Yes, part of the conclusion one WILL be led to sooner or later is that EVIL does reside therein in all of us. It is not a pleasant conclusion.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Elijah here:
Note the Word 'ALL ARE PARTAKERS' Meaning Born Again ones can fall from Grace if the chastiseing CONDITION is left purposely left un/done! And these Chastisements can be tough to do and be 'negelected!' [Sin of Omission] such as to 'key out' open doctrinal sin & unrepentant sinners, huh! Matt. 18:17-18 + see 1 Cor. 5:3-5!
And Josh 7:12's last part of the verse is an Inspired fact!! So who is the Leader of these Rev. 17:1-5 ones! Rev. 3:9.

Your post in part...

Hebrews 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

I'll spare the elaboration herein, but there are very uncomfortable conclusions to this working reality of God that few can stomach. And even fewer who will find the road of life, being taken captive along the way by the workings of evil in their hearts.

Yes, part of the conclusion one WILL be led to sooner or later is that EVIL does reside therein in all of us. It is not a pleasant conclusion.

enjoy!

s

If I had a nickel from every believer who justified themselves by not eating pork or attending church on a certain day....

 

[Chris]

I think you guys are missing something I said. You have this really simple faith system, yeah and I didn't list everything down. There needs to be spiritual maturity after conversion too via learning.

The part that baffles me is why someone then begins wanting to introduce other philosophies and science into the picture looking for more evidence for them to believe. They just make it hard for themselves.


Ill give you an example.
I was at a school outreach scripture thing I do and one of the 18 year old kids who's not a Christian asked me if the world is 6000 years old. I thought about my answer because this might be my one chance to sow a seed.

I said it could be or may not be but who cares? It don't matter one bit. The thing about this bible we are talking about is one thing, the forgiveness of sins via Jesus sacrifice for us to be put right with God the father that results in eternal life.

The important thing most of all is there is a holy spirit you can tap into as a saved believer (I found this in my bedroom at 12 years old all by myself with only a basic fundamental knowledge of Christianity and a very basic sheet I got at a camp and i became a christian, by myself with no other knowledge then) I tried to take his focus off all the unimportant stuff right into forgiveness of sins and being put right with God.

I told him people tie themselves up with too much thinking of unimportant stuff and miss the mark, that bible is a way to access Jesus salvation and having your guilt removed. When you do this spiritual presence around us will flood into you it is called the holy spirit and is a gift from God to Christians. the bible is the access instructions to it.

If I started with the creation/evolution theories- that are utterly pointless arguments and big time wasters, I would have lost that window of opportunity to let him meet with Jesus.

 

[jasoncran]

so if the christian decided to rip out and never read genesis would that be wise as well as science says its(the naturalistic ones) a lie. God didnt mean it that way so we are reading it wrong, yet the same athiest dont care about God. sure its not a salvinic issue but then what is the point of actually knowing how properly read and interpret the bible?

i have learned from science debates with athiest and the poes elsewhere and some here that i have suspect.its all about making us doubt our bible. darwin started doubting genesis and soon left God all together , he plainly said that in his journals. the heavens declare the glory of lord, they speak of his majesty. yet natural science while doesnt or cant deny the existence of God , many athiestis and some accredited scientists/ professors will deny God in creation and state my favorite"

all things must have a natural explanation or that order in the universe isnt really order it just appears that way because we have given it meaning"

ok so what caused the big bang?where did that energy come from or where did the matter come from. they cant know that only speculate on possibilities(hypothetically based on what is OBSERVABLE AND TESTABLE NOW) AND THEN speculate with the coulda , shoulda and didda. that my friend is a religious statement and non-falfsefiable thus not science.

 

[Bonairos]

I tried to take his focus off all the unimportant stuff right into forgiveness of sins and being put right with God.

If I started with the creation/evolution theories- that are utterly pointless arguments and big time wasters, I would have lost that window of opportunity to let him meet with Jesus.

Sort of like getting the cart before the horse and yet expecting to gain (some kind of) ground?! HAHA!

I feel you my brother. Too often we major in the minor and minor in the major.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!




BTW, I appreciate your heart in bringing lives to the foot of the cross.

 

[Chris]

Sort of like getting the cart before the horse and yet expecting to gain (some kind of) ground?! HAHA!

I feel you my brother. Too often we major in the minor and minor in the major.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!



BTW, I appreciate your heart in bringing lives to the foot of the cross.

Thanks dude! That kids question brought this thread into being

 

[WIP]

Sounds complicated!

How about this for simplicity!

Do the will of the Father! :yes

Or....Have faith like that of a child. We make it complicated when we begin to question God. I'll quote myself. "Just believe, no evidence required."

 

[jasoncran]

well thats a misunderstand of what faith is. our faith isnt here jump of this cliff, its we believe because we have an expericence with God of the bible. why then would he bother to write or have men write with such historical(unmatched) accuracy?

yes , some of its faith in that we dont know him fully but we do have the means to know. for the heaven declares the glory of the lord.. and seek him while he may found for he is never far from us.

can we touch God, no, can we know him yes. he does let us know who he is, and what he has done for us.

think the cosmological arguments. a design must have a designer.

 

[smaller]

i did, you claimed that jews, and muslims and christians all have access to same God but are blinded by satan. shall i get the posts for you to show this?

I already have the quotes, and they are not 'my' quotes, but citings from the scriptures. My bad???

do you deny that statemen that all jews whether in christ or not are gonna make it to heaven?

I posted this in another thread, but [to me] Paul states that without any doubt in Romans 11:25-32. Non acceptance of those statements does not a problem on my part make. I accept it as written. Bad guy me?

And already said that discussions of actually loving all of our neighbors as ourselves is not allowed here. I'll leave the why's up to you.

i recall that you did say that to me, and eslewhere in the generation of the figtree thread post number 74 thread you claimed this

1 John 4:7
King James Version (KJV)

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

I claimed? Is that not there in writing for any to read? I accept that many cannot accept it as written, and seek to impose limits upon same. I do not, and do not believe God is against those who love.

THAT is not the context of what you espouse ,

Not really sure that you are equipped to speak in my behalf, nor I for you. I base my comparisons on positional statements from the text, not trying to defeat any of the Words therein on any basis. You definitely do not understand my view that every Word of God applies to every person, both on the good and bad side of the ledgers, and why that is so.

for ones definition of God could very well be a tree and that would suffice. sorry. God judgems men on whether or not they accept christ.

There are numerous 'versions' of Jesus. I find it quite impossible to divide God from Love and therefore discount the 'many' versions of God in Christ.

not whether they love a close version of God(ie the jews with their tanakh and also the muslims with their so called claim to allah(God of the jews). the later doesnt even describe him the same the bible is his only word no the quran. one cant be saved by islam through the quran.

And I can not say that Gods Grace has been quarantined. Many believers expect unlimited Grace unto themselves and no Grace whatsoever to others. To me that is a somewhat sorry measure, personally speaking. There is no reward for me to impose such limits unless they are warranted in scriptures.

s