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Christmas not Christian

R

reznwerks

Guest
It looks like Christians want to have their cake and eat it too. They are making a big deal here and there about Christmas trees for Christmas when in fact the early Christians celebrated no such holiday and warned against it. After knowing the truth behind the holiday which most do isn't it a bit egotistical to claim that God will look the other way where they are concerned?
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/xmas.html
 
Because every year people continue to complain that these "trashy blashpemus liberals" are taking away christians rights to plaster God everywhere. and every year facts are broguth up, and debated, and the second christmas is over, no one cars until next year.
 
tradition

atonement said:
Why does it seem like every year a post like this comes around?
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Just trying to uphold the usual Christmas traditions.
 
peace4all said:
Because every year people continue to complain that these "trashy blasphemous liberals" are taking away Christians rights to plaster God everywhere. and every year facts are brought up, and debated, and the second Christmas is over, no one cars until next year.
Click to expand...
While you may be right about some Christians motives I don't believe you are right when it comes to this topic as stated. The question this thread poses is Christmas a Christian holiday or a man made holiday?

As I see it there are 2 questions that need to be answered from a Christian point of view.

1) Should we celebrate Christmas?
2) Is Christmas a Christian holiday?

Here is my take on these questions:

1) Should we celebrate Christmas?
I think the first thing we need to answer is what is Christmas now is all about. I don't think many would disagree that the feelings behind Christmas is one of love. Love for family, friends and even strangers. This seems to be the time of year that people will go out of their way to help others and promote holiday cheer. Could this be a bad thing even in Gods eyes.

2) Is Christmas a Christian holiday?
Short answer - no.
As Christians we tell people this is the day Christ was born (or when we chose to celebrate it). I may not celebrate my birthday on the exact day I was born but it is always done close to the real date. We don't know when Christ was born but we can narrow it down to a 12 month period :D In actuality we can rule out the winter months as well which means we are not even close to the right date by celebrating it at Christmas. As stated in the link Christmas was and is an attempt by good meaning but misguided people trying to convert pagans to Christianity by changing the name of a rose.

I have studied this in some depth and here is the conclusion I have come up with.
It is OK to celebrate Christmas as the real motive behind it is to promote good will and love toward others. There is nothing inherently evil (now) about the holiday and is unlikely to cause a brother or sister to stumble in their walk with Christ. What is wrong is the lies Christians promote about Christmas to make it a Christian holiday. We simply need to tell the truth that Christmas is a man made holiday to celebrate man. It was initially an alternative to pagan rituals much like Christians are now doing to Halloween.
 
There is a great deal of disinformation regarding this, and many other Christian traditions. The origins of Advent celebration were in the late second century, primarily in the West. This was celebrated at varrious times in the calendar year by region, and had nothing whatsoever to do with Saturnalia or Mithra.

These observances were not a celebration of Christ's "birthday," but of His coming, His advent. In the East, this was not a standard practice, for we focused on the Lord's Pascha (passover). But when we gathered at Nicea in 325 AD, it was agree that part of the cycle of feasts and fasts in the Church would include a Lenten observation of His Advent akin to the Lenten observation of His Passion. The fast and feast were fixed on November 15-December 25, with a period of feasting between December 25 and the day of His Theophany/Epiphany, January 6. These are the 'twelve days of Christmas' of which we sing. Twelve being, lest we forget, the number of tribes and apostles.

The intent of the feasts and fasts was to be a living, experiential reminder of the coming of Christ. This is essentially the sam principle in the Hebrew feasts. So why not observe them? Because they pointed to a present reality, the coming of Christ.

The Hebrew fasts are wonderful, but they only foretell His coming. The feasts and fasts of the Church tell of His coming, His death, His resurrection, His Church and the devoted martyrs and saints, and His coming return. This is one way that the Church watches and prays.

Those who do no wish to observe them should feel no compulsion to do so- nor any compulsion to think that they could instruct as as to the history and intent of the Church.
James
 
atonement said:
Why does it seem like every year a post like this comes around?
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Because it doesn't have a Christian root? There's nothing in the Bible about a fat man breaking into your house and giving gifts to your children. In fact, I'm sure that's generally referred to as breaking and entering with an associated pedophilia charge.

It's like Easter. There ain't nothing in there about a bunny that defecates chocolate eggs in out of the way areas, that you later eat.
 
OC,
While I have done a fair amount of research on the origins of Christmas I haven't run across anything like what you have stated. I like to be well rounded in the areas I study so I am interested in learning more about what you posted. Would you have any links that may provide me with more information on what you have said.
Thanks
 
NRoof said:
OC,
While I have done a fair amount of research on the origins of Christmas I haven't run across anything like what you have stated. I like to be well rounded in the areas I study so I am interested in learning more about what you posted. Would you have any links that may provide me with more information on what you have said.
Thanks
Click to expand...
I'm still looking for the source material that you have requested. Here is a source that refutes the pagan origins of Christmas, but attributes a later date than I have cited as the beginnings of same.
http://www.touchstonemag.com/docs/issue ... 0pg12.html
 
Besides Christmas, there are many pagan customs or "traditions of men" that crept into our churches. One excellent example is that many of our churches face East toward the sunrise (this gets into Easter as well). In spite of the warning in passages such as Ezekiel 8 about solar worship, I am surprised to hear the rationalizations for facing East such as "Christ will return from that side."

One of the funniest explanations I heard to justify eastward facing churches was that it faced toward Jerusalem! Actually, if one is from the Northeast United States as I am, Jerusalem is really more in the Northeast direction, virtually the same direction as London, England. So, I can only go for such an explanation if all our churches faced more towards the Northeast, unless everyone has a very bad sense of direction.

Now, I am not proposing to tear down all our churches and rebuilding them. I think the whole point is to realize how far off the track we got in even "everyday things" and start back onto the right track by questioning and becoming aware of the sources of the things we do.
 
Christmas is a holiday that was adapted by Christianity fromt he pagan holiday of Yule. Heres a link on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

You'll not that many symbols of Christmas have thier roots in Yule. Evergreen trees, holly, miseltoe, eating ham all have thier connection in neopagan traditions. These symbols and traditions endured because the early Church thought it would be easier to convert people if they were allowed to retain thier old traditions and holidays but with a Christian outlook. Many other holidays like Easter and Halloween have roots in various polythesistic religions.
 
Like none of you celebrate Christmas yeah right, what planet are you from hehe. Look rather you wanna debate if it's Christian or not, the true meaning of Christmas is to celebrate the birth of a virgin child. It would seem that even this Holiday is wraped around the delusion of Santa, etc etc. Anything to draw a child away from the true meaning of Christmas.

Sorry just my $0.02
Debate on-ward

-Atone
 
Ho! Ho! Ho!

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal TRUTH that sets us free. The bottom line on Christmas is that EVERYTHING about it is predicated on a lie. Believer's who insist on the celebration thereof cannot do so without perpetuating that lie. The scriptures are quite clear. All liars will have their place in the Lake of Fire.More specifically: Lie #1.Jesus was NOT born on Dec.25th. Although we cannot know the exact date it was most likely in late Sept. or early Oct. Lie #2.3 wise men did not present gifts to Jesus in a manger. Jesus was at LEAST 2 years old before these wise men laid eyes on him and the scriptures do not indicate that there were 3 of them, only that they presented 3 gifts. These gifts were not given as birthday or Christmas gifts but were presented to Christ as King which was the custom.Lie#3.Santa Claus is a myth and yet many parents insist on giving this mythical figure the attributes of a soverign God. Namely, the lie makes this mythical figure ominpotent, omniscient and omnipresent. Only the one true God whom i serve has these attributes. I could go on and on but i think you get the picture.God requires truth in the inward parts. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Anything less is a lie.
 
Then what is the secular populace celebrating?

I've asked this before.

If opposed to Christmas for christian reasons then what is being celebrated?
 
quid pro quo

what are the "christian reasons" for celebrating Christmas? give me scriptural evidence chapter and verse.
 
I celebrate Christmas for the birth of Christ. He's my Lord and Savior so I celebrate His coming whether the bible tells me to or not. He was born so I rejoice at that fact. Was He born on the 25th? Probably not but He was born anyway. If you can show me, through scripture since you're basing your argument on scripture, that He wasn't born then I'll stop celebrating His birth. Simple as that.

What are you celebrating?
 
PotLuck said:
Then what is the secular populace celebrating?

I've asked this before.

If opposed to Christmas for Christian reasons then what is being celebrated?
Click to expand...
For me it's no different than Thanksgiving. It's just a time for friends and family to get together and enjoy each others company.

If you are able to share the Gospel then so much the better. It is known that people (non-Christians) are more receptive at this time of year. That doesn't mean we should lie about what Christmas really is. We are commanded to tell the truth. The truth is we don't know when Christ was born. The truth is that most things we do at Christmas come from pagan rituals.

Throughout my Christian walk I have been all over the map with how I have celebrated Christmas.

My wife made a birthday cake for Jesus one year to help my kids understand what Christmas was all about. We still gave each other presents though which didn't seem right.

One year we took all the money we would have spent on each other and used it to buy things for people in need. This seemed better but something still didn't feel right.

During this time I did a fair amount of research into the origins of Christmas and I didn't like what I found. It went against everything I had been taught both from my parents and what I was taught at church. While it went against everything I knew it made sense to me and more importantly seemed right and true. To this day my wife doesn't want to hear about it but that is another story.

Some as OC has pointed out say Christmas is a Advent celebration which is a celebration of his return.

Bottom line for me is we should celebrate Jesus every day the same. We shouldn't go all out 1 day a year and coast the rest of the year (I'm not saying anyone does that). We should be just as eager to spread the Gospel on March 25 as we are on December 25 (I am guilty on this point so I am not pointing fingers).

My views are similar about Advent. We should be ready at all times for the return of Jesus. It shouldn't be more important one day over another.
 
NRoof said:
PotLuck said:
Then what is the secular populace celebrating?

I've asked this before.

If opposed to Christmas for Christian reasons then what is being celebrated?
Click to expand...
For me it's no different than Thanksgiving. It's just a time for friends and family to get together and enjoy each others company.

If you are able to share the Gospel then so much the better. It is known that people (non-Christians) are more receptive at this time of year. That doesn't mean we should lie about what Christmas really is. We are commanded to tell the truth. The truth is we don't know when Christ was born. The truth is that most things we do at Christmas come from pagan rituals.

Throughout my Christian walk I have been all over the map with how I have celebrated Christmas.

My wife made a birthday cake for Jesus one year to help my kids understand what Christmas was all about. We still gave each other presents though which didn't seem right.

One year we took all the money we would have spent on each other and used it to but things for people in need. This seemed better buy something still didn't feel right.

During this time I did a fair amount of research into the origins of Christmas and I didn't like what I found. It went against everything I had been taught both from my parents and what I was taught at church. While it went against everything I knew it made sense to me and more importantly seemed right and true. To this day my wife doesn't want to hear about it but that is another story.

Some as OC has pointed out say Christmas is a Advent celebration which is a celebration of his return.

Bottom line for me is we should celebrate Jesus every day the same. We shouldn't go all out 1 day a year and coast the rest of the year (I'm not saying anyone does that). We should be just as eager to spread the Gospel on March 25 as we are on December 25 (I am guilty on this point so I am not pointing fingers).

My views are similar about Advent. We should be ready at all times for the return of Jesus. It shouldn't be more important one day over another.
Click to expand...

Well said,

That is the best post on this subject I have read on the subject in these forums to date.

Thanks,

Robert
 
The Lord WANTS you to rejoice in His name. Sure, I rejoice every day in Him but His birth is worth at least some sort of heightened recognition I would think. Surely this is an event worth celebrating.

The Lord WANTS you to rejoice in His name.
There's is a lot of scripture to prove this out.

Exo 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
Exo 15:21 And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

Psa 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
Psa 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psa 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

2Sa 6:13 And it was so, that when they that bore the ark of the LORD had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings.
2Sa 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

Jer 31:13 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.
 
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