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Bible Study Christmas

for_his_glory said:
I don't remember what website I got this from as it was to long ago to remember. Just wanted to let you know it was not my work.

Jewish month
Begins the New moon of
1. Abib / Nisan - March/April Birth of John the Baptist 15 Nisan
2. Zif / Iyyar - April/May
3. Sivan - May/June - Conception of John the Baptist after 3rd Sabbath
4. Tammuz - June/July
5. Ab / Av - July/August
6. Elul - August/September
7. Ethanim / Tishri - September/October - Birth of Jesus 15 Tishri
8. Bul / Marheshvan / Heshvan - October/November
9. Chisleu / Chislev / Kislev - November/December Conception of Jesus 25 Kislev ?
10. Tebeth / Tevet - December/January
11. Shebat / Shevat - January/February
12. Adar - February/March

According to Luke Chapter One Jesus was conceived six months after the conception of John the Baptist and was born nine months later in the months of September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar.
King David on God's instructions (1 Chr 28:11-13) had divided the sons of Aaron into 24 groups (1 Chr 24:1-4), to setup a schedule by which the Temple of the Lord could be staffed with priests all year round in an orderly manner. After the 24 groups of priests were established, lots were drawn to determine the sequence in which each group would serve in the Temple. (1 Chr 24: 7-19). That sequence is as follows:
1 Chr 24:7 1. Jehoiarib 2. Jedaiah
1 Chr 24:8 3. Harim 4. Seorim
1 Chr 24:9 5. Malchijah 6. Mijamin
1 Chr 24:10 7. Hakkoz 8. Abijah
1 Chr 24:11 9. Jeshuah 10. Shecaniah
1 Chr 24:12 11. Eliashib 12. Jakim
1 Chr 24:13 13. Huppah 14. Jeshebeab
1 Chr 24:14 15. Bilgah 16. Immer
1 Chr 24:15 17. Hezir 18. Aphses
1 Chr 24:16 19. Pethahiah 20. Jehezekel
1 Chr 24:17 21. Jachim 22. Gamul
1 Chr 24:18 23. Delaiah 24. Maaziah

1 Chr 24:19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the LORD, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.
Now each one of the 24 "courses" of priests would begin and end their service in the Temple on the Sabbath, a tour of duty being for one week (2 Chr 23:8, 1 Chr 9:25). On three occasions during the year, all the men of Israel were required to travel to Jerusalem for festivals of the Lord, so on those occasions all the priests would be needed in the Temple to accommodate the crowds. Those three festivals were Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, and Tabernacles (Deut 16:16).

The Jewish calendar begins in the spring, during the month of Nisan, so the first "course" of priests, would be that of the family of Jehoiarib, who would serve for one week, Sabbath to Sabbath. The second week would then be the responsibility of the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the feast of Unleavened Bread, and all priests would be present for service. Then the schedule would resume with the third course of priests, the family of Harim. By this plan, when the 24th course was completed, the general cycle of courses would repeat. This schedule would cover 51 weeks or 357 days, enough for the lunar Jewish calendar (about 354 days). So, in a period of a year, each group of priests would serve in the Temple twice on their scheduled course, in addition to the 3 major festivals, for a total of about five weeks of duty.

The Conception of John the Baptist.
Back to Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, which is important to understand that Jesus was born September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar being conceived six months after John the Baptist.
Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived
Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).
Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.
Click to expand...

Yom Kippur...(I think that I'm having a cranial flatulation) was just celebrated a couple of weeks ago. The Jewish New Year. Meaning that this calendar is off.

Upon further review...
Civil New Year is in Tishri.

Link

But the Chronicles schedule was changed. And I have to adjust what was done with any schedule. The first service weeks on any schedule for service in the Temple (using the Aleph) is never listed. It isn't mentioned...but we know that it exists.
But the Levites said that the first of anything belongs to God. (Even the Aleph has no sound but will drastically change the meaning and pronunciation of a word).
So exactly how they covered this period is something of a mystery. But all schedules start with Beth (2).
Then on top of this...
Jesus was born in a year with 13 months.(if remembering the research correctly) (Not all years had 13 months...most had 12 with 28 days based upon the lunar cycle and a thing with the stars)

Where this is maddening trying to figure out a precise date... many records were lost with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
But what this means today is that Sunday is Levitically speaking actually Saturday. (Due to the astronomical calendar and the Lunar calendar.)

And in these passages it isn't clear as to which calendar (civil or Leverite) they are referring to. The exile in Babylon shifted everything. Even the names of the months got changed.

When speaking personally to Mike Schneider (Rabbi who has done extensive research into the Hebrew Calendar and written many books on the subject) was telling me about his frustrations in nailing down specific dates. (But don't start a discussion about Jesus with him)
So when dealing with specific dates pre-Babylon exile to Post Babylon exile and then once again post diaspora just about anything is possible. Which is why Saturday is Friday and Sunday is Shabbat. (And they do know but don't want to have the formal hearings to confirm it all)
 
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Hi JohnDB,

My source for the calendar is www.jewfaq.org
The rest of my post was from another site I never wrote down in my notes.

The calendar I posted is the Civil Equivalent with Nissan being March-April

The "first month" of the Jewish calendar is the month of Nissan, in the spring, when Passover occurs. However, the Jewish New Year is in Tishri, the seventh month, and that is when the year number is increased. This concept of different starting points for a year is not as strange as it might seem at first glance. The American "new year" starts in January, but the new "school year" starts in September, and many businesses have "fiscal years" that start at various times of the year. Similarly, the Jewish calendar has different starting points for different purposes.

The names of the months of the Jewish calendar were adopted during the time of Ezra, after the return from the Babylonian exile. The names are actually Babylonian month names, brought back to Israel by the returning exiles. Note that most of the Bible refers to months by number, not by name.
 
for_his_glory said:
Hi JohnDB,

My source for the calendar is www.jewfaq.org
The rest of my post was from another site I never wrote down in my notes.

The calendar I posted is the Civil Equivalent with Nissan being March-April

The "first month" of the Jewish calendar is the month of Nissan, in the spring, when Passover occurs. However, the Jewish New Year is in Tishri, the seventh month, and that is when the year number is increased. This concept of different starting points for a year is not as strange as it might seem at first glance. The American "new year" starts in January, but the new "school year" starts in September, and many businesses have "fiscal years" that start at various times of the year. Similarly, the Jewish calendar has different starting points for different purposes.

The names of the months of the Jewish calendar were adopted during the time of Ezra, after the return from the Babylonian exile. The names are actually Babylonian month names, brought back to Israel by the returning exiles. Note that most of the Bible refers to months by number, not by name.
Click to expand...
Right... which gets confusing when trying to figure out what calendar that they are using. So the first month could be the 7th.
 
And ONE other point to make.

If you base your assumptions upon the Gospel of Luke...
To Whom did Luke write his Gospel to?
Hint: It wasn't the Jews...
 
JohnDB said:
And ONE other point to make.

If you base your assumptions upon the Gospel of Luke...
To Whom did Luke write his Gospel to?
Hint: It wasn't the Jews...
Click to expand...
The Gospel of Luke was written primarily to the Greek, pointing out Christ's humanity as "The Son of Man", His Human/Divine nature. His genealogy given by Luke traces Him back to Adam, showing His concern for lost humanity, even as Matthew is written primarily to the Jew as, "King of Israel" as ".Son of David", His genealogy traces Him to King David, being born in Bethlehem (the city of David).
 
Douglas Summers said:
The Gospel of Luke was written primarily to the Greek, pointing out Christ's humanity as "The Son of Man", His Human/Divine nature. His genealogy given by Luke traces Him back to Adam, showing His concern for lost humanity, even as Matthew is written primarily to the Jew as, "King of Israel" as ".Son of David", His genealogy traces Him to King David, being born in Bethlehem (the city of David).
Click to expand...
And what calendar did the Greek/Romans use?
 
JohnDB said:
That Luke was Greek and his audience was Greek and that he used a calendar that they were familiar with. Not a calendar they were unfamiliar with.
Click to expand...
But many of the Greek were converts to Judaism as were a multitude of other countries (Acts 2:1-13) They all went by the Jewish calendar. They had to, because they kept the Jewish Feast days according to the Jewish calendar. He wrote as the Spirit lead him. All Scripture is God breathed. In the oldest manuscripts, Luke wrote "Passover" not Easter, which is well documented. All feast days in Luke's writings are according to Jewish calendar. Luke was either a Jew or a proselyte. No where does it prove Luke was a Gentile.
 
Douglas Summers said:
But many of the Greek were converts to Judaism as were a multitude of other countries (Acts 2:1-13) They all went by the Jewish calendar. They had to, because they kept the Jewish Feast days according to the Jewish calendar. He wrote as the Spirit lead him. All Scripture is God breathed. In the oldest manuscripts, Luke wrote "Passover" not Easter, which is well documented. All feast days in Luke's writings are according to Jewish calendar. Luke was either a Jew or a proselyte. No where does it prove Luke was a Gentile.
Click to expand...
I can say Chinese New Year but that doesn't have any meaning for me except that it is a Chinese custom. Same as Luke mentioning Passover. Just like American Buddhist do not adopt the Chinese calendar not do we Christians use the Jewish Levitical nor Jewish Civil calendar.
And I'm searching for a source that claims that Luke was Jewish and can't find a one. I've found dozens that says he was Greek/Roman writing to Greek/Romans. Can you please provide one that says Luke was Jewish?
Or possibly a source that shows where Paul or others promoted following the Jewish feast days and festivals?
 
I'M Grams said:
I can not remember were the verses were at but year ago our preacher mentioned that he does not believe that

Dec. is the time of JESUS birth............. I think he was saying may be in Sept.

any one have an idea on that ?
Click to expand...

The shepherds were still in their fields at night with their flocks when the heavenly host appeared which suggests it wasn't winter or too cold weather set in yet .. Others calculate Zechariah's time of duty in the temple and John's birth as somewhat a time table according to Jesus birth .. I think also leads to the fall of the year .. It's been a while since I went over it .. But anytime we gather in Jesus name to adore and worship is the right time, Dec 25 works too.. Of course Jesus was crucified Passover or in preparation of ..
for_his_glory said:
I don't remember what website I got this from as it was to long ago to remember. Just wanted to let you know it was not my work.

Jewish month
Begins the New moon of
1. Abib / Nisan - March/April Birth of John the Baptist 15 Nisan
2. Zif / Iyyar - April/May
3. Sivan - May/June - Conception of John the Baptist after 3rd Sabbath
4. Tammuz - June/July
5. Ab / Av - July/August
6. Elul - August/September
7. Ethanim / Tishri - September/October - Birth of Jesus 15 Tishri
8. Bul / Marheshvan / Heshvan - October/November
9. Chisleu / Chislev / Kislev - November/December Conception of Jesus 25 Kislev ?
10. Tebeth / Tevet - December/January
11. Shebat / Shevat - January/February
12. Adar - February/March

According to Luke Chapter One Jesus was conceived six months after the conception of John the Baptist and was born nine months later in the months of September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar.
King David on God's instructions (1 Chr 28:11-13) had divided the sons of Aaron into 24 groups (1 Chr 24:1-4), to setup a schedule by which the Temple of the Lord could be staffed with priests all year round in an orderly manner. After the 24 groups of priests were established, lots were drawn to determine the sequence in which each group would serve in the Temple. (1 Chr 24: 7-19). That sequence is as follows:
1 Chr 24:7 1. Jehoiarib 2. Jedaiah
1 Chr 24:8 3. Harim 4. Seorim
1 Chr 24:9 5. Malchijah 6. Mijamin
1 Chr 24:10 7. Hakkoz 8. Abijah
1 Chr 24:11 9. Jeshuah 10. Shecaniah
1 Chr 24:12 11. Eliashib 12. Jakim
1 Chr 24:13 13. Huppah 14. Jeshebeab
1 Chr 24:14 15. Bilgah 16. Immer
1 Chr 24:15 17. Hezir 18. Aphses
1 Chr 24:16 19. Pethahiah 20. Jehezekel
1 Chr 24:17 21. Jachim 22. Gamul
1 Chr 24:18 23. Delaiah 24. Maaziah

1 Chr 24:19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the LORD, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.
Now each one of the 24 "courses" of priests would begin and end their service in the Temple on the Sabbath, a tour of duty being for one week (2 Chr 23:8, 1 Chr 9:25). On three occasions during the year, all the men of Israel were required to travel to Jerusalem for festivals of the Lord, so on those occasions all the priests would be needed in the Temple to accommodate the crowds. Those three festivals were Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, and Tabernacles (Deut 16:16).

The Jewish calendar begins in the spring, during the month of Nisan, so the first "course" of priests, would be that of the family of Jehoiarib, who would serve for one week, Sabbath to Sabbath. The second week would then be the responsibility of the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the feast of Unleavened Bread, and all priests would be present for service. Then the schedule would resume with the third course of priests, the family of Harim. By this plan, when the 24th course was completed, the general cycle of courses would repeat. This schedule would cover 51 weeks or 357 days, enough for the lunar Jewish calendar (about 354 days). So, in a period of a year, each group of priests would serve in the Temple twice on their scheduled course, in addition to the 3 major festivals, for a total of about five weeks of duty.

The Conception of John the Baptist.
Back to Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, which is important to understand that Jesus was born September/October according to the Lunar Jewish Calendar being conceived six months after John the Baptist.
Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived
Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).
Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.
Click to expand...

Good stuff FHG
 
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We can go back and forth forever on these issues as interesting as they are, as no matter what a certain day may represent in a pagan or Christian world we as a child of God celebrate and worship Christ every day of the year. :sohappy
 
brujaq said:
The shepherds were still in their fields at night with their flocks when the heavenly host appeared which suggests it wasn't winter or too cold weather set in yet .. Others calculate Zechariah's time of duty in the temple and John's birth as somewhat a time table according to Jesus birth .. I think also leads to the fall of the year .. It's been a while since I went over it .. But anytime we gather in Jesus name to adore and worship is the right time, Dec 25 works too.. Of course Jesus was crucified Passover ..


Good stuff FHG
Click to expand...
Summers are too dry to set flocks to pasture. However there are rains and heavy heavy dews in the fall/winter with warm enough temps for things to grow. This is below Sea Level off the Mediteranian (my spelling sucks) and American climate doesn't apply. It does somewhat apply at the higher elevations as Mt Hermon regularly has snow. But Bethlehem in Judea is farther south and very low in elevation.

I highly recommend looking at an almanac for Israel.
 
for_his_glory said:
We can go back and forth forever on these issues as interesting as they are, as no matter what a certain day may represent in a pagan or Christian world we as a child of God celebrate and worship Christ every day of the year. :sohappy
Click to expand...
Of course you are right.
And I agree with you on this.
 
JohnDB said:
I can say Chinese New Year but that doesn't have any meaning for me except that it is a Chinese custom. Same as Luke mentioning Passover. Just like American Buddhist do not adopt the Chinese calendar not do we Christians use the Jewish Levitical nor Jewish Civil calendar.
And I'm searching for a source that claims that Luke was Jewish and can't find a one. I've found dozens that says he was Greek/Roman writing to Greek/Romans. Can you please provide one that says Luke was Jewish?
Or possibly a source that shows where Paul or others promoted following the Jewish feast days and festivals?
Click to expand...
I can't prove that he was Jewish, just like you can't prove he was a Gentile. But to be within the close circle of friends with the Apostles and and Mary would make him either a proselyte or Jewish. The Gentile alone was never in the inner circle. He is called beloved (Col. 4:14).
 
Douglas Summers said:
I can't prove that he was Jewish, just like you can't prove he was a Gentile. But to be within the close circle of friends with the Apostles and and Mary would make him either a proselyte or Jewish. The Gentile alone was never in the inner circle. He is called beloved (Col. 4:14).

Click to expand...
When looking at research and papers like these...
Look at the sources.
Look at the sole conclusions rendered from true facts. Many of these papers would be rejected out of hand due to non-controversial facts by the Early Writing Church Fathers. (They argued a lot about theological positions, mostly millennial reign.) But some things said as "side information" wasn't really ever contested.

Tradition holds that Luke was a doctor/learned man of Greek/Roman descent who came from Southern Asia (Turkey) and was commissioned to write (or thought it would sell) about Jesus.
News about Jesus would have easily made it to Luke's home. Especially since Jesus was often resting in the Tetriarch Phillip's territory. (And Herod wanted to meet Jesus...who didn't want to meet Herod)

Some have argued that the "Greeks" who wanted to meet Jesus shortly before his crucifixion included Luke. Just as the man running naked through the streets in Mark was likely Mark himself.

Also...
Definitive conclusions are not usually done by anthropologist or archeologist. Especially as thin as proof as some of these writers are using.

Especially the one claiming that Luke wrote Hebrews. :nono

There's a ton of stuff out there written by guys who appear to have pedigrees. But then upon scrutiny we learn all kinds of not so good stuff about their work and sources and conclusions.
It takes a lot of time to go through this stuff. When the traditional and boring truths are often the real truth all along.
 
JohnDB said:
Also...
Definitive conclusions are not usually done by anthropologist or archeologist. Especially as thin as proof as some of these writers are using.

Especially the one claiming that Luke wrote Hebrews. :nono
Click to expand...

I have never felt that Paul wrote Hebrews (like it matters what I feel) a buddy believes it was Bartholomew, and he gave his reasons which were good at the time. I can't remember what he said about it now, it's been a few years.
But my take is, we know it was inspired as the rest were, so I leave it at that, you bring interesting points though.
 
JohnDB said:
When the traditional and boring truths are often the real truth all along.
Click to expand...
Here is the real truth DB. The body of Christ is being kicked to the curb by heretics, religious bigots, cults, universities, and the Government. No one wants to listen to SOUND (the truth) doctrine (as commissioned to the Apostles by Christ) (John 17:14-23) and the converts. Christ said this would happen (2 Tim. 4:1-7). Here is the Gospel: The kingdom and Jesus Christ, and in between that, the gospel has been picked to pieces, adding and subtracting their own doctrines. The only martyrs you hear defending the Gospel are in foreign countries, and yet, our country has become a wild tree for every unclean bird to rest in it's branches. What that means is, the gospel of Jesus Christ that started with simple faith (mustard seed) has grown in to a wild tree so that the unclean can enter the church and not fear to cease from sin, even to the point of bringing sin into the visible church as normal behavior. There WILL be a judgement! But they fear it not!
REPORT: President Trump declares religious freedom in the USA. That the Church and the family values in our country make a great society. The government is not allowed to target religious organizations. And we will say Merry Christmas. For we do not worship the Government, but we worship God. 9:45 a.m. 10/13/20017. We will defend our faith and protect our nation.
 
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Soul man said:
I have never felt that Paul wrote Hebrews (like it matters what I feel) a buddy believes it was Bartholomew, and he gave his reasons which were good at the time. I can't remember what he said about it now, it's been a few years.
But my take is, we know it was inspired as the rest were, so I leave it at that, you bring interesting points though.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know the proof he is speaking of...it was on the header of an old manuscript... almost burned by a young apprentice. And I keep forgetting if it was Barnabas or Bartholomew.
 
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