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Christ's Saving Death !

  • Thread starter Thread starter savedbygrace57
  • Start date Start date
grazer

I've asked a question about what you've put to help my understanding.
Click to expand...

First you must tell me what you understand me to be saying ! Break down each point that I have made as you understand it. If you cannot do that, then its no purpose for you to even respond to this thread !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
grazer



First you must tell me what you understand me to be saying ! Break down each point that I have made as you understand it. If you cannot do that, then its no purpose for you to even respond to this thread !
Click to expand...

I have no need to break down each individual point to ask a fairly simple question of clarification. My question is self explanatory.

As far as I can tell, you've done a keyword search in Biblegateway and strung the results together.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
grazer

I have no need to break down each individual point to ask a fairly simple
question of clarification.
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Yes you do. I have put work into making my posts, and you are not going to evade my points without putting work into it also. So either you explain what I said, that way you clearly have shown you seen what and why i stated what i stated, then from there you make your rebuttal, and then I will take questions, but not until then, for thats nothing but you being evasive !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
grazer



Yes you do. I have put work into making my posts, and you are not going to evade my points without putting work into it also. So either you explain what I said, that way you clearly have shown you seen what and why i stated what i stated, then from there you make your rebuttal, and then I will take questions, but not until then, for thats nothing but you being evasive !
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So I have to explain what your points before you'll clarify a point? Interesting logic

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Um, do you understand the points I made in the OP ? Please explain what they are, whether you agree with them or not.
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Unfair. You didn't post a question in the OP. You simply laid out your points. You didn't lay it all out and then ask for proof of anyone's understanding. You just put it there. The others are just asking for clarification, it's a little rude to evade their questions and repeatedly ask that they answer a question that you never initially asked. In my opinion the only evasive one is you.
 
grazer

So I have to explain what your points before you'll clarify a point?
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yes, that way your question will not be a diversion from what I have already stated !

if you cannot debate what I have stated, then you have no ground to question what I have stated. Its important that you show that you know why I stated my points, you can still disagree with them. But its not fair for me to put in work on a point, then you just create more questions for me to put in more work without you doing none. I am not with that.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
grazer



yes, that way your question will not be a diversion from what I have already stated !

if you cannot debate what I have stated, then you have no ground to question what I have stated. Its important that you show that you know why I stated my points, you can still disagree with them. But its not fair for me to put in work on a point, then you just create more questions for me to put in more work without you doing none. I am not with that.
Click to expand...

I have asked one question as a point of clarification, that's all I've done. Once I have that clarification then I can start with the rest but I cannot proceed without the answer.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Grazer said:
I have asked one question as a point of clarification, that's all I've done. Once I have that clarification then I can start with the rest but I cannot proceed without the answer.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

If you do not do as i asked, you will be ignored !
 
Grazer said:
Why won't you just answer my one question so we can proceed with the debate? I'm not being unreasonable

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Dont worry grazer your really better off not to know? because according to SBG57, anyone who believes, is trying to earn salvation by works?:o

Yep, your much better off not to even "pick up" a bible, or read it, or believe it!

All works according to our friend SBG57?:wave
 
Grazer said:
Why won't you just answer my one question so we can proceed with the debate? I'm not being unreasonable

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
edited
 
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We shall be saved by His Life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

To be saved by His Life is the same as being saved by His Death, because Life comes from His Death. For He was that corn of wheat that fell into the ground and died, so that fruit or life would come out of Death Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Fruit here means life, offspring, progeny, and even converts

anything produced or accruing; product, result, or effect;

Jn 4:36 speaks of converts as being fruit ! Also Rom 1:13

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Phil 1:22

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Well, Spiritual living Converts is the fruit of Christ's Death which was His Labor as indicated

Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

That word travail is translated labor 25 times Ecclesiastes 2:10 !

Now, as a Result of His Meritorious Death before the law and Justice of God in the stead of all those He died for, namely the Church of God, the Second or Last Adam was made a quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45, to quicken or give life to the Church of God which died in Adam the First !

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The word quickening here is the greek word zōopoieō and means:


to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

b) to restore to life

c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing

As the First Adam was made a Living Soul, the Last Adam upon His Resurrection was made a Life giving Spirit unto all for whom He Represented, which were all that had been Reconciled by His Death, and now, being reconciled, they shall be in addition and consequence saved by His Life, that is they will be caused to live Spiritually with New Spiritual Life ! This is the Fruit of His Saving Death Jn 12:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This is a indictment against all the false teachers and their followers that testify that Christ's Death in and of itself does not Save and or is Worthless !
 
We shall be saved by His Life ! Pt 2

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now who are the we here that unquestionably shall be saved by His Life ? Paul here is speaking in behalf of all whom had been reconciled to God by His Christ's Death !

They all shall be also Saved by His Life. That is through Resurrection, His Resurrection is His and their Life ! Jn 11:25

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Now understand, through Resurrection, Christ,the last Adam becomes a Life giving Spirit, which is why #1 all those whom were legally reconciled to God by His Death, even while they were being enemies, dead in sin, yet still being reconciled, they shall be saved [made alive converted] by His Life !

That life they shall be saved by is that why by His Resurrection He was constituted or made a Life Giving Spirit; and #2 That is what peter means when He writes to believers in 1 Pet 1:3 that they were begotten again to a lively hope BY the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, for that also looks to Christ as the Last Adam, by His Resurrection, He is a Life Giving Spirit, which results in them being born again !

Let me show you how this is True from scripture. The Last Adam is a Life giving Spirit. The word for quickening in 1 Cor 15:45

zōopoieō means:


to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

b) to restore to life

c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

The main Ideal here is that He gives a New Life, a Spiritual Life !

Now lets look at 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Peter says that we were begotten again, How ? BY THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD !!

Now, being begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

The New Birth comes as a Result of Christ[Last Adam] by His Resurrection being made a Life Giving Spirit, and that New Birth is the Life given from Christ's Life, meaning, the promise of shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10b comes to past for each person that had been reconciled to God by His Death !

You see, His Death, which did legally reconcile them to God, did mark them out as to ones that should be saved by His Life, so that Christ's Death ensured that all for whom He died and reconciled to God while they were still unbelievers and enemies, that they shall be saved, made alive Spiritually with New Life, by His Resurrection from the Dead !

Now, if any for whom Christ died, and reconciled to God by His Death even while they were enemies, are not in their lifetime ,made alive by His Life,as He is the Risen Last Adam, then scripture testimony has lied, which means God has lied.

And all you who say that everyone for whom Christ died shall not be saved by His Life, you are all liars and you call God a Liar ! The same is true of all who say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save anyone or that it being alone is worthless, you also are liars !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Now, if any for whom Christ died, and reconciled to God by His Death even while they were enemies, are not in their lifetime ,made alive by His Life,as He is the Risen Last Adam, then scripture testimony has lied, which means God has lied.

And all you who say that everyone for whom Christ died shall not be saved by His Life, you are all liars and you call God a Liar ! The same is true of all who say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save anyone or that it being alone is worthless, you also are liars !
Click to expand...

So then do you believe Osama bin Laden is in heaven?

"Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. (Matthew 10:32, 33 NIV)

Was Jesus wrong?

FYI: words like "liars" and overuse of the exclamation point turn a friendly discussion into an aggressive discussion. If continued discussion of a topic that you started gets you that worked up, you might want to unplug for a bit and take a walk. We are all brothers/sisters in Christ, we can be cool with each other.
 
bf

So then do you believe Osama bin Laden is in heaven?
Click to expand...

Rabbit trail. Do you understand the points I have been making in this thread ? Please begin with the OP and explain the points I have made, thanks !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Rabbit trail. Do you understand the points I have been making in this thread ? Please begin with the OP and explain the points I have made, thanks !
Click to expand...


It appears your points are that through Christ's death many are saved and made righteous. You highlight the word "many" many times. Many are made righteous through Christ's sacrifice and the righteous will shine in the kingdom of heaven. If I am wrong, please explain further.

Now, I feel I have satisfied your demand, so please be so gracious as to respond to mine. You seem to have removed faith from the equation entirely. If not for faith, then what qualifies someone to be a part of the "many"?
 
bfn

It appears your points are that through Christ's death many are saved and
made righteous.
Click to expand...

edited
 
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