Church offers to refund tithes

[for_his_glory]

Tithing has never been taught to be money in the scriptures. Tithing has put people under bondage and a lot of people need to be set free from the bondage law of 10%. Most people cannot afford to give 10% of their paycheck. They would not have time to count out 10% of all their perishable and nonperishable food items and bring them into Gods storehouse. The laws given to Moses in Leviticus 27 required all this. The storehouses that God was talking about was storing up food to feed the priest and scribes in the temple so they could be about those things of the Lord and not have to worry about what they should eat or how to provide food for themselves.

You can give 10% when you know the truth. When you do not know the truth and you are tithing because you are told to tithe this is called tithing under the Old Testament law. God does not honor this today. Just because we do not know the truth, this does not change God's word. We have all tithed. To this day has anybody ever showed you in the Bible where tithing is money? You have just taken mans word for it all these years.

The God I serve and read about in the Bible is not a God that would expect you to give the babies milk money to him. He would not expect your family to go without twenty dollars worth of food so you can give the last 20 to the church. Even the women with the two mites gave her last from the heart and not because she had to, but because she wanted to. If tithing meant money in today's world we would need ten or twelve banks just to hold our money. See, the over abundance is not happening. Tithing is nothing more than good intentions and good intentions do not get you your blessings. The only thing that is going to set you free is the truth of the word of God. Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought to have been done and not to leave the other undone. See, the hypocrites do these things for show, but they do not give out of love. They give because they were told to do so.

 

[Deborah13]

Tithing has never been taught to be money in the scriptures. Tithing has put people under bondage and a lot of people need to be set free from the bondage law of 10%. Most people cannot afford to give 10% of their paycheck. They would not have time to count out 10% of all their perishable and nonperishable food items and bring them into Gods storehouse. The laws given to Moses in Leviticus 27 required all this. The storehouses that God was talking about was storing up food to feed the priest and scribes in the temple so they could be about those things of the Lord and not have to worry about what they should eat or how to provide food for themselves.

You can give 10% when you know the truth. When you do not know the truth and you are tithing because you are told to tithe this is called tithing under the Old Testament law. God does not honor this today. Just because we do not know the truth, this does not change God's word. We have all tithed. To this day has anybody ever showed you in the Bible where tithing is money? You have just taken mans word for it all these years.

The God I serve and read about in the Bible is not a God that would expect you to give the babies milk money to him. He would not expect your family to go without twenty dollars worth of food so you can give the last 20 to the church. Even the women with the two mites gave her last from the heart and not because she had to, but because she wanted to. If tithing meant money in today's world we would need ten or twelve banks just to hold our money. See, the over abundance is not happening. Tithing is nothing more than good intentions and good intentions do not get you your blessings. The only thing that is going to set you free is the truth of the word of God. Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought to have been done and not to leave the other undone. See, the hypocrites do these things for show, but they do not give out of love. They give because they were told to do so.

The way tithing is taught by many isn't even good intentions. It creates a mentality of greed. Give to get a 100 fold. Preachers are afraid to teach give by grace because they don't trust God to impress people's hearts to give. They lack the very faith that they expect the tither to have. Give and you will see that God will provide you with food old woman but they don't have the same faith.
I heard a preacher actually start ranting on "Ask the Pastor". People must have faith that God will get their bills paid. They must tithe first because the Church has bills to pay. He was blind to his own hypocrisy.

 

[TOG]

Here are a few facts about tithes.

1. The tithe was part of the law. If the law is not binding for Gentile Christians, then neither is the tithe.
2. The tithe was part of the sacrificial system. If the sacrificial system has been done away with, then so has the tithe.
3. The tithe was always agricultural products. The only case where money was involved was if someone had such a large flock, herd or harvest that he couldn't bring the entire tithe to Jerusalem. In that case, he was allowed to convert it into money, go to Jerusalem and buy food and drink for the money. The tithe only applied to farmers. Saying that bank tellers, gas station attendants, bus drivers and businessmen today are required to tithe is completely unbiblical. They wouldn't even have been required to tithe if they had been ancient Israelites.
   
4. The priests and Levites who received the tithes from the people were required to give a tithe to the poor. How many churches today give 10% of their income to the needy?

The TOG

 

[WIP]

Was this about tithing?

Mark 44:
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

 

[Deborah13]

Was this about tithing?

Mark 44:
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

No. The tithe was never money, the law makes that very clear and the poor didn't have anything to tithe.
Even the man who had sheep was not allowed to tithe unless he owned more than 9 or 10, I don't remember which.

This scripture doesn't mention tithe. I believe it was talking about offerings. This widow was giving an offering from her heart not something that was required of her.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here are a few facts about tithes.

1. The tithe was part of the law. If the law is not binding for Gentile Christians, then neither is the tithe.
2. The tithe was part of the sacrificial system. If the sacrificial system has been done away with, then so has the tithe.
3. The tithe was always agricultural products. The only case where money was involved was if someone had such a large flock, herd or harvest that he couldn't bring the entire tithe to Jerusalem. In that case, he was allowed to convert it into money, go to Jerusalem and buy food and drink for the money. The tithe only applied to farmers. Saying that bank tellers, gas station attendants, bus drivers and businessmen today are required to tithe is completely unbiblical. They wouldn't even have been required to tithe if they had been ancient Israelites.
   
4. The priests and Levites who received the tithes from the people were required to give a tithe to the poor. How many churches today give 10% of their income to the needy?

The TOG

This is interesting.
Where in Scripture does it say the priests and Levites were required to give a tithe to the poor?

 

[Obadiah]

I think a lot of people have been misled by some of these churches and their teachers regarding tithes and offerings. I've always believed the tithe of the Old Testament and offerings were to be given to God because they were His to begin with, and the church or the priesthood was to use those for it's ministry whether that be feeding the priests, feeding the poor, paying the bills, or whatever. I don't think the idea of buying blessings by giving money to the church (which is what this kind of thing in the OP amounts to) is at all what God intended. This is what leads to the attitude of "I give money to your church (or mission, Christian forum, whatever) so you owe me special consideration now." That just doesn't seem to be what God intended.

 

[Deborah13]

This is interesting.
Where in Scripture does it say the priests and Levites were required to give a tithe to the poor?

This doesn't answer your question but does talk about the tithe for the poor.

TITHE – ...and would give Him a tenth of everything he possessed (ib. xxviii. 20-22). Later the Mosaic law made the tithe obligatory upon the Israelites. The tithe, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of ...the tree, belonged to Yhwh and consequently was holy. It was redeemable by "adding thereto the fifth part thereof." The tithe of cattle, however, was not redeemable; and if one beast was exchanged for ...another both became holy unto the Lord. The method of levying the tithe of cattle is indicated: they were counted singly; and every tenth one that passed under the rod became the tithe animal (Lev. xxvii. 30-33).
MA'ASEROT – ...to the tithe called "ma'aser sheni," which the owner must consume at Jerusalem (Deut. xiv. 22 et seq.), and to the triennial poor man's tithe (Deut. xiv. 28 et seq., xxvi. 12 et seq.
DEMAI – ...ma'aser" (tithe) for the Levites; and the latter gave the tenth part of the tithe to the priests as "terumat ma'aser" (heave-offering; ib. 26). In addition, a second tithe had to be separated from the produce in the ...first, second, fourth, and fifth years of the year-week. This tithe had to be taken to Jerusalem and consumed there, in accordance with certain regulations; while in the third and sixth years it was given to the ...poor. In the former case it was called "ma'aser sheni" (second tithe); in the latter "ma'aser 'ani" (the tithe for the poor). The produce of the seventh year was free from all these dues.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/search?utf8=✓&keywords=tithe&commit=search

The seventh year the fields were not planted they were rested. But fruit trees, vines, cattle still produced. But there was no tithes in the seventh year at all.

 

[TOG]

This is interesting.
Where in Scripture does it say the priests and Levites were required to give a tithe to the poor?

I didn't remember the exact verse, so I had to look it up. It appears I didn't remember exactly correctly.

Moreover, you shall speak and say to the Levites, ‘When you take from the people of Israel the tithe that I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall present a contribution from it to the Lord, a tithe of the tithe. (Num. 18:26 ESV)
​

It wasn't to the poor, but the priest that the Levites were supposed to give a tithe.

The TOG​

 

[Edward]

Tithing has never been taught to be money in the scriptures. Tithing has put people under bondage and a lot of people need to be set free from the bondage law of 10%. Most people cannot afford to give 10% of their paycheck. They would not have time to count out 10% of all their perishable and nonperishable food items and bring them into Gods storehouse. The laws given to Moses in Leviticus 27 required all this. The storehouses that God was talking about was storing up food to feed the priest and scribes in the temple so they could be about those things of the Lord and not have to worry about what they should eat or how to provide food for themselves.

You can give 10% when you know the truth. When you do not know the truth and you are tithing because you are told to tithe this is called tithing under the Old Testament law. God does not honor this today. Just because we do not know the truth, this does not change God's word. We have all tithed. To this day has anybody ever showed you in the Bible where tithing is money? You have just taken mans word for it all these years.

The God I serve and read about in the Bible is not a God that would expect you to give the babies milk money to him. He would not expect your family to go without twenty dollars worth of food so you can give the last 20 to the church. Even the women with the two mites gave her last from the heart and not because she had to, but because she wanted to. If tithing meant money in today's world we would need ten or twelve banks just to hold our money. See, the over abundance is not happening. Tithing is nothing more than good intentions and good intentions do not get you your blessings. The only thing that is going to set you free is the truth of the word of God. Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith; these ought to have been done and not to leave the other undone. See, the hypocrites do these things for show, but they do not give out of love. They give because they were told to do so.

that's interesting for_his_glory. I find myself agreeing with much of your post, and disagreeing whit a little. I think that tithing is and never was money, however, probably 97% of the world then were farmers, today, what perhaps 1 or 2%? So while tithing was not about money, but because of the changing times and less farmers and more supermarkets, i think that one could tithe with money, for the church (or pastor etc.) could use the money to buy food for themselves or for the needy. In order to do this, one would have to make adjustments because of the times and so forth. For instance what about first fruits, but no farming for us? I figured that if one were to tithe with money, and attempt first fruits, that it would be reasonable to consider gross vs net, with gross being first fruits. (I have been self-employed for over 20 years+, so this was a natural understanding and thought process that goes along with that). I have tithed, and with money of course. not because i was told to, but because i wanted to, that does make all the difference in the world! One point that I disagree with you on would be, that God does not honor this today. He most certainly does, and has.

I tithed with money with the right heart. God does not change, and will always honor His promises. Scripture does say that, one can test God in this, and so I did. Quite a few times, ok? I can unequivocally testify to the persinal experience that God most certainly did pour out blessings upon me, and in such a way that it left no room for doubt about it within myself. I actually tithed my bill money before, and the bill did get paid and rather quickly might I add. I even know of a brother who was in a very tight financial condition, and received through work, barely enough to pay the bill before the late date added fee that they put on. he had like two more days or something like that. Then, that night after having earned his bill money, he received a word from the Lord to give it all to...someone, I forget who, someone in need. Now this made him a little anxious about the situation, so he went to talk it over with his wife. She...did not want him to give the bill money away, but he had received instruction to do so. (This was not an actual tithing thing, it did not go to the church, but someone in need). Because the word came from the Lord, he did go against his wife's wishes to pay the darn bill before it's too late as she said. So he did, that night and gave away every dollar of the money. The next day, he received an out of the blue unexpected windfall influx. It was very much more than just enough to pay the bill before the late date. Coincidence? I doubt it. but you know how the Lord works, no proof, just knowing. I believe it.

We do not have an obligation to tithe. But if we choose to, then the Lord will honor his promise and open His storehouse of blessings upon you. We could discuss all of the finer points of tithing, food, Old testament, and all of that until we're blue in the face and it would not matter one iota because...as is shown in scripture, in a few places, that God is not a stickler about details (except obedience of course!), but so it's not food, so it's not for the priest...so what. It's what's in the heart that matters. feed my sheep, feed the needy, help the poor. Help the body, we are one body. jesus healed on the Sabbath, against the Law! But the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath, so it's ok. King David and his men went into the temple and ate the shewbread, which is only for the priests. Those were not sins. they were hungry and had need. The man needed healing. Jesus didn't say, oh sorry, come back on monday or whatever, lol. Same thing with tithing, it's what's in the heart.

We can't afford to tithe? Can we afford not to? lol. We are not here for ourselves. We belong to God and our life is His. he says, freely you have been given, freely give. Love your neighbor as yourself. We are not to live for ourselves, but for the body, and for Christ. Jesus says, what i do you do. Jesus is a blessing for us. We are a blessing for others, in love.
Am I making sense?

i think it's pretty cool that the church offers to repay tithes if one is not blessed. I don't think it should be an obligation for them to have to do that, and i do think it is an expression of their faith. My church does not pass a collection plate. I have NEVER heard them ask for money in any way form or fashion. They do have multiple offering boxes set up all around so that people can give if they want to. They also have a few big boxes for donated items, again never asked for, just there. My church probably has the biggest outreach into the community than any other local church. They help many many people. They have helped me even. They had me sit down with an elder and he asked me what my circumstances and needs were, I did, so they helped me. just like that, no red tape.

Another church that I sat in on a few services before and they made such a big (bragging) deal and point about how many people they help and so forth. I had a big need at the time, so I decided to ask for help. i did. I was given an application for help which had only one question about my needs on it (IIRC), it had almost two full pages of questions like, How much did I give in their collection plate today, the last week, month, year, since coming to the church for the first time. How much have I tithed with them, how much do I expect to tithe with them in the next year, and all sorts of dumb questions like that. I knew immediately that they wouldn't help me, but i was there and wanted to see so filled it out. They wouldn't help me, i got turned down (because I hadn't given them enough already!) I wanted to see how deep this went so arranged a meeting with the same pastor that made a 30 minute bragging session about how many people they help to talk it over with him and further explain my needs. you know what he told me? Am I a widow or an orphan and referred me to a scripture in either 1 or 2 Timothy (i think) about helping widows or orphans. Anhd since I am not a widow or an orphan that he couldn't help me. My jaw almost hit the floor! This man is so far away from brotherly love, and a well known pastor of a huge church that it was hard for me to believe that I was hearing what I was hearing. Wow. Just wow. This same church has a pre sermon, mini sermon every week, where a man, elder, whatever comes to the pulpit and preaches about how we are obligated to tithe, and how we are to love God so much that we should have the heart of giving even to the extent of giving too much because it will increase your faith in God or something like that.Then they pass the plate and after that, the pastors sermon. I'm not exaggerating this.

In a practical manner of speaking, there really is no tithe anymore. It's all offering. but churches use tithing as a way to inflict obligation upon it's members to give more. God will honor the money tithe, if one has tithing upon his heart when he does it. I would not expect god to honor the tithe if one were to tithe in effort to show a profit though. :shock

Bless you sister.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I didn't remember the exact verse, so I had to look it up. It appears I didn't remember exactly correctly.

Moreover, you shall speak and say to the Levites, ‘When you take from the people of Israel the tithe that I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall present a contribution from it to the Lord, a tithe of the tithe. (Num. 18:26 ESV)
​

It wasn't to the poor, but the priest that the Levites were supposed to give a tithe.

The TOG​

Thank you TOG.
I will not forget it it.

 

[WIP]

No. The tithe was never money, the law makes that very clear and the poor didn't have anything to tithe.
Even the man who had sheep was not allowed to tithe unless he owned more than 9 or 10, I don't remember which.

This scripture doesn't mention tithe. I believe it was talking about offerings. This widow was giving an offering from her heart not something that was required of her.

Hmmm. How does tithing differ from offering?

 

[for_his_glory]

that's interesting for_his_glory. I find myself agreeing with much of your post, and disagreeing whit a little. I think that tithing is and never was money, however, probably 97% of the world then were farmers, today, what perhaps 1 or 2%? So while tithing was not about money, but because of the changing times and less farmers and more supermarkets, i think that one could tithe with money, for the church (or pastor etc.) could use the money to buy food for themselves or for the needy. In order to do this, one would have to make adjustments because of the times and so forth. For instance what about first fruits, but no farming for us? I figured that if one were to tithe with money, and attempt first fruits, that it would be reasonable to consider gross vs net, with gross being first fruits. (I have been self-employed for over 20 years+, so this was a natural understanding and thought process that goes along with that). I have tithed, and with money of course. not because i was told to, but because i wanted to, that does make all the difference in the world! One point that I disagree with you on would be, that God does not honor this today. He most certainly does, and has.

I tithed with money with the right heart. God does not change, and will always honor His promises. Scripture does say that, one can test God in this, and so I did. Quite a few times, ok? I can unequivocally testify to the persinal experience that God most certainly did pour out blessings upon me, and in such a way that it left no room for doubt about it within myself. I actually tithed my bill money before, and the bill did get paid and rather quickly might I add. I even know of a brother who was in a very tight financial condition, and received through work, barely enough to pay the bill before the late date added fee that they put on. he had like two more days or something like that. Then, that night after having earned his bill money, he received a word from the Lord to give it all to...someone, I forget who, someone in need. Now this made him a little anxious about the situation, so he went to talk it over with his wife. She...did not want him to give the bill money away, but he had received instruction to do so. (This was not an actual tithing thing, it did not go to the church, but someone in need). Because the word came from the Lord, he did go against his wife's wishes to pay the darn bill before it's too late as she said. So he did, that night and gave away every dollar of the money. The next day, he received an out of the blue unexpected windfall influx. It was very much more than just enough to pay the bill before the late date. Coincidence? I doubt it. but you know how the Lord works, no proof, just knowing. I believe it.

We do not have an obligation to tithe. But if we choose to, then the Lord will honor his promise and open His storehouse of blessings upon you. We could discuss all of the finer points of tithing, food, Old testament, and all of that until we're blue in the face and it would not matter one iota because...as is shown in scripture, in a few places, that God is not a stickler about details (except obedience of course!), but so it's not food, so it's not for the priest...so what. It's what's in the heart that matters. feed my sheep, feed the needy, help the poor. Help the body, we are one body. jesus healed on the Sabbath, against the Law! But the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath, so it's ok. King David and his men went into the temple and ate the shewbread, which is only for the priests. Those were not sins. they were hungry and had need. The man needed healing. Jesus didn't say, oh sorry, come back on monday or whatever, lol. Same thing with tithing, it's what's in the heart.

We can't afford to tithe? Can we afford not to? lol. We are not here for ourselves. We belong to God and our life is His. he says, freely you have been given, freely give. Love your neighbor as yourself. We are not to live for ourselves, but for the body, and for Christ. Jesus says, what i do you do. Jesus is a blessing for us. We are a blessing for others, in love.
Am I making sense?

i think it's pretty cool that the church offers to repay tithes if one is not blessed. I don't think it should be an obligation for them to have to do that, and i do think it is an expression of their faith. My church does not pass a collection plate. I have NEVER heard them ask for money in any way form or fashion. They do have multiple offering boxes set up all around so that people can give if they want to. They also have a few big boxes for donated items, again never asked for, just there. My church probably has the biggest outreach into the community than any other local church. They help many many people. They have helped me even. They had me sit down with an elder and he asked me what my circumstances and needs were, I did, so they helped me. just like that, no red tape.

Another church that I sat in on a few services before and they made such a big (bragging) deal and point about how many people they help and so forth. I had a big need at the time, so I decided to ask for help. i did. I was given an application for help which had only one question about my needs on it (IIRC), it had almost two full pages of questions like, How much did I give in their collection plate today, the last week, month, year, since coming to the church for the first time. How much have I tithed with them, how much do I expect to tithe with them in the next year, and all sorts of dumb questions like that. I knew immediately that they wouldn't help me, but i was there and wanted to see so filled it out. They wouldn't help me, i got turned down (because I hadn't given them enough already!) I wanted to see how deep this went so arranged a meeting with the same pastor that made a 30 minute bragging session about how many people they help to talk it over with him and further explain my needs. you know what he told me? Am I a widow or an orphan and referred me to a scripture in either 1 or 2 Timothy (i think) about helping widows or orphans. Anhd since I am not a widow or an orphan that he couldn't help me. My jaw almost hit the floor! This man is so far away from brotherly love, and a well known pastor of a huge church that it was hard for me to believe that I was hearing what I was hearing. Wow. Just wow. This same church has a pre sermon, mini sermon every week, where a man, elder, whatever comes to the pulpit and preaches about how we are obligated to tithe, and how we are to love God so much that we should have the heart of giving even to the extent of giving too much because it will increase your faith in God or something like that.Then they pass the plate and after that, the pastors sermon. I'm not exaggerating this.

In a practical manner of speaking, there really is no tithe anymore. It's all offering. but churches use tithing as a way to inflict obligation upon it's members to give more. God will honor the money tithe, if one has tithing upon his heart when he does it. I would not expect god to honor the tithe if one were to tithe in effort to show a profit though. :shock

Bless you sister.

I do believe tithing is just important today as it was back then in the OT as in the OT Malachi 3:10 says to bring your tithe to the storehouse and NT also says we bring our tithe to the storehouse as we give from a willing heart of love to take care of the needs of our Pastors. A Pastors concentration should be on their studies in preparation to feed the flock and not be concerned for their needs or the needs of their family, by having to take an outside job to support them. This is the whole purpose of tithing and this is why we must learn the truth of tithing to give from a cheerful heart and that is when God will bless us.
BTW should be given from the gross and not the net profit.

OT tithe was done under the law commanded by God as to provide for the storehouse of the Temple that would sustain the needs of the Priest, (old covenant under the law Nehemiah 10:38; Malachi 3:10).

NT tithe is done under a new covenant of grace as also providing for the storehouse that sustains the needs of our Pastors. (Matthew 10:10-14; Luke 10:1-7; 1Corinthians 9:9, 14; 1Timothy 5:17, 18;).

Two different covenants of promise, same command of God, but now done in two different ways of what kind of 10% we give to the storehouse, Hebrews 6:19, 20; 8:6.

 

[for_his_glory]

Was this about tithing?

Mark 44:
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

This is called giving from the heart for this is all she had and gave freely of it. Not because she was forced or told to, but because she wanted to.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is interesting.
Where in Scripture does it say the priests and Levites were required to give a tithe to the poor?

There were three kinds of tithes the Israelites were required to give

The first yearly tithe (Num 18:20-21) The first yearly tithe was given by agrarian Jewish families and herdsmen to the Levitical priests in their Levitical city. This tithe replaced any land inheritance rights the Levites had in Israel and provided for them and the Aaronic priesthood basic sustenance. [ii] When the Levites received the tithe, they selected the best tenth of what came in and saved it for the high priest and the priests who resided in the tabernacle (or temple). The Levites were allowed to keep the next 10% for themselves and their family. The balance was to be distributed among the poor.


The Levites were separated into 24 groups. Each Levite was to serve two weeks out of the 24 groups in one year’s time in the tabernacle or later the temple, which amounted to be about twice a year. When he went traveled to the tabernacle for his assignment, he brought the collected tithe of the best portion for the high priest and priests along with him. The rest stayed back in his Levitical city to be used for the poor.


The second yearly tithe (Deut 12:1-19 & 14:22-26) The second yearly tithe (10%) was given by agrarians and herdsmen for the festival and could only be brought to the tabernacle once a year when each household made their annual festival trip. It was called the “festival tithe.” It could not be brought to the Levites in the Levitical cities; therefore, it required all Jews to travel to the annual festival with their tithe. The second tithe of 10% was meant to be eaten by all Israelites as a celebration. Those who brought the tithe would be the ones to eat of its produce. It was like one big potluck celebration. Everyone ate of this second tithe. It was meant to give honor to the LORD and prevent false worship to other gods. It was a time of rejoicing and celebration in the presence of the LORD.


The produce could also be exchanged for money for those traveling great distances. The money then was used to buy wine for the celebration and praise to the LORD. As far back as history can be traced for Israel, gold and silver were used as standards of value and mediums of exchange. The scales and weights were carried about with the precious metal in a bag attached to the girdle.

The second yearly tithe was distinctly different from the first yearly tithe.

The third tithe (Deut 14:28-29 & 26:12-13) The third tithe was to be given to the poor and those in need. It was, however, given once every three years to the local storehouse. The recipients of this “poor tithe” included the “Levites, widows, orphans, fatherless, and Gentile strangers.” – those in need. [iii] Unlike the second tithe, which went to the tabernacle, this tithe had to stay in the towns where the Levites resided to be used by those within that vicinity. Those in need came to the Levites in the Levitical city nearest them to be fed. This tithe ended up to be about 3% per year.


The Levites probably fed the poor from the first and third tithe since a secular government welfare type of system did not exist. It was God’s way to see that all Jews were taken care of. It must also be remembered that no tithes were collected the seventh, fifteenth, and every seventh year after that, along with the Year of Jubilee or when drought or famine brought no increase.

http://theonlinebibleschool.net/ser...e-and-the-levitical-priesthood-in-canaan.html

 

[Deborah13]

Hmmm. How does tithing differ from offering?

It is my understanding the tithes were mandatory. Offerings were not.

My view is that every person that is employed by a ministry should be provided for, especially the one's who are ministering the word of God to the congregation. And it should not be a cheap living. The congregation should make sure their pastor makes a good living. He should be able to take care of himself and his family in a decent life style and not be pinching pennies.

My objection is not to the giving of 10, 20, or whatever %. My objection is to the Way, the tithe is taught. When tithing is taught as mandatory and that God will return to the tither a hundred fold financial blessing they are lying. They are teaching people to give in order to receive more. They teach that the very poorest people Have to tithe or they are robbing God, even if it means they go without their medicine, their food, etc. In Malachi it was not the people who were robbing God, it was the priests. But they lie about that, too. They use fear and greed to get people to pay tithes.
In the OT, the poor did not pay tithes, they received tithes.
In the NT we see the ones who had more, selling what they had and giving to the one's who had not, that is consistent with the OT.

 

[WIP]

My view is that every person that is employed by a ministry should be provided for, especially the one's who are ministering the word of God to the congregation. And it should not [have to] be a cheap living. The congregation should make sure their pastor [can make] makes a good living. He should be able to take care of himself and his family in a decent life style and not be pinching pennies.

I agree with you with the couple modifications shown in blue but at the same time, In my view, a pastor that is truly living his/her ministry should not take advantage of the lifestyle offered by his/her congregation. The reason I say this is that he/she should be focused on his/her calling and not what the congregation can do for him/her. Any pastor that lives a lavish lifestyle, even when the congregation makes it possible, is too focused on the world to truly serve God.

This is how I understand these verses.

Mark 6:
7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

Luke 9:
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

 

[Deborah13]

BTW should be given from the gross and not the net profit.

I think you are missing something here. These tithes didn't just pay for men to give the Word of God. It paid for the whole governmental system. The nation of Israel was a theocracy. The tithes paid for the judges who heard criminal and civil cases. They paid for the upkeep of the government not just the ministry. The whole government actually was God's ministry.

OT tithe was done under the law commanded by God as to provide for the storehouse of the Temple that would sustain the needs of the Priest, (old covenant under the law Nehemiah 10:38; Malachi 3:10).

NT tithe is done under a new covenant of grace as also providing for the storehouse that sustains the needs of our Pastors. (Matthew 10:10-14; Luke 10:1-7; 1Corinthians 9:9, 14; 1Timothy 5:17, 18;).

Two different covenants of promise, same command of God, but now done in two different ways of what kind of 10% we give to the storehouse, Hebrews 6:19, 20; 8:6.

There is not a teaching of the tithe in the NT. Tithe simply means 1/10. You will have to show me where the 1/10 is taught in the NT. Not one of the scriptures you have listed speaks of a 1/10 of one's increase.

The covenant of grace is mentioned as giving from a joyful heart not because it is demanded by any law of the 1/10.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with you with the couple modifications shown in blue but at the same time, In my view, a pastor that is truly living his/her ministry should not take advantage of the lifestyle offered by his/her congregation. The reason I say this is that he/she should be focused on his/her calling and not what the congregation can do for him/her. Any pastor that lives a lavish lifestyle, even when the congregation makes it possible, is too focused on the world to truly serve God.

This is how I understand these verses.

Mark 6:
7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

Luke 9:
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

This says to me that they are to receive what they are given but not to be beggars or demand to be given.

I agree that any pastor that is concentrating on making more money cannot be concentrating on the more important teachings in the Word. Like Jesus told the Pharisees that tithe of even their herbs, He said that was great but they had forgotten the more important things like mercy.

I guess I have a hard time saying what a lavish life style is. I'm not sure how to judge that and the time they have to give to God.
Can a pastor with 5 kids spend more quiet time with the Lord in prayer and study in a house that is 5,000 sq ft compared to a house that is 2,000 sq ft. I think he can.
If one is an evangelist that travels many miles, is it lavish for him to own a plane rather than rely on public airlines. I don't know. When he stays in a hotel, is it lavish for him to stay in the penthouse suite rather than a smaller but comfortable suite, I think it is.

 

[WIP]

Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

This says to me that they are to receive what they are given but not to be beggars or demand to be given. Agreed.

I agree that any pastor that is concentrating on making more money cannot be concentrating on the more important teachings in the Word. Like Jesus told the Pharisees that tithe of even their herbs, He said that was great but they had forgotten the more important things like mercy.

I guess I have a hard time saying what a lavish life style is. I'm not sure how to judge that and the time they have to give to God. That's a good point.
Can a pastor with 5 kids spend more quiet time with the Lord in prayer and study in a house that is 5,000 sq ft compared to a house that is 2,000 sq ft. I think he can. I guess so because it would take more time for the kids to find him.

If one is an evangelist that travels many miles, is it lavish for him to own a plane rather than rely on public airlines. I don't know. When he stays in a hotel, is it lavish for him to stay in the penthouse suite rather than a smaller but comfortable suite, I think it is. Lavish is relative. I have a very lavish life compared to those my daughter is witnessing to in Haiti but compared to someone like Bill Gates, I live a poor and hopeless lifestyle.