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Growth Clothes too tight. too revealing.for church

Good Question.
Don't want legalism...Don't want license either.

Maybe if believers as a whole became aware of how much we are like this world ( our private thoughts and the way we dress) we will choose modesty and purity.

In another thread I posted Matthew 16:24 and asked for comments. Sometimes maybe we should deny ourselves worldliness that we want to participate in so that we may be followers of Jesus.
 
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cftx1 said:
Maybe if believers as a whole became aware of how much we are like this world ( our private thoughts and the way we dress) we will choose modesty and purity.
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Who sets the standards of what's modest and pure?
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cftx1 said:
...Sometimes maybe we should deny ourselves worldliness that we want to participate in so that we may be followers of Jesus.
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I think that's a very good point. We need to take responsibility for ourselves and deny ourselves the things that take us away from following Christ. In context of this thread, if we feel lust for a person (we're focusing too much on guys, this happens to women too!), we need to deny ourselves that feeling, not blame someone else for "giving it to us". Many times I've found the best solution to be prayer. If I feel lust (of ANY kind, not just sexual), if I sincerely turn to God and ask him to direct me in the way he wants me to go and what He wants me to do, I've found the lust disappears. But notice, I don't pray something like (Lord help me to take my eyes off of that woman's body. Help me not to think about that woman..." That kind or prayer simply focuses my mind right back onto what is causing the problem in the first place. A prayer of praise to God, or asking for direction in my spiritual walk, or really anything other than focusing on the lust works if i trust God and am sincere.

The answer is not in legalism. It's not in prohibition of normal activities such as going to the beach or swimming pool. It's not in forcing women to dress like Muslims (especially while guys never fall under scrutiny, as Claudia pointed out). It's in turning our own hearts to God and giving our lives to Him. When we do that, He gives us the strength we need to deal with temptation.
 
God sets the standard for what are pure thoughts and motives and outlines them in the Bible pretty clearly. So I guess the Bible would be the authority on the matter. Modesty is also mentioned directly and indirectly referred to in the Bible. Some times it is easier to define modesty as the opposite of what is immodest. Proverbs has a little to say about that when talking about the adulteress her attire,her attitude,etc. If Jesus said we are guilty of adultery by looking at a woman lustfully. By that same principle are we playing the part of the adulteress when we dress to get a "double take" from the opposite sex Even though we do not actually do the act? MOTIVES.
1Cor 6:9-11 Mark 7:20-23
Like many things pertaining to sanctification we tend to pick and choose what we want to adhere to and not.

Let me reiterate ...I am responsible for my thoughts and motives. No one forces me to sin. Unfortunately I sometimes choose to when tempted. Jesus said such temptations would come, but woe to the person they come through.http://biblehub.com/luke/17-1.htm
 
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Again...Good advice Obadiah.I appreciate your humbleness and self awareness.

We are all sinners that fell short of the glory of God. I am chief among you!

I feel that you are misunderstanding me though. Instructing others on how not to be a temptation to the weaker brother/sister is not blaming. It is instructing in righteousness. Jesus,the Apostle Paul, Timothy,Peter,James, John the Baptist ...all of them do this throughout out the Gospels and the epistles.
 
cftx1 said:
Again...Good advice Obadiah.I appreciate your humbleness and self awareness.

We are all sinners that fell short of the glory of God. I am chief among you!

I feel that you are misunderstanding me though. Instructing others on how not to be a temptation to the weaker brother/sister is not blaming. It is instructing in righteousness. Jesus,the Apostle Paul, Timothy,Peter,James, John the Baptist ...all of them do this throughout out the Gospels and the epistles.
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No, sorry, I didn't mean YOU were blaming others. Just that a lot of us do. Especially guys. There has to be a balance in between the responsibilities of the person wearing the clothes and the person doing the looking. You are pointing out one side of it and I'm just pointing out the other side. What you are saying is very true when a person purposely dresses in a way to show off and cause lust.

And another thought... There are women who dress this way on purpose, and then like to put the blame on those who get lustful thoughts while looking at them, saying it's their fault for not controlling their lust. People that do this also need to take responsibility for their own purposeful actions of bringing on that lust!
 
How should a Pastor (pulpit dude) address this issue? He is charged with teaching and caring for God's flock. Both the beholder and the beholdee are part of that flock. Discussion
 
On a side note...I recently heard Josh McDowell on a radio show state that he believes that pornography is the greatest threat to the church today. You can see where this might tie in with this thread... Flaunting sensuousness and uncontrolled lust a lethal combination.
 
Perhaps it's better dealt with on a personal level with the individual offenders in most cases. (That's a pastor's job too.) Most churches I've been in didn't seem to have a problem with the majority of people dressing inappropriately. If it's just one or two or a small handful, preaching about it from the pulpit can do more harm than good. Especially on a subject like this where, as Gary points out, "Who sets the standards of what's modest and pure?" When it comes to specifics of what particular styles are OK and what styles are sinful, this is a controversial subject that doesn't have any clear answer in scripture beyond a vague "be modest" and a few specific examples that really only applied to the culture of the time. At least I don't THINK the average Christian in 21st century western society views things like braided hair as sinful... I think some mention can be made when there is a reason for it, but this can be dangerous if over-emphasized when you are preaching to an entire group from the pulpit and don't have the advantage of learning the individual person's motives and viewpoints so you can deal with them effectively.

I think of a conversation I had with a teenage boy one time. He, like most teenage boys, was having a hard time controlling his sexual lust. He said to me "Why does my youth pastor keep harping about us not having pre-marital sex? We already know it's wrong, but he won't shut up about it. Every time I finally manage to get my mind off of sex, he preaches about it again and it just puts the whole subject right back in the front of my thoughts again and all the temptation comes back." The same thing could happen with a pastor making a big deal from the pulpit about this kind of thing. It would be really hard to say how a pastor should deal with subjects like this without knowing the congregation and the individuals that make it up. This is a good example of where a pastor needs to be open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in his ministry.
 
Obadiah said:
Perhaps it's better dealt with on a personal level with the individual offenders in most cases. (That's a pastor's job too.) Most churches I've been in didn't seem to have a problem with the majority of people dressing inappropriately. If it's just one or two or a small handful, preaching about it from the pulpit can do more harm than good. Especially on a subject like this where, as Gary points out, "Who sets the standards of what's modest and pure?" When it comes to specifics of what particular styles are OK and what styles are sinful, this is a controversial subject that doesn't have any clear answer in scripture beyond a vague "be modest" and a few specific examples that really only applied to the culture of the time. At least I don't THINK the average Christian in 21st century western society views things like braided hair as sinful... I think some mention can be made when there is a reason for it, but this can be dangerous if over-emphasized when you are preaching to an entire group from the pulpit and don't have the advantage of learning the individual person's motives and viewpoints so you can deal with them effectively.

I think of a conversation I had with a teenage boy one time. He, like most teenage boys, was having a hard time controlling his sexual lust. He said to me "Why does my youth pastor keep harping about us not having pre-marital sex? We already know it's wrong, but he won't shut up about it. Every time I finally manage to get my mind off of sex, he preaches about it again and it just puts the whole subject right back in the front of my thoughts again and all the temptation comes back." The same thing could happen with a pastor making a big deal from the pulpit about this kind of thing. It would be really hard to say how a pastor should deal with subjects like this without knowing the congregation and the individuals that make it up. This is a good example of where a pastor needs to be open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit in his ministry.
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Yeah I mostly agree with that. I can imagine that in some cases it only *becomes* an issue when it is adressed as an issue by the pastor.
Imagine many younger women in a church like to wear tight pants and tight sleeveless shirts because that's what's fashionabele among them. A few people, males and females complained to the pastor about it because they think it's inapprobriate. However, most men haven't even noticed, or haven't given those girl's looks much thought. Now when the pastor preaches about young ladies in their church dressing in an enticing sinfull way I bet many of those men who hadn't noticed any problem yet will start considering the dressing style of those girls sexy and inapprobriate because the pastor's sermon points the men's attention to their style and also suggests there might be a problem with it.
It's one of those problems that grow bigger the more attention you give it.
Today you preach against women wearing short skirts and showing some cleavage. Tomorrow we'll be back to the point where jeans are sinful in church. Next week it's back to women having to wear long skirts. What's the end of that process? Burkas? I heard a horrifying story about rural Afghan women who's husbands interdicted them to even wash themselves because a fresh and clean woman would be too tempting for the men aroud them.

While everyone should of cause use moderation and common sense to judge what kind of behaviour and apearance is approbriate, it's never a good idea to restrict somebody else's freedom just because you feel they may cause you to sin. Your sins are your responsibility. It's your job to handle your sexuality. It's not someone else's job to handle it for you.

I prefere clothes that some of you might consider inapprobriate for church. So what should I do - wear clothes I feel pretty and comfortable with all throughout the week, but go to church in the plainest stuff I can find? Shouldn't I try to look my best when I attend God's congregation (and since I often do some volunteer stuff I also kind of represent God's congregation because I'm one of the people that get noticed). In order to honour God I choose clothes that make me feel like I look neat and confident, e.g. boots with high heels in order to look taller (I'm ony 5.3 feet
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)
 
Claudya said:
...it's never a good idea to restrict somebody else's freedom just because you feel they may cause you to sin. Your sins are your responsibility. It's your job to handle your sexuality. It's not someone else's job to handle it for you.
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"6...whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!" (Matthew 18:6-7 NASB)


"21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." (Romans 14:21-22 NASB)
 
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