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Common Logical Fallacies Made By Muslims,

Lewis

Member
All Christians should read this, all of this, skipping nothing. It may be a little long, but it is to educate us Christians so we will know the truth about Islam and how to handel the muslims that we run across.

Common Logical Fallacies Made By Muslims
Dr. Robert Morey
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Resources ... logic.html

Christians must be prepared to answer the typical objections made against the Gospel. Most of the objections are based on simple logical fallacies. The following is a list of some of the most common fallacies used by Muslims.
Note: The average Muslim does not know that his arguments are logically erroneous. He is sincere in his beliefs. Thus you must be patient and kind in sharing with him why his arguments are invalid.

1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.
Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and the Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.
Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.

2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.

Circle If you end where you began, you got nowhere.

Examples:
#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.
#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.
#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.

3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.
Examples:
#1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc...
#2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc...
#3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say,

"If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."

What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."
The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."
Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time.

4. The Fallacy of Irrelevance: When you introduce issues which have no logical bearing on the subject under discussion, you are using irrelevant arguments.
Examples:
#1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:
a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.
b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.
#2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.
#3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering, This argument is erroneous for several reasons.
a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).
b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice things many things which came from the paganism of that day.
c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).
#4 Some Muslims argue that the Qur'an is the Word of God because it contains some historically or scientifically accurate statements. This argument is irrelevant. Just because a book is correct on some historical or scientific point does not mean it is inspired. You cannot take the attributes of a part and apply it to the whole. A book can be a mixture of true and false statements. Thus it is a logical fallacy to argue that the entire Qur'an is true if it makes one true statement.
When a Muslim argues that history or science "proves" the Qur'an, this actually means that he is acknowledging that history and science can likewise refute the Qur'an. If the Qur'an contains just one historical error or one scientific error, then the Qur'an is not the Word of God. Verification and falsification go hand in hand.
#5 The present meaning of a word is irrelevant to what it meant in ancient times. The word "Allah" is a good example. When confronted by the historical evidence that the word was used by pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times to refer to a high god who was married to the sun-goddess and had three daughters, some Muslims will quote dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. to prove (sic) that "Allah means God." They are thus using modern definitions to define what the word meant over a thousand years ago! What "Allah" means now has no bearing on what it meant before Muhammad.

5. The Fallacy of Equivocation: If we assume that everyone has the same definition of such words as God, Jesus, revelation, inspiration, prophet, miracle, etc., we are committing a very simple logical fallacy.
#1 When a Muslim says, "Christians and Muslims worship the same God," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. While Christians worship the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Muslims worship a Unitarian deity. Obviously, they are worshipping different Gods.
#2 When a Muslim says, "We believe in Jesus too," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. The "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not the Jesus of the Bible. Islam preaches "another Jesus" (II Cor. 11:4). The Jesus of the Bible is God the Son who died on the cross for our sins. But the "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not God the Son and he did not die on the cross for our sins. Thus it is erroneous for Muslims to tell Christians that they believe in Jesus too.
#3 When a Muslim assumes that Christians have the same concept of revelation as Muslims, he is guilty of the fallacy of equivocation. According to Islam, the Qur'an was written in heaven by Allah and has no earthly sources. When we prove that it comes from earthly sources, this threatens the inspiration of the Qur'an.
On the other hand, the Bible does not claim that it dropped out of heaven one day. It openly quotes from earthly sources. It uses pre-existing sources without any difficulty whatsoever. Thus while the Qur'an is threatened by historical sources, the Bible is actually confirmed by them.
#4 When a Muslims tells you that the word "Allah" has only one meaning: "the one, true, universal God," he is assuming a fallacy. The word "allah" has many different meanings.
a. It can be used as a generic term like the English word "God." Thus it can be applied to any god or goddess regardless if if a true or false god is in view. (ex. The "Allahs" of Hinduism.)
b. The Nation of Islam uses it to refer to Wallace Dodd Ford, Elijah Muhammad, and Louis Farrakhan as "Allah" and teaches that all black people are "Allahs."
c. It has been used by some Christians in Arabic speaking countries as a generic name for the Holy Trinity.
d. It was used in pre-Islamic times by pagan Arabs to refer to the moon-god whowas the father of al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat.
e. It is used by Muslims to refer to their god.
Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. The Christian worships the Holy Trinity while the Muslim worships a unitarian deity.

6. The Fallacy of Force: The Qur'an commands Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims and apostates (Surah 5:33; 9:5, 29).
Some Muslims use a false analogy to answer this argument. They respond by saying, "Well, what about the Crusades? You Christians use violence just like Muslims."
It is logically erroneous to set up a parallel between Muslims killing people in obedience to the Qur'an and Christians killing people in disobedience to the Bible. While the Qur'an commands Jihad, the New Testament forbids it.

7. The Fallacy Of Confusing Questions of Fact with Questions of Relevance: Whether something is factually true is totally different from the issue of whether you feel it is relevant. The two issues must be kept separate.
Examples:
#1 When a Christian argues that some of the beliefs and rituals of the Qur'an came from pre-Islamic Arab paganism, the Muslim will deny it at first. But as more and more evidence is given, the Muslim will often do a flip-flop and begin arguing, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?" The Muslim has now committed three fallacies:
a. The "So what!" argument is dealing with the issue of relevance, not fact. You must stop the Muslim at that point and ask him, "Since you are now dealing with the issue of whether the pagan origins of the Qur'an are relevant, does this mean that you are now agreeing to the fact of the pagan origins of Islam?"
b. The Muslim has also committed the fallacy of equivocation. The Bible is not threatened by historical sources. It freely refers to them and even quotes them (Acts 17: 28). But the Qur'an denies that it has any earthly historical sources (Surah 25:4-6).
c. He also committed the fallacy of false analogy. The Bible and the Qur'an are two totally different books. The inspiration of the Bible does not depend upon the fate of the Qur'an because what Muslims claim for the Qur'an is not what Christians claim for the Bible.

8. Phonic Fallacies: The phonetic sound of a word should not be used to twist its meaning. For example,
a. Some Muslims try to prove that the word "Allah" is in the Greek New Testament because of the Greek word alla. But while the word is pronounced "alla," it only means "but" in Greek. It has nothing to do with the Arabic "Allah."
b. Some Muslims have claimed that the word "Allah" is in the Bible because the Biblical word "Allelujah." They then mispronounce the word as "Allah-lujah!" But "Allelujah" is not a compound Arabic word with "Allah" being the first part of the word. It is a Hebrew word with the name of God being "JAH" (or Yahweh) and the verb "alle" meaning "praise to." It means "praise to Yahweh." The Arabic word "Allah" is not in the word.
c. The same error is found in the Muslim argument that the word "Baca" (Psa. 84:6) really means "Mecca." The valley of Baca is in northern Israel.
d. Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Muhammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief.

9. "Red Herring" Arguments: When a Muslim is asked to defend the Qur'an, if he turns around and attacks the reliability of the Bible, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the Crusades, etc., he is introducing irrelevant issues that have no logical bearing on the truthfulness of Islam. He is trying to divert attention from Islam to other issues.
Furthermore, he is assuming that if he can refute the Bible, then the Qur'an wins by default. If he can refute the Trinity, then Allah wins by default. But this is logically erroneous. You cannot prove your position by refuting someone else's position. The Bible and the Qur'an could both be wrong. Muslims must prove their own book.

10. Straw Man Arguments: When you put a false argument into the mouth of your opponent and then proceed to knock it down, you have only created a "straw man" argument. Muslims sometimes either misunderstand or deliberately misquote the arguments Christians give them.
Example:
Some Muslims have built a "straw man" argument that claims that we teach,

"The Qur'an teaches that Allah is the Moon-god and that Muslims knowingly believe in and worship the Moon-god and his daughters."

They then knock down this "straw man" argument and claim victory. Of course, we never said such nonsense. What we have said is that while the Qur'an claims that Allah is God and Muslims think they are worshipping the one true God, in reality they are worshipping a false god preached by a false prophet according to a false book.

Conclusion

The average Muslim has been deceived by Muslim apologists who use such logical fallacies without regard to reason, fact or honesty. But there are many Muslims who want to be rational in their religion and thus have an open mind to rational discourse. Once they see that their arguments are based on logical fallacies, they will be open to the wonderful news that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins on the cross.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Resources ... logic.html
Overview on Dr. Morey's Debate Material
 
Those are excellent points, and the logical fallacies identified are fallacies I have seen Muslims employ with regularity.

I have also seen these very same fallacies used against Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism by some Fundamentalists on this very forum.

Everyone here would benefit from studying these fallacies, so as to avoid employing them, and to create more useful and fruitful dialogue between Christian traditions.

Thanks for the posts.
James
 
The thing is, if you don't know your stuff, and you are talking to a, or some Muslims, they will make you look like a fool. Because they twist and turn the Bible's truth, and add stuff that is not there. Like when they tell you that the word Allah is in the New Testament. You have to be ready for this kind of foolishness. Over the years I have learned a lot from Dr. Morey, this man has opened my eyes to a lot of things about Islam. And as of now I am back to the study of them, so that I may give classes on this subject at my church.
 
Lewis W said:
The thing is, if you don't know your stuff, and you are talking to a, or some Muslims, they will make you look like a fool. Because they twist and turn the Bible's truth, and add stuff that is not there. Like when they tell you that the word Allah is in the New Testament. You have to be ready for this kind of foolishness. Over the years I have learned a lot from Dr. Morey, this man has opened my eyes to a lot of things about Islam. And as of now I am back to the study of them, so that I may give classes on this subject at my church.
Excellent. One deeply disturbing modern trend among Christians is intellectual laziness. A mind must be trained. Paul made an excellnt defense of faith because he had a trained mind that was submitted to God. He knew the arguments of the Stoics, he knew the arguments of the teachers of the Law.

To be sure, intellectual pride turns some away from the faith and after their own imaginations. These were never in love with the Lord more than themselves, anyway. The truly trained and brilliant mind will recognize its own extreme limitation.

To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge.
- Copernicus

Best of luck to you in the instruction of the faithful.
James
 
Here is some more must read stuff.

We have identified Many elements of pagan worship that Muhammad grafted directly into Islam virtually unchanged.

The symbols, the temples, the rituals of modern Islam were practiced by polytheists before Muhammad was born. Islam is Repackaged Polytheism. "Polytheism with a monotheistic veil". This cannot be said about either Judaism or Christianity.

Islam: Truth or Myth? start page

Many elements of pagan worship that Muhammad grafted directly into Islam virtually unchanged.

Arab Pagan worship 500-610 AD

Islam

#1. The Kabah was of pagan origin.

1. Many local pagan sanctuaries like the Kaba at Mecca.
2. Muhammad's tribe was in charge of "Allah's" sanctuary in Mecca.
3. "In northern Arabia, certain tribes looked after particular sanctuaries." (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979)
4. Not only do both the Holy Bible and archaeology contradict this claim, the sound Hadith itself makes it impossible for Abraham and Ishmael to be the ones who built the Kabah: "I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was built first?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Haram." I asked, "Which (was built) next?" He replied, "Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a (i.e. Jerusalem)." I asked, "What was the period in between them?" He replied, "Forty (years)." He then added, "Wherever the time for the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer, for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you."" (Hadith, Sahih al-Bukhari 55:636, Narrated Abu Dhaar). This Hadith affirms that the Kaba was actually built long after Abraham and Ishmael had died. Abraham lived about 2000 BC and the Temple was built by Solomon in about 958-951 BC. This implies that the Kabah was built approximately 998-991 BC. If Muhammad is correct, then the Quran is wrong. But if the Quran is correct in stating that Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaba, then the Hadith is wrong. Yet, if this particular Hadith is wrong then this throws into question the authenticity of the entire Hadith collections, especially Bukhari's collection which is considered to be the most reliable and authentic collection

#2. The Pilgrimage to Mecca

1. "After the Pilgrimage, in Pagan times, the pilgrims used to gather in assemblies in which the praises of ancestors were sung. As the whole of the Pilgrimage rites were spiritualized in Islam, so this aftermath of the Pilgrimage was also spiritualized. (The holy Qur’an, text, translation and commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. 1872-1952, First published in 1938, 1973 ed. p. 80, footnote 223)
2. "temples of the moon gods, with rituals similar in many details to those of the pre-Islamic and Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca." (Britannica, Arabia, History of, p1045, 1979)
3. "A principal public celebration of the Arabians was an annual pilgrimage, in which tribes who shared a common bond of worship of a deity at a specific sanctuary would reunite there. A pattern of ceremonial procession around the baetyl [the sacred stone] was common, and this pattern may be seen in the surviving Islamic custom of the pilgrimage to Mecca." (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979)
4. Muhammad merely borrowed this wide spread polytheistic worship style and adopted it into Islam as a central rite. Same polytheistic pilgrimage under the disguise of a modified monotheism.
5. It is true that in the hajj many pre-Islamic practices were retained, but as has been shown above, the origin of these practices is traceable to Abraham, and every one of them carries with it a spiritual significance. (The Religion of Islam, Maulana Muhammad Ali, p. 448, 1936, Muslim).
6. Is it not unfortunate that so many Orientalists have misinterpreted the Muslim's veneration of the Ka'bah, the Black Stone and the pilgrimage rites as a whole, imagining them as some kind of idol worship, or dismissing the rites as silly, ridiculous or merely the relics of idolatrous superstition? Another faulty assumption is that the rites of pilgrimage were remnants of a pre-Islamic cult included by the Prophet in an attempt to reconcile the idolatrous Meccans with the faith. (The Sublime Qur'an and Orientalism, Mohammad Khalifa, p. 140, 1983, Muslim).
7. "The Arabs during the pre-Islamic period used to practice certain things that were included in the Islamic Sharia. They, for example, did not marry both a mother and her daughter. They considered marrying two sisters simultaneously to be a most heinous crime. They also censured anyone who married his stepmother, and called him dhaizan. They made the major [hajj] and the minor [umra] pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, performed the circumambulation around the Ka'ba [tawaf], ran seven times between Mounts Safa and Marwa [sa'y], threw rocks and washed themselves after intercourse. They also gargled, sniffed water up into their noses, clipped their fingernails, plucked their hair from their armpits, shaved their pubic hair and performed the rite of circumcision. Likewise, they cut off the right hand of a thief." (Al-Milal wa al-Nihil, Muhammad ibn 'Abdalkarim al-Sharastani, Muslim, vol. 2 chapter on the opinions of the pre-Islamic Arabs, as quoted in al-Fadi, Is the Qur'an Infallible?, p. 122, non-Muslim)

#3. Praying 5 times a day

1. Polytheistic worshippers prayed 5 times a day towards their local kaba’s.
2. "The Sabeans have five prayers similar to the five prayers of the Muslims. Others say they have seven prayers, five of which are comparable to the prayers of the Muslims with regard to time [that is, morning, noon, afternoon, evening and night; the sixth is at midnight and the seventh is at forenoon]. It is their practice to pray over the dead without kneeling down or even bending the knee. They also fast for one lunar month of thirty days; they start their fast at the last watch of the night and continue till the setting of the sun. Some of their sects fast during the month of Ramadan, face Ka'ba when they pray, venerate Mecca, and believe in making the pilgrimage to it. They consider dead bodies, blood and the flesh of pigs as unlawful. They also forbid marriage for the same reasons as do Muslims." (Bulugh al-'Arab fi Ahwal al-Arab, Muhammad Shukri al-Alusi, Vol 1, p 121-122, Muslim)

1. Prior to Islam the people would pray 5 times a day facing Mecca (
2. The Encyclopedia of Islam p. 303) Worshippers in pagan Sabian religion that worshipped stars were "obliged to pray three times a day" (
Preliminary Discourse to the Koran, Sale, 1801)

1. At first, Muhammad prayed towards Jerusalem, but when he was rejected by the Jews, started directing his prayers towards Mecca. Today, monotheistic Muslims pray 5 times a day towards Mecca to Allah. Muhammad grafted this pagan practice into Islam.

#4. Crescent moon symbol

1. The crescent moon symbol was used since 2100 BC in paganism. Polytheism has extensively used the symbol of the crescent moon as far back as Abraham as hundreds of archeological examples verify.
2. All the Arabs at the Kaba in Mecca worshipped the moon god Hubal.
3. Crescent moon is the official symbol of Islam on top of every Mosque in the world and beside the Kaba on top of the Maqam Ibrahim! It is the last remaining polytheistic remnant of ancient moon worship under a new sanitized monotheistic veil.

#5. "The Run"

1. Pagans performed a fast walk between As-Safa and Al-Marwah.
2. Muhammad redefined the meaning while retaining the ritual.
3. Islamic pilgrimage requires a fast walk between As-Safa and Al-Marwah.

#7. "The Throw"

1. The polytheistic pilgrimages required throwing stones at the devil.
2. Muhammad retained this concept where the Islamic pilgrimage requires throwing pebbles at three fixed points in Mina, which represent evil. The pilgrim throws rocks over his shoulder at the three stone pillars which he has been told will frighten away the "djinn" or demons which the stone pillars represent.

#8. The Black Stone

1. "A principal sacred object in Arabian religion was the stone
2. , either a rock outcropping or a large boulder, often a rectangular or irregular black basaltic stone ... " (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979) "Of the numerous baetyls, the best known is the Black Stone of the Ka'bah at Mecca, which became the central shrine object of Islam." (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979) The black stone is believed to be a meteorite that struck the earth at the time of Adam.
3. "Moslems do not worship the Black Stone, but only show special reverence and veneration for its dignity and they kiss it only after the example of the Prophet and to keep their Covenant with God to obey His Will and avoid His disobedience." (The Spirit of Islam, Tabbarah, p. 173, Muslim).
4. "The kissing of the meteorite is a firm practice in Islamic law because Muhammad did it. You must not ask about the wisdom behind that because this rite is (an expression) of worship in spite of the obscurity of its wisdom" (Legal Opinions, Sheikh Sha'rawi, pt. 3, p. 167, Muslim)

#9. Holy Days: Friday & Fasting during Ramadan

1. Polytheistic pilgrimage required fasting for the month that begins and ends with the crescent moon for each pagan god.
2. During the holy month of Ramadan (November) Muslims begin and end month long fast exactly the same time and manner as the polytheism that pre-dated Muhammad.
3. Muslim practices such as gathering on Friday and the four sacred months of Islam were also pre-Islamic customs: "In Bulugh al-'Arab fi Ahwal al-'Arab, we read, 'The four sacred months, Rajab, Dhu al-Qa'da, Dhu al-Hijja and Muharram, had been considered sacred during the pre-Islamic period [Jahiliya]. Raids, taking revenge, war, fighting and disputes were forbidden during them. If a man were to meet his enemy who killed his father or brother during these months, he would not quarrel with him... During the sacred months, [the people] were under restriction not to fight or make raids, and had to remove [their] spearheads as a sign that they would avoid fighting at all costs.' Obviously, Islam borrowed the hallowing of these months from Pre-Islamic Arabs and introduced nothing new into the world." (Is the Qur'an Infallible?, 'Abdallah 'Abd al-Fadi, Light of Life, , p. 127, non-Muslim)

#10. Abstinence during Pilgrimage

1. "Another practice that left its influence on Islam was ceremonial abstinence
2. . The South Arabian festival of Halfan was a moratorium on the use of weapons. Certain times were specified for fasting and abstention from sexual relations. Burnt offerings and sacrifices were common." (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979) This identical pagan origin ceremonial abstinence is present today in Islam. Muhammad merely continued this pagan ritual and retained it in Islam.

#11. Allah

1. "The verses of the Qur’an make it clear that the very name Allah existed in the Jahiliyya or pre-Islamic Arabia. Certain pagan tribes believed in a god whom they called ‘Allah’ and whom they believed to be the creator of heaven and earth and holder of the highest rank in the hierarchy of the gods. It is well known that the Quraish as well as other tribes believed in Allah, whom they designated as the ‘Lord of the House’ (i.e., of the Ka’ba)...It is therefore clear that the Qur’anic conception of Allah is not entirely new." (A Guide to the Contents of the Qur’an, Faruq Sherif, (Reading, 1995), pgs. 21-22., Muslim)

#12. Praising Allah

1. "After the Pilgrimage, in Pagan times, the pilgrims used to gather in assemblies in which the praises of ancestors were sung. As the whole of the Pilgrimage rites were spiritualized in Islam, so this aftermath of the Pilgrimage was also spiritualized. It was recommended for pilgrims to stay on two or three days after the Pilgrimage, but they must use them in prayer and praise to God. See ii. 203 below." (
The holy Qur’an, text, translation and commentary, by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. 1872-1952, First published in 1938, 1973 ed. p. 80, footnote 223, commenting on 2:200, "So when ye have accomplished your holy rites, celebrate the praises of God, as ye used to celebrate the praises of your fathers,- yea, with far more Heart and soul.")

To get the full impact visit the site.
Because the site has click on info.
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-polythe ... orship.htm


Written by Brother Andrew
 
wow. I actually just read this ( i dont check this forum often) and many of (not all but abotu 85%) of these arguments, canbe used exactly the same,between christianity and atheism, or christianity and islam, just, the other way around.

You cant say jesus is true because the bible says it, and that the bible is true, because jesus said it. I hear that ALL the time. I get personal attacks because, since, I don;t know the bible, I obviously know nothing.

I actually will look around a bit, I think there is basically this exact same list, for christianity. lol :-P
 
True Christians are not pagans, but Islam comes from paganism. The same cannot be said about true Christ like folks.
 
Lewis W said:
True Christians are not pagans, but Islam comes from paganism. The same cannot be said about true Christ like folks.

But the number of true christ like folks, is less than the number of Atheists. I mean, if you look at it, SOOO many people say "I am a Christian" but 90% of them sin daily, they don't read the bible, they dont know anything from the bible, besides maybe 2 commandments, and that Noah had an ark.

It all sorta depends on who you think follows in the path of Christ.

If its everyone that says they are christian, it fits perfectly pretty much
If its only those that truly follow the path, Then whats the big deal about teaching evolution, and not saying "Under God" and displaying the 10 commandments, It obviously isnt a "Christian" nation then.

idunno if it made sense i cant think of the easiest way to explain whats in my head. srry :-(
 
peace4all said:
Lewis W said:
True Christians are not pagans, but Islam comes from paganism. The same cannot be said about true Christ like folks.

But the number of true christ like folks, is less than the number of Atheists.

I suppose you think that is a proven fact, or are you making up your own statistics again? ..... :roll:


peace4all said:
I mean, if you look at it, SOOO many people say "I am a Christian" but 90% of them sin daily, they don't read the bible, they dont know anything from the bible, besides maybe 2 commandments, and that Noah had an ark.

again, peace4all makes up his own statistics. :-?

peace4all said:
It all sorta depends on who you think follows in the path of Christ.

If its everyone that says they are christian, it fits perfectly pretty much
If its only those that truly follow the path, Then whats the big deal about teaching evolution, and not saying "Under God" and displaying the 10 commandments, It obviously isnt a "Christian" nation then.


:o Lord Have Mercy!


.
 
have you ever watched any report done on TV? or by agencies that ask people questions.

People are more likely to know who J-lo is dating, than be able to know who alito is.. People know more of the 7 dwarfs, than the apostles. People can name all the reindeer, but not mroe than 2-3 of the commandments.

Yes, they are guess's but logical ones. I mean, Look at America, Look at others on this forum,on the internet, in public. How many of them keep sinning, but say they are christian?

do a poll yourself. Make up a handfull of questions, 1/2 about christianity, Simple questions, name 5 commandments, Name 2 apostles, Name where Jesus was born, why soddom was destroyed, who was Job, simple things, and then the other 1/2 about pop culture. Make them easy ones. What kind of music does britney speers sing, name the 7 dwarfs, who played in last years super bowl.

aks a dozen people, and the number that get the christian questions right, will be WAY down compared to the non christian ones. (of course, ask if they consider themselves christian) Follow up and ask how many times a year they go to church, What their favorite part of the bible is, and a few other questions. you will stump them.

Honestly, very few americans know more commandments than "thou shalt not steal"
 
Relic said:
peace4all said:
Lewis W said:
True Christians are not pagans, but Islam comes from paganism. The same cannot be said about true Christ like folks.

But the number of true christ like folks, is less than the number of Atheists.

I suppose you think that is a proven fact, or are you making up your own statistics again? ..... :roll:


peace4all said:
I mean, if you look at it, SOOO many people say "I am a Christian" but 90% of them sin daily, they don't read the bible, they dont know anything from the bible, besides maybe 2 commandments, and that Noah had an ark.

again, peace4all makes up his own statistics. :-?

peace4all said:
It all sorta depends on who you think follows in the path of Christ.

If its everyone that says they are christian, it fits perfectly pretty much
If its only those that truly follow the path, Then whats the big deal about teaching evolution, and not saying "Under God" and displaying the 10 commandments, It obviously isnt a "Christian" nation then.


:o Lord Have Mercy!


.
.

Peace4all's understanding is tainted by his lack of understanding! 8-) But what would you expect from a sinner who refuses the righteousness of Jesus Christ to cover up his sin.

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peace4all's last words hello up there could someone give me some water and bring me a fan, it is so hot down here. Can anybody hear me, could you just dip your finger in some water and put it on my tongue, and go tell my brethren don't ever come down here. Ohhhhh My God, my pants and shoes just caught fire. I am sorry Jesus I didn't mean it. I was just joking around when I said all those things up there at 123. Oh Nooooo the guy next to me, head is on fire.
 
dont u see hyow that logic works?

If you don't believe, and you question it, you are a sinner, and wrong, and going to hell, so, Don't question it, Don't think, just follow blindly, as sheep.

I would think if Christianity was the right path, then it wouldn't be so easy to debunk, and it wouldnt come with so many "catch alls" that basically say "this is true because the bible says it, and the bible is true because the bible says so"

But, Sure, If God sends me to hell, and I burn for all eternity, and i see all "christians" go to heaven, I will regret that I am being tortured by someone unloving to look at the fact that I do not believe, yet does not look at the fact that I spoend a good deal of tiem helping the less fortunate, and attempting to better our society.


So guys, WHat are you all going to say when you die and wake up in a blank place, with me standing there, and nothing more saying "told ya so!"
 
peace4all said:
dont u see hyow that logic works?

If you don't believe, and you question it, you are a sinner, and wrong, and going to hell, so, Don't question it, Don't think, just follow blindly, as sheep.

I would think if Christianity was the right path, then it wouldn't be so easy to debunk, and it wouldnt come with so many "catch alls" that basically say "this is true because the bible says it, and the bible is true because the bible says so"

But, Sure, If God sends me to hell, and I burn for all eternity, and i see all "christians" go to heaven, I will regret that I am being tortured by someone unloving to look at the fact that I do not believe, yet does not look at the fact that I spoend a good deal of tiem helping the less fortunate, and attempting to better our society.


So guys, WHat are you all going to say when you die and wake up in a blank place, with me standing there, and nothing more saying "told ya so!"
 
Lewis W said:
peace4all's last words hello up there could someone give me some water and bring me a fan, it is so hot down here. Can anybody hear me, could you just dip your finger in some water and put it on my tongue, and go tell my brethren don't ever come down here. Ohhhhh My God, my pants and shoes just caught fire. I am sorry Jesus I didn't mean it. I was just joking around when I said all those things up there at 123. Oh Nooooo the guy next to me, head is on fire.
 
Orthodox Christian said:
[quote="Lewis W":a5391]The thing is, if you don't know your stuff, and you are talking to a, or some Muslims, they will make you look like a fool. Because they twist and turn the Bible's truth, and add stuff that is not there. Like when they tell you that the word Allah is in the New Testament. You have to be ready for this kind of foolishness. Over the years I have learned a lot from Dr. Morey, this man has opened my eyes to a lot of things about Islam. And as of now I am back to the study of them, so that I may give classes on this subject at my church.
Excellent. One deeply disturbing modern trend among Christians is intellectual laziness. A mind must be trained. Paul made an excellnt defense of faith because he had a trained mind that was submitted to God. He knew the arguments of the Stoics, he knew the arguments of the teachers of the Law.

To be sure, intellectual pride turns some away from the faith and after their own imaginations. These were never in love with the Lord more than themselves, anyway. The truly trained and brilliant mind will recognize its own extreme limitation.

To know that we know what we know, and to know that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge.
- Copernicus

Best of luck to you in the instruction of the faithful.
James[/quote:a5391]

I miss James... :sad

Sure wish he was back...
 
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