Common Logical Fallacies Made By Muslims,

[peace4all]

ohh peanuts, I think i misread what you wrote.

are you saying that the bible has to verify the Quran, to make it count, or are you saying that the Quran depends upon the bible?

Idunno, can u explain it better, I think i misinterpreted what you wrote :

 

[Lewis]

Yes the Bible has to verify the Quran if the Quran was to have any merit. The Quran would have to agree with the Bible on all points. And we all know that it doesn't. But yet Muhammed constantly would say if you don't believe me go to the Bible. You can see right there how confused he was. Because Islam does not agree with the God of the Bible. The Bible does not verify Islam Abraham's descendents doctrine of faith.

 

[peace4all]

ok, then i think I did get what you said.

I throw out my use of the quran, that was a bad example for me to use when discussing this issue, because those texts, can basically be directly tossed out.

However, I listed several other religous texts. the only proof for them is the texts themselves, and, you can always observe things that are apparently in them. So what makes them less important, and less true than the bible?

 

[Lewis]

ok, then i think I did get what you said.

I throw out my use of the quran, that was a bad example for me to use when discussing this issue, because those texts, can basically be directly tossed out.

However, I listed several other religous texts. the only proof for them is the texts themselves, and, you can always observe things that are apparently in them. So what makes them less important, and less true than the bible?

Because Jesus testified to the Bible, and used scripture when He talked. He even used scripture when He was being tempted by the Devil. And he would quote certain prophets when He talked. So he proves that the Bible is true and all others is false.

 

[peace4all]

ehh??

I must have miss understood again (i am totally not doign good this time)

So, did jesus quote OT? right? And what makes that diffrent from other people that had read the OT?

So what about other religions, where religous figures used their scripture in conversation and quotted prophets? Does that too make them correct?

 

[Rob]

Peace, I believe I understand what you are asking here but correct me if I'm wrong. You are asking us what makes the teachings of the Bible any more correct than any other religious teachings, not just the Koran but any other religious teachings. For now I will just post an answer I found on another forum post in a different forum but I will try to post more later on as time allows,

You ask, “who can say with reasonable certainty that the writers of other religious books were not honest, trustworthy, and reliable as well?†Usually, the answer to this question can be found within the texts of the writers themselves. Mohammed claimed that Allah absolved him from keeping his own word! Read Surah 66 and tell me that Mohammed was a man of integrity. Read his biography and tell me that he wasn’t a self-serving murderer. Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud. That was the judgment of a court of law. There are numerous testimonies that vouch for his poor character. Charles Taze Russel lost both of his court cases against those whom he accused of slander. What does that say about his credibility? Buddha named his first-born son ‘Shackle’ and promptly abandoned his baby and his wife to set out on a selfish pursuit of selflessness. What does this say about his integrity? I will agree to compare the character and integrity of Jesus Christ against any founder of any other religion.

*edit*
Check out this link, http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn53/bibletrue.htm

 

[peace4all]

Rob, I have only 2 minutes to reply ATM, I will get back to the link later... Just first thing i noticed.

How accurately can we trust a judgement from a court, Was jesus not crucified because people misenterpreted laws?

Peopel can make arguments ambout madalign (methinks) and that Jesus was not as pure as believed (just as people can make arguments against other religions that they abondoned people etc)

every religion has fail safes, making them automatically right. example off the top of my head. Regardless of what proofs i may show, I am a "fool" as the bible states, and sent to try to deceive you by the devil, so, It must be clever lies.

It seems that all religions have these embedded in to make sure they can't be disproven (well, islam doesn't do too good at it but..."

 

[Rob]

Peace, I don't for one second consider you a fool trying to mislead me. I understand that some others might give you that impression but I will do my best to never do that. I see you more as a lost soul and pray that one day you will find the truth. I don't think the fact that Jesus went to court can be used against him as it was in the other incidents, remember that the judge found no wrong in his deeds and only allowed the punishment to pretty much prevent a riot. Remember, Pilot washed his hands ;)

 

[peace4all]

Cool

I read over that link, and....... It doesn't quite satisfy my mind.

In part, it quotes job 26:7 saying that the earth hangs on nothing, and stating "this obviously proves that the bible writers knew the earth was round"

Yet, it leaves out earlier job 9:6 6Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. which would state that the earth does nto hang on anything, but it rests on a pillar, and is not an orbiting sphere.

The fact that the bible is so alike, even after 40 diffrent authors, doesn't satisfy me at all, because there are huge discrepencies over which words mean what, the proper translation, and the proper context. 1/2 is literal, 1/2 is figurative, and that changes for each and every denomination. It also states that since it has lasted soo long in tact, it is true. THis obviously overlooks all the other books (judas) that are found or continue to be found, and any texts that wernt cannonized. Anything that wen't against the mainstream points of the bible, were just deleted, preserving the bible as a whole (wether this was deletion because they were false documents, or deletion to keep the bible holy, is debateable)

The author does point out that the "Myths" of the bible, can be debated, which is pretty cool because it jsut shows this article isnt loaded and 100% biased (I like it when I get articles that aren't like that.

PeaNuts! time for class! I will have to discuss this more (a few of the parts of this article, I agreed with and can say "ok, that is acceptable")

 

[Rob]

Peace,

From that same link is something else I think might help you out,

http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/UB/UB.pdf

 

[peace4all]

Rob, I do tend to agree that paul, john, luke, and mark, tend to be very much alike, and very few if any contradictions. The problems arise between OT and the NT, and then acts, Psalms, exodus, etc...

 

[Lewis]

ehh??

I must have miss understood again (i am totally not doign good this time)

So, did jesus quote OT? right? And what makes that diffrent from other people that had read the OT?

So what about other religions, where religous figures used their scripture in conversation and quotted prophets? Does that too make them correct?

The Bible has to verify all others, and the Bible does not.

 

[peace4all]

so your saying "for anything else to be right, the bible has to say so"


So, then why can't it be "well, my religous texts don't verify the bible, so the bible is wrong"

lol..

Im srry but lewis, using that logic you have essentially closed your mind to any kidn of outward thought.

 

[Solo]

so your saying "for anything else to be right, the bible has to say so"


So, then why can't it be "well, my religous texts don't verify the bible, so the bible is wrong"

lol..

Im srry but lewis, using that logic you have essentially closed your mind to any kidn of outward thought.

Where you fail in understanding, Peace4all, is in understanding the purpose of the things around you. You continually jump to conclusions without understanding the foundation of the isssues.

Let me offer you an analogy. You buy a complicated piece of software, and when you buy this software comes a users manual. Now, will you come to understand the software by reading the users manual of a Sanyo Television set? No. You must read the Users Manual of the specific software that you purchased.

The God who created this world has given us the Users Manual of his creation, and without it, you will never understand what makes things tick that he has created. He has created the heavens and the earth, and no amount of energy exercised in figuring out the way things work through manmade theories will help in understanding the truth.

 

[Apple Pie]

... Because Islam does not agree with the God of the Bible....

Islam does not...but the Koran does...

The Koran is essentially and extra Biblical confirmation to the authority of the Holy Bible...

 

[Halal]

Where you fail in understanding, Peace4all, is in understanding the purpose of the things around you. You continually jump to conclusions without understanding the foundation of the isssues.

Let me offer you an analogy. You buy a complicated piece of software, and when you buy this software comes a users manual. Now, will you come to understand the software by reading the users manual of a Sanyo Television set? No. You must read the Users Manual of the specific software that you purchased.

The God who created this world has given us the Users Manual of his creation, and without it, you will never understand what makes things tick that he has created. He has created the heavens and the earth, and no amount of energy exercised in figuring out the way things work through manmade theories will help in understanding the truth.

thats funny that you say that because your so hasty in making generalizations about muslims and Islam without knowing the religon.

 

[Lewis]

[quote="Lewis W":664de]... Because Islam does not agree with the God of the Bible....

Islam does not...but the Koran does...

The Koran is essentially and extra Biblical confirmation to the authority of the Holy Bible...[/quote:664de]the Quran is not a continuation of the Bible, and I wish this will stop being said. The God of the Quran is not the God of the Bible.

 

[Apple Pie]

[quote="Apple Pie":b5dff][quote="Lewis W":b5dff]... Because Islam does not agree with the God of the Bible....

Islam does not...but the Koran does...

The Koran is essentially and extra Biblical confirmation to the authority of the Holy Bible...[/quote:b5dff]the Quran is not a continuation of the Bible, and wish this will stop being said. The God of the Quran is not the God of the Bible.[/quote:b5dff]

Correct...

The Koran is an attempt at copying the Holy Bible.

It is definately not a continuation of it.

I also agree that the god of the Koran is not the God of the Holy Bible.

The etymology of the term "allah" has its root based in pagan Arab idol worship.

The authors who penned the Koran attempt to dress-up their pagan god "allah" with the Biblical deity attributes of Jesus Christ, in order to make make it appear that it has deity...

 

[peace4all]

But when you look at something, that you don't fully understand, u don't know much about it, and there are 400 diffrent manuals (all the diffrent reigous texts of the world) and all work equally well. How can you say that the one u happened to pick, is the perfect right one?

 

[Apple Pie]

But when you look at something, that you don't fully understand, u don't know much about it, and there are 400 diffrent manuals (all the diffrent reigous texts of the world) and all work equally well. How can you say that the one u happened to pick, is the perfect right one?

Test it...