Condemned Already !

[savedbygrace57]

Jn 3:

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


This is perhaps one of the most misunderstood scriptures in the New Testament, as well as being one of the most twisted, for it is commonly taught that herein lies why men are condemned, because they refuse to believe in the name of the Only Son of God. However if we look more carefully, thats not the case at all, in fact, this scripture is actually informing us as to why one does not believe on Christ, and that reason is because they are condemned already. Yes, they are , even before confronted with the gospel of Christ, already condemned, and their refusal to believe the Gospel, gives evidence of being in a condemned state; and of course the opposite is true, that is those believing in Christ and His Gospel, give evidence of not being in a condemned state as the first part of the verse indicates Jn 3:18a

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:

Now understand, He was not uncondemend after having made a choice to believe, but He was not condemned already, and that is why He believed. So believing gives evidence of not already being condemned, and not believing gives evidence of already being condemned, thats what this scripture is relating to us..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Condemned Already ! cont



Now understand, He was not uncondemend after having made a choice to believe, but He was not condemned already, and that is why He believed. So believing gives evidence of not already being condemned, and not believing gives evidence of already being condemned, thats what this scripture is relating to us..

Now shall I explain the difference of the Two, The one who believes is not condemned because his or her sins have been imputed to Christ, and by His death, their sins which would condemned them, have been already condemned and punished in Christ, and God the Father hath been propitiated on their behalf. Lets look at 1 jn 2: 2 at the word propitiation . It is the greek word hilasmos and means, a sacrifice that bears God's wrath, and causes God to be favorable to the one He is propitiated towards, His wrath has been turned away.

Jesus blood propitiated or satisfied God's wrath for sinners. Jesus drank a cup of God's wrath for His people Jn 18:


11Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

This propitiation is what reconciles those Christ died for to God rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being reconciled, all for whom Christ died are [even while enemies and unbelievers] in a state of favor and friendship with God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:

) to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

So being reconciled, being received into God's favor, even yet while being enemies and unbelievers by nature, their sins propitiated for, they are not legally in a condemned state before God, and it is these it is said " Whoever believes on Him is not condemned". How could they be ? You see all those who Christ died for are in a state of favor before God, because of Christ death, they are not in a condemned state, even though in a sinful state and enemies by nature rom 5:10, for it is impossible to be reconciled to God, in His favor, and also condemned and having His wrath abiding on you.

So , yes, a person can be in a sinful state, but not a condemned state, if Christ has been condemned in your stead and on your behalf..

 

[Glowstique]

Ok, im trying to understand your position. I really am. So heres my next go. xD

Do you believe in predeterminism?

God is omniscient. He already knows what is going to happen and when. Therefore, he does know who will be saved and who will be condemned, but that does not change the fact that Jesus died for all. It was Gods desire that all would be saved, but he knew that not all would accept his son. So if this is what you have been trying to say all along, then I agree. And if it is, in the future if you want to tell us something without causing a lot of confusion, you might want to send it to someone you know and see if the understand what you are trying to say.

So if someone is saved, even before they were saved, if you believe in predeterminism, he was already saved before he was saved. Kind of confusing.

If thats not what you are trying to convey, then im still hopelessly lost. o.o

 

[Eventide]

Calvinists don't understand the simple biblical truth that the flesh is condemned in all men... even in Christians.. it's not their OLD NATURE according to the FLESH which is JUSTIFIED before God, it's the life of CHRIST within the believer which is justified.

A simple biblical fact.

Calvinists are no different than anyone else.. they're only taught that they are.. lol

 

[savedbygrace57]

Condemned Already ! cont

Now lets look at the ones believing not on the Son Jn 3:

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The reason being, because he or she is already condemned, meaning their sins had not been charged to Christ, and so God has not been propitiated for their sins on their behalf, and they have not been reconciled to God by the death of His Son [if they had, they could not be already condemned], and so their unbelief is a evidence of them being under God's Judicial wrath Jn 3:


36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Now this should tell us something ! If the wrath of God remains upon them, that means His wrath was not propitiated for them in the first place as is the case with those in 1 jn 2:2. How can God be propitiated [ wrath appeased] and have one remain under His wrath at the same time ? For you see, either a sinners sins have been propitiated/atoned for or they have not, there is no middle ground. Those whose sins have been atoned for, they are not under God's wrath, and never will be, but those whose sins have not been atoned for, are under God's wrath, and condemned already [for their sins] and guess what else, they shall never see Life. Jn 3:


36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You see that, they are condemned already [past] and present, and they shall [future] not see life, never.. There is not even the remotest possibility that they will see life, meaning eternal life.

So Jesus is teaching in Jn 3 18 that some cannot believe on Him, because they are in a condemned state, which will never change, they have no Saviour, no Redeemer in Christ, and so as a Judgment from God and being under His wrath [rom 1:18] they will not be able to believe on God's Son, because that would mean, He bore their sins, and satisfied God's wrath against them, but since they are condemned already and shall remain under His wrath, they have no reason nor right to believe on the name of the Saviour from sin...
​

 

[savedbygrace57]

The elect of God, even while in unbelief and in a unregenerated state, dead in sin, at enmity with God, even then, they are not condemned for their sins, because Christ has already borne that legal condemnation on their behalf, and they have been reconciled to God by His death rom 5:

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So it is impossible to be reconciled to God [in His Favor] and be condemned by Him for our sins at the same time..​

 

[Glowstique]

I do understand now! Whooo! Ok I dont think your crazy any more. :P God already knows what will happen, so in a way, it has already happened. Everyone who does not get saved was never going to get saved, and someone who is saved was always saved. But once again, that doesnt change the fact that Jesus died for all, even if he knew who would and wouldnt accept him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I do understand now! Whooo! Ok I dont think your crazy any more. :P God already knows what will happen, so in a way, it has already happened. Everyone who does not get saved was never going to get saved, and someone who is saved was always saved. But once again, that doesnt change the fact that Jesus died for all, even if he knew who would and wouldnt accept him.

You still seem to be in the dark on this issue, and I have explained it.

 

[Glowstique]

*sigh*
I give up. :[

 

[savedbygrace57]

You see, the non elect are already condemned before they make it manifest by not believing the Truth.. That is what is meant by the phrase, they are condemned already..Unbelief is not what condemns one, but ones own sins does and the fact that Christ did not die for them..

 

[Sinthesis]

You see, the non elect are already condemned before they make it manifest by not believing the Truth.. That is what is meant by the phrase, they are condemned already..Unbelief is not what condemns one, but ones own sins does and the fact that Christ did not die for them..

So in effect you're blaming Jesus for not dying for everybody. Nice!

You know Schroedinger's Cat is quite entertained at all the hoops you're willing to jump through to personally try and come to terms with God's omniscience and omnipotence.:rolling

 

[Hitch]

So in effect you're blaming Jesus for not dying for everybody. Nice!

You know Schroedinger's Cat is quite entertained at all the hoops you're willing to jump through to personally try and come to terms with God's omniscience and omnipotence.:rolling

God is someone lots of people dont like and most do not approve of. He will save those He chooses and burn the rest, and is unconcerned of our approval

 

[savedbygrace57]

sin:

So in effect you're blaming Jesus for not dying for everybody.

Not at all..

 

[Jozinky]

So in effect you're blaming Jesus for not dying for everybody. Nice!

No... What he's doing is saying that there are wicked people who are not under condemnation. They're under the blessing of God while they are in their wickedness.

Pr 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesses the habitation of the just.

Since he believes the false doctrine of eternal justification he would say that an elect person is exempt from the curse and is under the blessing of God even while he's in his wickedness before he becomes saved.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

No... What he's doing is saying that there are wicked people who are not under condemnation. They're under the blessing of God while they are in their wickedness.

Thats correct, the elect, even while they are enemies of God by nature, they have been reconciled [put in favor] to God by the death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we [God's elect] were enemies, we were [past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So then they were not condemned when they were enemies as the non elect are..

 

[Jozinky]

joz:

>>No... What he's doing is saying that there are wicked people who are not under condemnation. They're under the blessing of God while they are in their wickedness.

Thats correct, the elect, even while they are enemies of God by nature, they have been reconciled [put in favor] to God by the death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we [God's elect] were enemies, we were [past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So then they were not condemned when they were enemies as the non elect are..

So you believe that Paul was under the -Blessing- of God while he was murdering Christians. You believe there are unregenerate, unbelievers who are justified in their sin. You believe wicked people are justified while they are in their wickedness. You would re-write the Bible to say...
Pr 3:33 The Blessing of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: ...

Yet Scripture says...
Pr 17:15 He that justifies the wicked, and he that condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.

Therefore, to say wicked people are justified in their wickedness, as you do, is abomination.

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

So you believe that Paul was under the -Blessing- of God while he was murdering Christians.

Exactly, I was going to use him as an example. He was set apart from His Mothers womb for the apostleship and to be called by Grace Gal 1:


15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

And that is how it is with all the chosen of God, before in time God calls them by His Grace to fulfill their purpose in Christ..

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

Therefore, to say wicked people are justified in their wickedness, as you do, is abomination.

Thats according to your religion.. In mine:

Thats correct, the elect, even while they are enemies of God by nature, they have been reconciled [put in favor] to God by the death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we [God's elect] were enemies, we were [past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So then they were not condemned when they were enemies as the non elect are..

 

[Jozinky]

joz:
>> Originally Posted by Jozinky Greetings;

So you believe the elect are conceived and born justified?

Jozinky


Thats correct, the elect, even while they are enemies of God by nature, they have been reconciled [put in favor] to God by the death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we [God's elect] were enemies, we were [past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So then they were not condemned when they were enemies as the non elect are..

joz:



Thats according to your religion.. In mine:

Thats correct, the elect, even while they are enemies of God by nature, they have been reconciled [put in favor] to God by the death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we [God's elect] were enemies, we were [past tense] reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So then they were not condemned when they were enemies as the non elect are..

No--... It's according to God's religion in the Scriptures. Before salvation -all- men are unjustified and under condemnation; John 3 and 1Cor 6:9-11 are clear on that. Your eternal justification/born righteous is false doctrine.

Psalm 58:The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

But you don't believe the elect are ever wicked... do you? Paul was Righteous while he was murdering Christians... right?

Jozinky

 

[savedbygrace57]

joz:

No--... It's according to God's religion in the Scriptures.

I have nothing to do with your religion or your god..

The God I serve, While we were enemies to Him by nature, we were reconciled to Him by the Death of His Son rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.