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Hitch
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Not from where you're heads at
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Not from where you're heads at
I am witnessing of a different Christ than you are..
Jozinky
Member
There is absolutely no doubt about that friend. You -are- witnessissing a different Christ. A False christ that's not found in the Bible.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Thou are antichrist!!
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz:
Thats right, and a different one from the one you witness about..
Thats right, and a different one from the one you witness about..
Jozinky
Member
Absolutely! Your jesus is not found in the Bible. Therefore you witness to a false jesus. You didn't even attempt to address Galatians 3 and 1Peter 3:17 which easily exposes your false doctrine, except to throw rocks and deny the Scriptures.
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz:
Not in the bible of your imagination, thats correct..
Not in the bible of your imagination, thats correct..
Jozinky
Member
[SIZE=+1]Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] One is Justified by a Proper Biblical Faith which is directed toward a Proper Biblical Object.
If one is justified --BY-- faith then justification cannot be the "cause" of faith. Such a notion is absurd.
Proper Biblical faith is unto salvation and shows itself by the results; repentance and good works. Otherwise, faith without works is dead. The proper Biblical Object is of course the Lord Jesus Christ of Scripture. Not just ~any~ Christ but the One presented to us in Scripture, who came to save His people, all that the Father has given to Him, and them only, from their sins... and He actually saved every last one of us by His Atoning death for our sins. Any other Jesus is another Jesus that cannot save.
Now... the verse says... "Therefore, having been justified [or, declared righteous, same thing] by ~~faith~~! we have peace with God". And without Faith there is -no- Justification! [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] Faith and Justification are cemented together and what God has joined let not man put asunder! Where there is Faith there is Justification and where there is no Faith there is No Justification.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] There's a squad out there who claim two great heresies... [what heresie is ever 'great?]. 1 is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] from eternity & the other is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] at the cross. Both deny [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the great historical orthodox Christian doctrine of Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by Faith. But people cannot have faith before they are born, which wipes out [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] from eternity and neither can they have faith at the cross unless they were there and that wipes out [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] at the cross.
Objection; All the elect -were- there at the cross in the Person of the Lord Jesus.
Answer; Of course they were by reason of the truth of Federal Headship. All the elect were "in Christ" at the cross. They were also "in Christ" in eternity, again by Federal Headship Representation. But they were certainly in no position to exercise Faith either in eternity or at the cross and apart from Faith there is no Justification. The elect were also "in Adam" when he sinned. All these are a reference to one's ~Objective Legal~ standing. But [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= has nothing to do with one's objective legal standing. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The fact that the elect were "in Christ" at the cross no more means that they were Justified at the cross than it means they were Regenerate at the cross. Such notions are Biblically absurd. One who has not yet been born can be neither Justified nor Regenerate because he is in no position to Believe the Gospel. He's neither saved nor lost. He doesn't even exist. Neither can a person exercize Faith -at the cross- unless he is physically present there and apart from Faith there is no Justification. Therefore, Justification by Faith is addressing one's Actual, Practical, Historical, Subjective standing in time.
Objection 2; If one who is not yet born not saved then how is it that the cross saves?
Answer; There are two major phases of salvation that must be kept in mind. They are;
Redemption Accomplished.
Redemption Applied.
If these two elements are not kept separate the result will only be confusion and false doctrine. Christ fully and completely Accomplished salvation by His death. In that regard, when he died all the elect were, at that point in time, completely saved. They were saved Legally... but not Practically/Historically in their lifetime. For that to occur the blessings of salvation need to be Applied to each and every one of the elect in their individual lifetime and God does that by way of the Gospel and the elect ~Believing~ that Gospel and upon such belief the Blessings purchased by Christ for them on the Cross are effectually Applied including the blessing of Justification. It is when a person Believes God that God declares that person Justified... and not before! That's what [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= means folks. Any other view is False Doctrine.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] People who hold to eternal [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] must believe that all the elect are already justified before they are ever regenerate. But if they are [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justified [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] apart from faith are they pleasing to God? Same thing for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification at the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cross. If the elect were [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justified [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]at the cross then that means all before the cross were not Justified. They were saved, and even pleased God but they were not Justified. Yet Scripture says in Gen_15:6 that Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for Righteousness, which is another way of saying Abraham was Justified the moment he exercized his God-given faith. In fact that's where Paul got Rom_4:3 from. And the Scripture also says that without Faith it is impossible to please Him! Heb_11:6. So were all these people who were unjustified before the cross regenerate? And were they pleasing to God? And were all those people who were Justified in eternity born regenerate? Or were they born Justified Unregenerates before they had Faith? And did these people please God? The Scriptures say that Abraham BELIEVED God and upon his believing he was justified & imputed with God's Righteousness. Moreover the Scriptures say that Enoch, who was thousands of years before the cross, ~Pleased God~. Heb_11:5. That means, according to verse 6 that Enoch had Biblical Faith, which can only mean that Enoch was Justified before the cross because the Bible declares in no uncertain terms that men are Justified by FAITH. If he or Abraham, or any OT saint wasn't Justified until the cross then these vss make no sense.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification is the activity of God whereby He says something about a person. It is God -declaring- a person to be Righteous. The question then is... When does God make such a declaration? The answer, according to the Bible ladies & gentlemen is, when a person believes the Gospel. Since Abraham is the key figure in the Scriptures the following shows this point.
Several passages of Scripture show Abraham being Justified by faith such as;
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled, saying, "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted for righteousness to him;" and he was called, Friend of God.
Now the question is, when was Abraham justified by faith? Gen 15:6 is the first place we find the statement but it is evident that Abraham was saved well before that time. By comparing Scripture with Scripture we are able to discover the answer to When. First we look at Galatians chapter 3...
5 Then He supplying the Spirit to you and working works of power in you, is it by works of law or by hearing of faith?
6 Even "as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
Here Paul cites Genesis 15:6. But then he goes on to say...
7 Know, then, that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel before to Abraham: "All the nations will be blessed" "in you."
So here Paul takes the statement found in Genesis 15:6 and applies it to
Genesis 12:3 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]and I will bless them that bless you, and him that curses you will I curse: and in you shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]..and says that that was when the Gospel was preached to Abraham and by it he was justified. Therefore, Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 12 and not in eternity or at the cross. The cross is the ground or basis on which God justifies any sinner and faith is the means God uses.
Jozinky
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] One is Justified by a Proper Biblical Faith which is directed toward a Proper Biblical Object.
If one is justified --BY-- faith then justification cannot be the "cause" of faith. Such a notion is absurd.
Proper Biblical faith is unto salvation and shows itself by the results; repentance and good works. Otherwise, faith without works is dead. The proper Biblical Object is of course the Lord Jesus Christ of Scripture. Not just ~any~ Christ but the One presented to us in Scripture, who came to save His people, all that the Father has given to Him, and them only, from their sins... and He actually saved every last one of us by His Atoning death for our sins. Any other Jesus is another Jesus that cannot save.
Now... the verse says... "Therefore, having been justified [or, declared righteous, same thing] by ~~faith~~! we have peace with God". And without Faith there is -no- Justification! [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] Faith and Justification are cemented together and what God has joined let not man put asunder! Where there is Faith there is Justification and where there is no Faith there is No Justification.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] There's a squad out there who claim two great heresies... [what heresie is ever 'great?]. 1 is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] from eternity & the other is [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] at the cross. Both deny [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] the great historical orthodox Christian doctrine of Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] by Faith. But people cannot have faith before they are born, which wipes out [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] from eternity and neither can they have faith at the cross unless they were there and that wipes out [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] at the cross.
Objection; All the elect -were- there at the cross in the Person of the Lord Jesus.
Answer; Of course they were by reason of the truth of Federal Headship. All the elect were "in Christ" at the cross. They were also "in Christ" in eternity, again by Federal Headship Representation. But they were certainly in no position to exercise Faith either in eternity or at the cross and apart from Faith there is no Justification. The elect were also "in Adam" when he sinned. All these are a reference to one's ~Objective Legal~ standing. But [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= has nothing to do with one's objective legal standing. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] The fact that the elect were "in Christ" at the cross no more means that they were Justified at the cross than it means they were Regenerate at the cross. Such notions are Biblically absurd. One who has not yet been born can be neither Justified nor Regenerate because he is in no position to Believe the Gospel. He's neither saved nor lost. He doesn't even exist. Neither can a person exercize Faith -at the cross- unless he is physically present there and apart from Faith there is no Justification. Therefore, Justification by Faith is addressing one's Actual, Practical, Historical, Subjective standing in time.
Objection 2; If one who is not yet born not saved then how is it that the cross saves?
Answer; There are two major phases of salvation that must be kept in mind. They are;
Redemption Accomplished.
Redemption Applied.
If these two elements are not kept separate the result will only be confusion and false doctrine. Christ fully and completely Accomplished salvation by His death. In that regard, when he died all the elect were, at that point in time, completely saved. They were saved Legally... but not Practically/Historically in their lifetime. For that to occur the blessings of salvation need to be Applied to each and every one of the elect in their individual lifetime and God does that by way of the Gospel and the elect ~Believing~ that Gospel and upon such belief the Blessings purchased by Christ for them on the Cross are effectually Applied including the blessing of Justification. It is when a person Believes God that God declares that person Justified... and not before! That's what [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= means folks. Any other view is False Doctrine.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] People who hold to eternal [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] must believe that all the elect are already justified before they are ever regenerate. But if they are [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justified [/SIZE][SIZE=+1] apart from faith are they pleasing to God? Same thing for [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification at the [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]cross. If the elect were [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justified [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]at the cross then that means all before the cross were not Justified. They were saved, and even pleased God but they were not Justified. Yet Scripture says in Gen_15:6 that Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for Righteousness, which is another way of saying Abraham was Justified the moment he exercized his God-given faith. In fact that's where Paul got Rom_4:3 from. And the Scripture also says that without Faith it is impossible to please Him! Heb_11:6. So were all these people who were unjustified before the cross regenerate? And were they pleasing to God? And were all those people who were Justified in eternity born regenerate? Or were they born Justified Unregenerates before they had Faith? And did these people please God? The Scriptures say that Abraham BELIEVED God and upon his believing he was justified & imputed with God's Righteousness. Moreover the Scriptures say that Enoch, who was thousands of years before the cross, ~Pleased God~. Heb_11:5. That means, according to verse 6 that Enoch had Biblical Faith, which can only mean that Enoch was Justified before the cross because the Bible declares in no uncertain terms that men are Justified by FAITH. If he or Abraham, or any OT saint wasn't Justified until the cross then these vss make no sense.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification is the activity of God whereby He says something about a person. It is God -declaring- a person to be Righteous. The question then is... When does God make such a declaration? The answer, according to the Bible ladies & gentlemen is, when a person believes the Gospel. Since Abraham is the key figure in the Scriptures the following shows this point.
Several passages of Scripture show Abraham being Justified by faith such as;
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled, saying, "And Abraham believed God, and it was counted for righteousness to him;" and he was called, Friend of God.
Now the question is, when was Abraham justified by faith? Gen 15:6 is the first place we find the statement but it is evident that Abraham was saved well before that time. By comparing Scripture with Scripture we are able to discover the answer to When. First we look at Galatians chapter 3...
5 Then He supplying the Spirit to you and working works of power in you, is it by works of law or by hearing of faith?
6 Even "as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness."
Here Paul cites Genesis 15:6. But then he goes on to say...
7 Know, then, that those of faith, these are sons of Abraham.
8 And the Scripture foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel before to Abraham: "All the nations will be blessed" "in you."
So here Paul takes the statement found in Genesis 15:6 and applies it to
Genesis 12:3 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]and I will bless them that bless you, and him that curses you will I curse: and in you shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]..and says that that was when the Gospel was preached to Abraham and by it he was justified. Therefore, Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 12 and not in eternity or at the cross. The cross is the ground or basis on which God justifies any sinner and faith is the means God uses.
Jozinky
[/SIZE]
Jozinky
Member
One slight correct on my part. I said...
[SIZE=+1]But [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= has nothing to do with one's objective legal standing.
This is incorrect. it is precisely one's [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]objective legal standing that Justification by faith addresses. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I meant to say....
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]It is the doctrine of [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing.[/SIZE]
Jozinky
[SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]But [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= has nothing to do with one's objective legal standing.
This is incorrect. it is precisely one's [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]objective legal standing that Justification by faith addresses. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]I meant to say....
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]It is the doctrine of [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing.[/SIZE]
Jozinky
[SIZE=+1]
[/SIZE]
Possibly the Lord will forgive your ignorance because speaking evil of the Spirit of God is an unforgivable sin. A little scripture for you,"he that thinks he stands take head lest he fall".
Sinthesis
Member
Now you have Jesus dying only for those who never needed God's grace anyway because they were NEVER under the curse of original sin, much less held accountable for the myriad of sins all humans accumulate.
So Jesus died a needless death, for all the 'special' people were never condemned to begin with?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Now you have Jesus dying only for those who never needed God's grace anyway because they were NEVER under the curse of original sin, much less held accountable for the myriad of sins all humans accumulate.
So Jesus died a needless death, for all the 'special' people were never condemned to begin with?
The elect needed grace to be delivered from a sinful condition, but they were never legally condemned by God. God did not lay any charges of their sins upon them, but upon Christ and condemned Christ for their sins rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith receives what has already been True with God. Faith gives assurance and evidence to the sinner that they are Justified before God based upon Christ work on their behalf..
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky said;[SIZE=+1]It is the doctrine of [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing.[/SIZE]
Justification by Faith is a -declaration- by God that a person is Justified. It has -Nothing to Do- with "receiving" anything!
Like I said, It is the doctrine of Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing. Proof...
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
1Pe 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; ASV
This verse clearly demonstrates that Christ died for -Unjust- / -Unrighteous- people. That's what was "already true" of them. When these people hear and believe the Gospel then, at that point in time when they exercise =Faith= God Declares them to be Just / Righteous. They don't "receive" anything. They simply believe God and he then declares them Justified.
That's what Justification by Faith means. Before Faith they are Unjust / Unrighteous so it was Not "already true" that they were justified.
Jozinky
Justification by Faith is a -declaration- by God that a person is Justified. It has -Nothing to Do- with "receiving" anything!
Like I said, It is the doctrine of Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing. Proof...
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
1Pe 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; ASV
This verse clearly demonstrates that Christ died for -Unjust- / -Unrighteous- people. That's what was "already true" of them. When these people hear and believe the Gospel then, at that point in time when they exercise =Faith= God Declares them to be Just / Righteous. They don't "receive" anything. They simply believe God and he then declares them Justified.
That's what Justification by Faith means. Before Faith they are Unjust / Unrighteous so it was Not "already true" that they were justified.
Jozinky
Jozinky
Member
Well yes that is exactly what Messiah said in the verse. Read it again. Jesus said a man is condemned =because= he has not believed. Yet you have it backwards... notice;
... Which is backwards. Jesus said a man is condemned =because= he has not believed. You say; "this scripture is actually informing us as to why one does not believe on Christ, and that reason is because they are condemned already."
Jesus; Condemned because he does not believe.
SBG; Does not believe because condemned.
Which one spoke truth folks?! I'll say one thing; SBG is right when he says "this is perhaps one of the most misunderstood scriptures in the New Testament, as well as being one of the most twisted,"... and he is one of the twisters!
Jozinky
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
joz:
If you could notice, the unbeliever was condemned already, and thats why he could not believe, not believing gives evidence to his or her condemned already state..
If you could notice, the unbeliever was condemned already, and thats why he could not believe, not believing gives evidence to his or her condemned already state..
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Faith receives what has already been True with God. Faith gives assurance and evidence to the sinner that they are Justified before God based upon Christ work on their behalf..
Jozinky
Member
LOL If -you- could notice you ~Still~ have it backwards.. 18 He that believes on him is not condemned: he that believes not hath been condemned already, [... Why???] ~~~because~~~ he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
First of all it nowhere says that he -could not- believe. That's your own addition which alone is enough to make people cautious. On what ground do you add to the word of God friend?
Jesus said he is condemned already ~because~ he has not believed.
You say the exact opposite... that he ""could not"" believe, [which the verse does NOT say]... ~because~ he was condemned. Your "because" is in the wrong place which makes you read it backwards. You're going in the wrong direction.
People who travel in the wrong direction are bound to crash! :help
Jozinky
Jozinky
Member
Jozinky said;Justification by Faith is a -declaration- by God that a person is Justified. It has -Nothing to Do- with "receiving" anything!
Like I said, It is the doctrine of Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing. Proof...
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
1Pe 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; ASV
This verse clearly demonstrates that Christ died for -Unjust- / -Unrighteous- people. That's what was "already true" of them. When these people hear and believe the Gospel then, at that point in time when they exercise =Faith= God Declares them to be Just / Righteous. They don't "receive" anything. They simply believe God and he then declares them Justified.
That's what Justification by Faith means. Before Faith they are Unjust / Unrighteous so it was Not "already true" that they were justified.
Jozinky
So what>? 1Peter 3:18 along with 1Cor 6:10ff.. still proves they were not yet justified until they heard & believed the Gospel and that's the point which refutes your false doctrine.
Jozinky
Like I said, It is the doctrine of Justification by =Faith= that ~Changes~ one's objective legal standing. Proof...
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: KJV
1Pe 3:18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; ASV
This verse clearly demonstrates that Christ died for -Unjust- / -Unrighteous- people. That's what was "already true" of them. When these people hear and believe the Gospel then, at that point in time when they exercise =Faith= God Declares them to be Just / Righteous. They don't "receive" anything. They simply believe God and he then declares them Justified.
That's what Justification by Faith means. Before Faith they are Unjust / Unrighteous so it was Not "already true" that they were justified.
Jozinky
So what>? 1Peter 3:18 along with 1Cor 6:10ff.. still proves they were not yet justified until they heard & believed the Gospel and that's the point which refutes your false doctrine.
Jozinky
Jozinky
Member
John 3:18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Any logic student can plainly see that this verse employs a Universal and may be stated in this way;
All [that's the universal] who do not believe are condemned.
That's a valid propositional statement that can be drawn from the verse and is true. Now we can construct a syllogism that shows that the elect are under condemnation while they are in their unbelief.
All who do not believe are under condemnation;
The elect are those who, before they are saved, do not believe' Therefore;
The elect are, before they believe, under condemnation.
That folks is a valid syllogism and based on the rules of logic cannot be false.
Therefore to say that the elect were never under condemnation... or never under the wrath of God [vs 36] is false, anti-biblical doctrine.
Jozinky
Any logic student can plainly see that this verse employs a Universal and may be stated in this way;
All [that's the universal] who do not believe are condemned.
That's a valid propositional statement that can be drawn from the verse and is true. Now we can construct a syllogism that shows that the elect are under condemnation while they are in their unbelief.
All who do not believe are under condemnation;
The elect are those who, before they are saved, do not believe' Therefore;
The elect are, before they believe, under condemnation.
That folks is a valid syllogism and based on the rules of logic cannot be false.
Therefore to say that the elect were never under condemnation... or never under the wrath of God [vs 36] is false, anti-biblical doctrine.
Jozinky