Conversation With a Theistic Satanist

[archangel_300]

Something a bit more nuanced than that.

According to the bible Satan loses. Why cheer for the loosing team?

I think what satanictemple is trying to say is that you can't trust the God of the Bible because he can potentially be a liar. From his perspective both the devil and the God of the Bible are "gods" and are equally powerful.

 

[happyjoy]

Something a bit more nuanced than that.

According to the bible Satan loses. Why cheer for the loosing team?

I think what satanictemple is trying to say is that you can't trust the God of the Bible because he can potentially be a liar. From his perspective both the devil and the God of the Bible are "gods" and are equally powerful.

Then why didn't Satan write his own bible?

 

[Mike]

Then why didn't Satan write his own bible?

This is what I was getting at here:

Adding to my thoughts, "if" Satan is an equal god to our God, and since you believe the Bible is authentic (correct me if I'm wrong), it would seem that he would make his own revelation known through word to defend him. Because I fail to see where you would draw the conclusion that he has your best interest at heart, given what we know of him in scripture. To put your hope in him on the basis that he persuades us to follow him in order to be like God, seems like a wild gamble with eternity.

 

[Mike]

Looks like the OP has checked out for the night. I will too, as it's late here in Michigan.

nighty-night!

 

[Guest]

Just so we understand each other here, it might be important to note that happyjoy is not a "biblical Christian". That isn't an insult here, happyjoy. I'm just saying you personally disagree with fundamental Christians on a lot of points.

You appear to have honest intentions, and will go with that until I see otherwise. In keeping with that, I believe an overall rule of this site is that you don't attempt to persuade Christians of false non-Christian doctrine. That might be a hard line for you to follow.

Although you obviously see a lot of conflict with the Christian God, there must be some degree of Love that you see in Him, even if it's outweighed by your perception of His intentions.

Was there a person, or group that counseled you in arriving at the conclusion that Satan has your best care in his purpose?

There is some degree of love (or maybe not love, but at least concern) if every non-sociopathic being. Try hard as I did, I could not find that in Yahweh. I'm not sure how to write about how I feel about Yahweh without breaking the rules of this forum.

There was no group or person that counseled me into theistic Satanism, though Diane Vera's website and information were helpful.

 

[Guest]

First, if the moderators wish to remove my link, I will not object. I am a guest here.

I grew up in the Free Will Baptist tradition, and graduated with a Bachelors from a Bible college in New Orleans. I tried for all of my adolescent and teenage years to believe that the Yahweh/Christ/Holy Spirit deity (or Trinity, if you prefer) was a loving, merciful god. The more I read of scripture, the less I was able to believe this. In fact, the serpent character of the opening two chapters of Genesis presented as the kind of god I was drawn to. Whereas Yahweh/Elohim wanted to limit human potential, I saw Satan as desiring unlimited human potential and freedom.

After getting divorced at the age of 23, I labeled myself as atheist for a few years, but I always knew there was a greater power beyond myself. I came to recognize this power as Satan, and have since worshiped Him.

That's the thing that confuses me.
If you say you went to atheism and then believed in a greater power do you really believe the Bible is divine in origin? I used to grow up being taught that the Bible is God's word and I really tried to believe but something just didn't do it for me until I saw this for myself. When I came to believe the Bible was divine in origin there is now no way I can go back to unbelief now and in the future. It's completely impossible...

For me, divine does not necessarily imply good, or having the best interest of lower creatures at heart. It simply means divine.

 

[Guest]

Just so we understand each other here, it might be important to note that happyjoy is not a "biblical Christian". That isn't an insult here, happyjoy. I'm just saying you personally disagree with fundamental Christians on a lot of points.

You appear to have honest intentions, and will go with that until I see otherwise. In keeping with that, I believe an overall rule of this site is that you don't attempt to persuade Christians of false non-Christian doctrine. That might be a hard line for you to follow.

Although you obviously see a lot of conflict with the Christian God, there must be some degree of Love that you see in Him, even if it's outweighed by your perception of His intentions.

Was there a person, or group that counseled you in arriving at the conclusion that Satan has your best care in his purpose?

Adding to my thoughts, "if" Satan is an equal god to our God, and since you believe the Bible is authentic (correct me if I'm wrong), it would seem that he would make his own revelation known through word to defend him. Because I fail to see where you would draw the conclusion that he has your best interest at heart, given what we know of him in scripture. To put your hope in him on the basis that he persuades us to follow him in order to be like God, seems like a wild gamble with eternity.

Given what we know of Satan in scripture: (1) He never harmed a person (I do not consider the adversary in Job to be Satan); (2) He wants humans to be all they can possibly be; (3) He struggles over a deity who wants to control everything completely.

I believe Satan never "revealed" a written scripture precisely because he does not want to be an in-your-face kind of deity. Rather, He desires that His children come to know Him of their own volition.

 

[Guest]

Something a bit more nuanced than that.

According to the bible Satan loses. Why cheer for the loosing team?

The battle still rages.

 

[Guest]

Something a bit more nuanced than that.

According to the bible Satan loses. Why cheer for the loosing team?

I think what satanictemple is trying to say is that you can't trust the God of the Bible because he can potentially be a liar. From his perspective both the devil and the God of the Bible are "gods" and are equally powerful.

That's exactly right, and I'm betting on Satan, whereas Christians are betting (or hoping) on Yahweh.

 

[happyjoy]

Something a bit more nuanced than that.

According to the bible Satan loses. Why cheer for the loosing team?

The battle still rages.

I understand that, but we already know what the outcome will be. I don't know if you have seen the show lost, but what happens, happens.

 

[archangel_300]

I think what satanictemple is trying to say is that you can't trust the God of the Bible because he can potentially be a liar. From his perspective both the devil and the God of the Bible are "gods" and are equally powerful.

That's exactly right, and I'm betting on Satan, whereas Christians are betting (or hoping) on Yahweh.

Your god loses because he doesn't reveal himself to humanity the way the Holy God does. This means he is not equally powerful. He doesn't have written word while the Bible is ours. Is he not capable of writing and revealing himself to humanity the way our God does? Is he not capable of showing us he can walk on water? Surely it would be a simple task to defy the laws of physics wouldn't it?

Your god does not demonstrate that he loves mankind by taking the form of a human being and dying on the cross for us. Your god never humbles himself in this way and acts as our servant. Your god is only into himself and for himself.

Your god never died on the Jewish Passover day showing he was the fulfillment of the passover lamb which was slain in the Old Testament so that we may escape eternal death. Our God shows he controls the events of time. Your god never demonstrates anything like this.

So if I were to bank on it I believe our God is greater and far more powerful and yours loses in the end.

But what if your god is trying to deceive you into believing he is a god when he is not?
What if he will bring you to the doors of eternal damnation? What will you do then if indeed you are wrong?

 

[Packrat]

The battle still rages.

This quote along with the preceding

I believe Satan never "revealed" a written scripture precisely because he does not want to be an in-your-face kind of deity. Rather, He desires that His children come to know Him of their own volition.

doesn't quite make sense from the Biblical perspective of Satan. From the Biblical perspective of Satan he uses those of God's creation that will follow him as pawns and nothing more. He also constantly hurls accusations to God against those who are not his children. Now, I know that you've said you don't fully believe the Biblical account of Satan, but that is the Satan we know. And I would assume that you would join us in our position against such a figure. From your point of view I could not condemn your Satan because I do not know of him. The only Satan I know of is the one depicted in the Bible, and I completely disagree with that Satan. So before we continue our discussion further it might be best to "know our enemy." That goes for you as well as it does for me.

The Satan I know of is beautiful only in appearance, powerful, cunning without wisdom and ultimately proud, insubordinate, vengeful, self-interested, deceptive and quarrelsome. If you preach a different Satan then I can only say that I have already accepted someone as God and Master. The God I know is beautiful in appearance and deed, proud, deliberate, honest, strict but forgiving, just, merciful, greater in power, self-sacrificing, loving, cunning and wise. Whatever he's asked of others he's followed through with, himself, even to the point of physical death, forsaking family and being betrayed by friends. Though he would be well within his rights to destroy all life that he has created on a whim, he chooses to nourish such a relationship with us so as to allow us to be his bride. All creatures need his consent to do the slightest things and all are answerable to him as their Master, including the angel that is Satan.

In my opinion this spiritual war is not as much a war as it is an example for all who disobey God, for God has at heart what is best for all his creation. If we depart from his will we have done so because we have chosen what is not in our best interest. Consider Adam and Eve. Certainly creation was good, but the moment they sinned they distanced themselves from God's protection by rejecting him. Subsequently they were left to fend for themselves against the elements of this universe, the Adversary (i.e. the literal translation of Satan) and even one-another. Consider this: you are floating out in space in a bubble of divine protection. Once you reject that bubble your well-formed, nourished body will implode, instantly freezing on one side while being broiled to a crisp by radiation on the other side as high speed particles embed themselves into your mangled corpse. There would be nothing intrinsically wrong with such a universe except for the falling away from God's protection.

As the Bible says, God wants those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. I believe he allows us to choose for ourselves whom we will worship and then allows us to experience the consequences or benefits of our actions in this life. Ultimately he will destroy all those who oppose him because such an act is self-destructive and encourages self-destructive tendencies in others, seeing how he is the one who protects and sustains all things.

 

[archangel_300]

Satanictemple, there has never been any evidence, written or otherwise that shows your god demonstrates he can defy the laws of physics and nature. Surely this would be an easy task if your god was equal with our God?

Your god never shows that he is trying to protect us from *himself* nor does he show he wants to protect us from the God of the Bible. Therefore your god doesn't care about you.

 

[Guest]

The battle still rages.

I understand that, but we already know what the outcome will be. I don't know if you have seen the show lost, but what happens, happens.

[/quote]

And this is where I disagree with most here. We know there will be a final battle, but we differ on what the outcome will be.

 

[happyjoy]

The battle still rages.

I understand that, but we already know what the outcome will be. I don't know if you have seen the show lost, but what happens, happens.

And this is where I disagree with most here. We know there will be a final battle, but we differ on what the outcome will be.[/quote]

Why do you disagree with what the bible says about the final outcome, but accept other things.

 

[Guest]

Why do you disagree with what the bible says about the final outcome, but accept other things.

As I alluded to before, I take character references fairly literally, but not historical or scientific facts. The same is true for so-called prophecy. In my opinion, of course the Bible would say Yahweh is going to win, because it was written by Yahweh-believers. Also, if we're talking here about the book of Revelation, there's no consensus that what is written there has anything to do with the future anyway. Some very conservative Bible scholars believe the book of Revelation is about Nero and the Roman Empire at the time it was written.

 

[happyjoy]

Why do you disagree with what the bible says about the final outcome, but accept other things.

As I alluded to before, I take character references fairly literally, but not historical or scientific facts. The same is true for so-called prophecy. In my opinion, of course the Bible would say Yahweh is going to win, because it was written by Yahweh-believers. Also, if we're talking here about the book of Revelation, there's no consensus that what is written there has anything to do with the future anyway. Some very conservative Bible scholars believe the book of Revelation is about Nero and the Roman Empire at the time it was written.

You believe character references fairly literally, but not historical or scientific facts. That is a very odd way to view things. Why take anything literally? Are you just looking to be angry about something?

Well you will find many people to willingly worship a malevolent God here. Not everyone mind you, but a good population of people who take glee and can't wait to sit in heaven and point and laugh at the multitude who suffer endlessly in hell. Some of these people have positions of power, and will not allow moderate Christian viewpoints to be heard.

I content that both theirs and your viewpoint of the character of God is way off base. I have faith in a benevolent, not malevolent God.

 

[ronniechoate34]

A satanist? I would've had some sympathy in another time and another place for a satanist, but not anymore. You've heard the gospel and you've rejected it. Perhaps someday God will grant you the freedom that you desperately need, then there will be peace with God for you. I do pray that happens for you soon.


Until then I'll give you something to think about, and I'll dwell on this scripture myself because I'm not without need.


Isa:5:20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[Guest]

You believe character references fairly literally, but not historical or scientific facts. That is a very odd way to view things. Why take anything literally? Are you just looking to be angry about something?

Well you will find many people to willingly worship a malevolent God here. Not everyone mind you, but a good population of people who take glee and can't wait to sit in heaven and point and laugh at the multitude who suffer endlessly in hell. Some of these people have positions of power, and will not allow moderate Christian viewpoints to be heard.

I content that both theirs and your viewpoint of the character of God is way off base. I have faith in a benevolent, not malevolent God.

My anger has nothing to do with trying to find something to be angry about, and is probably better understood as hate than anger. I hate Yahweh, because I consider him to be the god attempting to keep humanity down, but this is an anger stemming from my love for Satan. This hate does not, however make me a miserable person. Quite the contrary: I've never been happier than I am as a devotee of Satan.

I am afraid our understandings of literal truth may be a bit different. I think most of the character references for deity in scripture are based on interactions between said deities and humans. The descriptions may be more or less colorful, but I think they are based on fact. It is also important to understand that Yahweh will be colored in a better light than Satan, since the book concerns Yahweh worship.

 

[archangel_300]

Satanic temple,

Clearly your god is hypocritical because your god preaches "don't turn the other
cheek" and that's exactly what he does. He doesn't defend himself when the God of the
Bible slanders him through His divine Word. Surely we should see more of a struggle
on your gods part if he truly were a god and if he did not turn the other cheek?

Our God is completely good and righteous. This means no sin that ever comes into
existence goes unpunished by God Almighty. Our God renders "eye for eye tooth for
tooth" justice. You see when Christ died on the cross not only did he suffer from the
nail marks on his hands but he also suffered under Gods wrath for every single sin of
those whom he loved. If I am a believer in Christ then it also means that Christ
suffered as my perfect subsitute for *every* single sin I would commit in my life from
birth to death. When God Almighty comes to judge mankind there will be no
condemnation because my sins have already been paid for. Christ rose from the dead proving that my sins have been completely paid for.

How come your god doesn't do the same if he preaches "do unto others as they have done
unto you?" Does your god even care about you?

How come your god doesn't rise Anton Levay from the dead? There is no recorded
evidence that he can do the same thing our God does. Surely this would be an easy
thing for him to do if he was a god?

Again is your god trying to deceive you into thinking he is a god when he is not?
Is your god really a god?