Cornelius Converted

[Theofilus]

Ninety years later the church officially deposed the sun god

So, for 90 years the church was worshipping the sun god??? Are you sure about that?

totopic

Actually, I was on topic. Cyberseeker linked to that site to support the theory that the Jerusalem council was in 50 AD. I checked it out to see whether it was a reliable site. Since I know a bit about the history of Christmas, that's what I checked first to see how reliable and well researched their information is. This conflict in dates (and it is a conflict, whether or not you want to admit it) is enough to convince me that it's not very reliable. It's not about Christmas, it's about the reliability of the site. Christmas just happens to be the subject of the article where I found that. If the confusion of dates doesn't convince you that their research isn't very good, maybe this statement from the same article will.

The word "Christmas" comes from "Christ's mass," and the Roman Catholic church and most Protestant denominations observe Christmas after sundown on the 24th of December. Some Eastern Orthodox Church(s) practice it on January 6th, combining the day with Epiphany.

Combining the day with Epiphany? Really? That sounds like they celebrate Christmas and Epiphany on the same day. The Wikipedia article on Epiphany says:

It falls on 6 January or, in many countries, on the Sunday that falls between 2 January and 8 January. Since the Julian Calendar, which is followed by some Eastern Churches, is at present 13 days behind the Gregorian Calendar and the revised Julian Calendar, 6 January in that calendar corresponds at present to 19 January in what is the official civil calendar in most countries.

They celebrate Epiphany on January 19 according to our calendar. They don't combine anything. I'm sure I could find more inaccuracies if I took the time. The point I'm trying to make is that that site isn't very reliable. Can anyone show me a reliable site with verifiable evidence showing that the Jerusalem council was in 50 AD? If you can't show any real evidence, then all you have to go on is tradition. While tradition can be useful in many ways, it's not what you want to base your doctrines on.

 

[NJBeliever]

It doesn't matter if you're preterist, historicist or partial to either: There is just no way mathematically you can get from Jesus being cut off at ca 33AD to 70 AD and call that the "70th week". What accounts for the missing 37 years?? 70 AD cannot be the the middle of the 70th week in Daniel's prophecy if the 69th week ended almost 40 years earlier.

 

[Vic C.]

The reason for that is because in Messianic Prophecy, that time span between Jesus' crucifixion and 70 AD is a parenthesis in the Daniel vision. Meaning, it is outside (not part of) the prophecy. All but 3 1/2 years of it anyway.

All Christians should know this > For all Godly intent and purposes, Jesus' death made sacrifices null and void. But because there still was a physical Temple, the un-repented and non-believing Jews kept up their fruitless Temple sacrifices until God finally (once and for all, as far as I'm concerned) destroyed the Temple.

Using the most acceptable dating, Jesus was baptized in AD 27 and cut off in AD 30. AD 33 would be about the time Stephen was stoned and the Gospel offered up to Cornelius and the time he was converted. That is the time the covenant was taken from the Jews and offered to the Gentiles.

From 27 AD to 30 AD is where we find Jesus' active ministry to the Jews. Jesus was cut off in 30 AD. From 30 AD the Apostles still witnessed to the Jews until the time of Stephen and Cornelius.

Total time; seven years.

 

[moscowbob]

Hello All, Good topic, I was researching this exact same point and stumbled on this thread, hope it can help.
http://www.xenos.org/classes/chronop.htm

 

[Sinthesis]

The reason for that is because in Messianic Prophecy, that time span between Jesus' crucifixion and 70 AD is a parenthesis in the Daniel vision. Meaning, it is outside (not part of) the prophecy. All but 3 1/2 years of it anyway.

The time span between Jesus' crucifixion and 70AD is in the Daniel 9 vision, but 37yrs beyond (yet within a generation) the 70wks.

 

[Vic C.]

The reason for that is because in Messianic Prophecy, that time span between Jesus' crucifixion and 70 AD is a parenthesis in the Daniel vision. Meaning, it is outside (not part of) the prophecy. All but 3 1/2 years of it anyway.

The time span between Jesus' crucifixion and 70AD is in the Daniel 9 vision, but 37yrs beyond (yet within a generation) the 70wks.

Never said it wasn't. You just posted what I did, in different words. :D

It's outside of the 70 weeks prophecy though:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Vic C.]

Hello All, Good topic, I was researching this exact same point and stumbled on this thread, hope it can help.
http://www.xenos.org/classes/chronop.htm

This doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand. Cornelius is never mentioned on that page.

But welcome to the site.

 

[moscowbob]

Hello All, Good topic, I was researching this exact same point and stumbled on this thread, hope it can help.
http://www.xenos.org/classes/chronop.htm

This doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand. Cornelius is never mentioned on that page.

But welcome to the site.

Thank you for the welcome.
I know this does not mention Cornelius, but it give a firm pegging date for the Jerusalem Council, which Theofilus was questioning.

From the site mentioned I quote
"Gallio (Acts l8:l2) The mention of Gallio as proconsul of Achaia offers the possibility of establishing a fixed point in the chronology of Paul's life. From that point, we can reckon forward and backward to establish the best times for all of the events mentioned. "


and again
"The Jerusalem Council-- This would indicate that the Jerusalem Council occurred in the winter of 48/49 A.D. (possibly Jan.- Feb. of 49 A.D.). Paul would have spent only a short time in Jerusalem, and then would have returned to Antioch with the news of the Council's decisions. "

 

[Cyberseeker]

I know this does not mention Cornelius, but it give a firm pegging date for the Jerusalem Council, which Theofilus was questioning.

Welcome Bob. Yes, the Delphi inscription pegs the Jerusalem Council. However I feel your article leans too far to AD48, AD49 being more accurate.

Then there is the matter of of the 17 years between Pauls conversion and the council. Some postulate that Paul's 3 years and his 14 years are concurrent. Not so; they are consecutive, a total of seventeen years. Hence St Paul's conversion would have been late AD32 / early AD33 with Cornelius' after that.

We have reason to believe that the gospel to the Gentiles was opened Sept/Oct AD33 and the Gallio information pegs the year at least. It would take too much time to prove the month so I think I will go paint my ceiling. ;)

Cyber

 

[moscowbob]

We have reason to believe that the gospel to the Gentiles was opened Sept/Oct AD33 and the Gallio information pegs the year at least. It would take too much time to prove the month so I think I will go paint my ceiling. ;)

Cyber

Thanks for the welcome Cyber.

As I am very "green" with these things, could you perhaps point me to reference information that I can read in order to see what you mean?

 

[Theofilus]

Hello All, Good topic, I was researching this exact same point and stumbled on this thread, hope it can help.
http://www.xenos.org/classes/chronop.htm

This is what I was asking for - a reliable way of determining the date of the council. That article comes to the conlusion that it was in the winter of 48-49 AD. However, from what I found on wikipedia about gallio, his term as proconsule was either 51-52 or 52-53 AD. Taking that into account, 50 AD is a plausible date for the council. If the other calculations are correct, then Paul could have been converted in 33 AD. But was Cornelius converted in the same year? What support is there for that?

 

[Cyberseeker]

… If the other calculations are correct, then Paul could have been converted in 33 AD. But was Cornelius converted in the same year? What support is there for that?

A fair question Theo. I’ve stuck my neck out and said he was converted Sep/Oct AD33. There are deductive reasons for claiming so but no independently verifiable data. Before explaining my (specific-date) reasoning I would first like to establish the nearby parameters.

1. Scattering following Stephens death - AD32 (Acts 8:1-4)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
2. Pauls conversion pegged at AD32/33 (Acts 9:1-19)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
3. Paul in Nabatea/Damascus AD33,34,35 (Acts 9:20-30)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
4. Cornelius’ conversion during this period. Late AD33 (Acts 10:1-11-18)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
5. The Antiochan revival recorded AD33 onward. (Acts 11:19-24)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
6. Paul moves to Cilicia/Tarsus AD36-AD49 (Galatians 1:21)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
7. Barnabus searches for Paul sometime after AD36. (Acts 11:25)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
8. Agabus prophesies sometime before AD41. (Acts 11:27-28)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
9. Reign of Claudius Caesar was AD41- AD54. (Acts 11:28)[/*:m:27vbrt96]
10. Council of Jerusalem was AD49/50 (Acts 15:2)[/*:m:27vbrt96]

Please notice how the book of Acts is written in natural sequential order. Bearing that in mind, it is becomes apparent the conversion of Cornelius was at the early end of AD33-35. Yes, I do believe it was Sep/Oct AD33 but this is enough to swallow for now.