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Bible Study Cotoversiaal

electedbyHim

Elected by Him
Calvinism Overseer
I understand that this forum is dominated by Catholic, Arminian, Pentecostal and Charismatics.

It is interesting that the woman on this forum try to dominate what they believe is truth and will defend it and will try to teach what they believe to others.

Especially those that believe that woman can Pastor and be teachers of men.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.
 
I understand that this forum is dominated by Catholic, Arminian, Pentecostal and Charismatics.

It is interesting that the woman on this forum try to dominate what they believe is truth and will defend it and will try to teach what they believe to others.

Especially those that believe that woman can Pastor and be teachers of men.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.
I understand your point but it's a grey area,and I don't believe in female elders
 
I understand that this forum is dominated by Catholic, Arminian, Pentecostal and Charismatics.

Is it? I had no idea...

It is interesting that the woman on this forum try to dominate what they believe is truth and will defend it and will try to teach what they believe to others.

I think almost every person - male or female - who posts on this website intends, at least, to influence others to their way of thinking and/or support those who already align with their perspective. It's just the way it is on these sorts of forums.

Especially those that believe that woman can Pastor and be teachers of men.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

I appreciate that Paul did not offer a cultural reason here for his thinking about women and their role in the Church. He goes right back to the beginning and points out that, where Eve was deceived, Adam was not.
 
Is it? I had no idea...



I think almost every person - male or female - who posts on this website intends, at least, to influence others to their way of thinking and/or support those who already align with their perspective. It's just the way it is on these sorts of forums.



I appreciate that Paul did not offer a cultural reason here for his thinking about women and their role in the Church. He goes right back to the beginning and points out that, where Eve was deceived, Adam was not.
Agreed.

Woman will defend that they are called to Pastor and lead the church until their last dying breath. I have had woman tell me that God, Holy Spirit and Jesus told them that is their calling. If the Bible says that is false, why do they do it?

I would assume they are not really saved.

Grace and peace to you.
 
Woman will defend that they are called to Pastor and lead the church until their last dying breath. I have had woman tell me that God, Holy Spirit and Jesus told them that is their calling. If the Bible says that is false, why do they do it?

For the same reason Eve chose to eat of the Forbidden Fruit despite God having expressly commanded her not to.

I would assume they are not really saved.

Oh, I wouldn't be too quick to jump to this conclusion. A deceived Christian may be a genuine Christian.
 
electedbyhim I am not saying this because I am a woman, but you need to understand why Paul said that women need to be silent in the church.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive. It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that.

1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.

If God did not approve of women leading or instructing men then why was one third of Israel's first leadership team Female? God said to the prophet Micah "I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam, Micah 6:4.

Why was Deborah the chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades? Why was Huldah the most accurate prophet in Israel and why did God use her to instruct the king? Why did Anna prophesy at the Temple and Priscilla instruct Apollos? Why was Chloe a house church leader, Phoebe a deacon and and Junia (yes a woman) an apostle.
 
Woman will defend that they are called to Pastor and lead the church until their last dying breath.
Does this mean all those men in prison that I went to teach the word of God to are not saved because I taught them about God's salvation? BTW, I was a licensed Evangelist at that time and yes, God called me to that ministry as I conducted Church services to those who were incarcerated.
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

Not into female ministers etc. the Bible lays out qualifications and it’s pretty much men only.

Ministries? Far less clear. Obviously some Christian women were very engaged in the early church. And…

Ideas have consequences. I think of it as ye shall know a tree by the fruit it bears on a larger scale when dealing with Christian churches and groups. So…

I’ve only seen female ministers either in denominations in decline or straight up do your own thing not so scriptural churches. Neither situation worked well. Then…

One has ministries. Women seem to do very well leading kids and other women. Men seem more inclined to follow men they can respect. Vulnerable groups seem to do well with either. Sick people prisoners geriatric groups that kind of thing.

I kinda suspect that some degree of patriarchy is just what we’re stuck with this side of eternity. In Christ there is a certain sort of equality but it plays out in the context of a fallen world 🌎. To that end…

Arguments over interpretation of scripture aside one should make accommodations for the world we live in…

Churches should be headed by men, ideally married monogamous heterosexual men whom men in the church can respect. Women can and should contribute in a variety of roles just…

Not as ministers. Personal opinion plus scripture.

Side note…I’m a borderline socialist do some of this is rather unpleasant for me to deal with lol 😆
 
Well what was the position of elders , requirement?

That Paul was only talking to a cultural issue then marriage is well not so universal as he referenced that and also lists position of elders being head of household,ruler of their house ,and married to one wife.

A teacher is an elder sorry but they are .

You wouldnt take a novice to teach the Bible after being saved a year .
 
I understand that this forum is dominated by Catholic, Arminian, Pentecostal and Charismatics.

It is interesting that the woman on this forum try to dominate what they believe is truth and will defend it and will try to teach what they believe to others.

Especially those that believe that woman can Pastor and be teachers of men.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.
Yes I have seen this a few times now. They attempt to teach but get it wrong over and over. No one accepts correction, they rewrite church history and create their own ideas of what scripture teaches.
1 tim2:11-14 is very clear. Paul says that right before he directs us about male eldership.
 
electedbyhim I am not saying this because I am a woman, but you need to understand why Paul said that women need to be silent in the church.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive. It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that.

1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.

If God did not approve of women leading or instructing men then why was one third of Israel's first leadership team Female? God said to the prophet Micah "I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam, Micah 6:4.

Why was Deborah the chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades? Why was Huldah the most accurate prophet in Israel and why did God use her to instruct the king? Why did Anna prophesy at the Temple and Priscilla instruct Apollos? Why was Chloe a house church leader, Phoebe a deacon and and Junia (yes a woman) an apostle.
I have been down this path more times then I would like to admit.

Believe as you will.
 
Does this mean all those men in prison that I went to teach the word of God to are not saved because I taught them about God's salvation? BTW, I was a licensed Evangelist at that time and yes, God called me to that ministry as I conducted Church services to those who were incarcerated.
1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

According to the above verse, God did not call you.

You called yourself.
 
1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

According to the above verse, God did not call you.

You called yourself.
How do you know, were you there when I heard Him speak to me and equipped me............NO!

I explained all this in #7. You need to research why Paul made that statement like many of us have in the full context.

But, I am not going to argue nor debate this with you.
 
I have been down this path more times then I would like to admit.

Believe as you will.
Then why go down it again as you can believe what you want, but it's also good to try and understand where others are coming from what they understand. After all you brought it up :shrug
 
How do you know, were you there when I heard Him speak to me and equipped me............NO!

I explained all this in #7. You need to research why Paul made that statement like many of us have in the full context.

But, I am not going to argue nor debate this with you.
No need to debate.

I have studied this in depth many times. I have also listened and read testimonies from woman, who believed the Lord called them. I understand the many ways people twist the background of Paul's writings and Scripture for their own benefit.

You are entitled to your belief and opinions.
 
No need to debate.

I have studied this in depth many times. I have also listened and read testimonies from woman, who believed the Lord called them. I understand the many ways people twist the background of Paul's writings and Scripture for their own benefit.

You are entitled to your belief and opinions.
And you have a good evening.
 
I've also seen the love of God in the sister who led me to Jesus, in brothers also. It's the Holy Spirit of our dear Lord they walk with, whether men or women.

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1Cor.11:11-12

So Paul is showing how men are made in the image of Christ, but also as a member of the church, which is a sort of female role, as the church is the bride of Christ.

And this explains,

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor.11:3

because godly women pray without uncovering their husbands. That is, without gossiping about the flaws in their spouses.
Jesus himself needed no such covering, being God in flesh.

Anyway, I have no problem with anyone who loves our Lord in a leadership role.
 
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