crazy question

[Rinid]

Here is a crazy question. What do you think of God's plan for us and our ability to mess it up. God's got a plan for each of us. My question is what happenes when we mess it up?

First time I seen this was abram gen 12:1 where he was told to leave. Yet he departs with lot. We have nothing saying God told him to take lot. In fact we have lot causing some trouble with the journey that could had been avoided had he not taken him. I often wonder what God's plan was for lot. Also wonder if he kinda had to adjust his plan for abram who later became Abraham. example land later got divided up between lot and abraham where abraham got the bad end of the stick because he told lot to pick and he picks the valley, the better area .. In this example we see God still workin in abraham but not so sure in lot's case. So what do you guys think?

 

[Mike]

I believe scripture says that God knows the hearts of man, his intentions, and his motivations. He has foreknown everything that will happen, but this doesn't preclude free will. Those who accept predestination will disagree with this scriptural reference, but I believe it's clear that God doesn't always get what He Desires.

1 Timothy 2
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29702">1</sup> I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29703">2</sup> for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29704">3</sup> This is good, and pleases God our Savior, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29705">4</sup> who wants [some versions say "desires"] all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29706">5</sup> For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-29707">6</sup> who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time."

This seems to suggest that there is a difference between God foreknowing and dictating the decisions (free will) of man. God knows the depths of our hearts as said in Hebrews.

Hebrews 4
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30027">"12</sup> For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30028">13</sup> Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account."

Isaiah spoke for the Lord and testified to His Foreknowledge of all that has been and will be. I could see how some might read these words and come to the understanding that God's Will shall come to pass, but I believe this points to His Purpose. His Purpose is the what will be; the end of time and a New Creation.

Isaiah 46
" <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18595">8</sup> “Remember this, fix it in mind,
take it to heart, you rebels.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18596">9</sup> Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18597">10</sup> I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18598">11</sup> From the east I summon a bird of prey;
from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. [ultimately His Purpose will stand, but He uses all of our decisions as a means to His end.]
What I have said, that will I bring about;
what I have planned, that will I do.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18599">12</sup> Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted,
you who are far from righteousness.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-18600">13</sup> I am bringing my righteousness near,
it is not far away;
and my salvation will not be delayed.
I will grant salvation to Zion,
my splendor to Israel."

No one can "mess up" God's Plan, because what He Foreknows cannot fail to come to pass. It will be as it will be just as what was, was and is, is. Nothing can thwart what God Knows and has already taken place in his Sovereignty.

 

[elijah23]

Here is a crazy question. What do you think of God's plan for us and our ability to mess it up. God's got a plan for each of us. My question is what happenes when we mess it up?

First time I seen this was abram gen 12:1 where he was told to leave. Yet he departs with lot. We have nothing saying God told him to take lot. In fact we have lot causing some trouble with the journey that could had been avoided had he not taken him. I often wonder what God's plan was for lot. Also wonder if he kinda had to adjust his plan for abram who later became Abraham. example land later got divided up between lot and abraham where abraham got the bad end of the stick because he told lot to pick and he picks the valley, the better area .. In this example we see God still workin in abraham but not so sure in lot's case. So what do you guys think?

If we mess up, we miss out on blessings. The more we mess up, the more blessings we miss out on. It reminds me of a children’s book I read long ago about a bear that missed out on a trip to his grandmother’s because he was late coming home.

 

[Rinid]

No one can "mess up" God's Plan, because what He Foreknows cannot fail to come to pass. It will be as it will be just as what was, was and is, is. Nothing can thwart what God Knows and has already taken place in his Sovereignty.

Guess this goes back to how we think about salvation. Some say that god has prechose and calls out those he has predecided to save. Those then are always saved. We don't know who god has called so we go out and try to reach all. I have several issues with this. One is Jesus died for all, meaning to give everyone a choice. If we chose to except his forgivness and repent then we are saved. God has a plan for all. now to think about the complexity of the issues, to say that we have choice means that some is going to chose against what god wants. Someone chose to not accept the gift of salvation. Does that mean god had no plan for them? I don't believe so. If that person never choses to repent, then God's plan for there life is never realized. Thus this person messed it up. Now doesn't mean that god wasn't prepared and that he wasn't able to go on. We will not mess up the overall picture, the big picture.. but on a personal level us having the right to chose means we can mess up the plan for our lives. I think this is why god says our best is like dirty rags.