• CFN has a new look and a new theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • CFN welcomes new contributing members!

    Please welcome Roberto and Julia to our family

    Blessings in Christ, and hope you stay awhile!

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

[_ Old Earth _] Creation of man proven

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christ_is_great
  • Start date Start date
Christ_is_great said:
I never said that eating different food makes you darker or lighter. I said, were were made from the ground, which has different colors. you went too over the top with the tie though. :lol:
In a sense you are right, but I suspect it is for the wrong reasons. All the elements in us come from the ground and sky. But skin color is not tied into rock color anymore than the rainbow colors are tied to rock color.

We are all a bunch of atoms. We have a good theory for where the atoms came from and a process to get to where we are now. It does not involve magical beings because that adds unnecessary complexity.

For example, if you see broken window next to a baseball, do you assume a fairy shattered the glass or that the ball hit the window? Adding magic rarely simplifies an issue.

Quath
 
christ_is_great


You are often one of my examples on how people can argue the silliest things, with no proof, and still think they are right.

truly, from reading your posts, I believe you are joking, possibly an atheist in a mask just out to make christians look bad

(i can see that as being true, over you being really christian) 99% of the christians here, wouldnt agree with you. Maybe on the broad term that creationism is true, but on the statements you made, and the reasons. No..
 
Christ_is_great said:
reznwerks said:
[quote="Christ_is_great":e97dc]It's been proven by scientists that the same elements found in the human body are also found in dirt. Either scientists are making fools of themselves, or a Christian scientist found this one out.

Are you trying to say that the same elements that make up man are found in the environement? If so why is that so shocking? That is what is to be expected as evolutionists have said all along. Now if you had said that the elements that compose mans body are NOT found anywhere else on earth then I might give your argument some consideration.

i've never heard any evolutionist say that we evolved from plants or trees. and if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes on the earth?
Had you been following all along and doing your own research you would know the answer to the question. Man is not evolved from apes. Man is evolved from himself which is very similar to apes. You have monkeys, apes , organatangs etc and you have man that belongs in the same family.

[/quote:e97dc]
 
sad

Christ_is_great said:
[

have'nt you seen dirt? it's all kinds of colors. it's beige, red, yellow, brown and all other kinds of colors. that explains different shades of skin color

Were you serious?
 
ThinkerMan said:
Christ_is_great said:
your example of cars are non-living things. if we evolved, why have'nt other animals evolved. they've had "billions of years" to do it, why can't they?

Wow. You really don't know anything about the theory of evolution, do you?

The TOE was first devised by Darwin to explain the diversity of animal life on the Galapogos Islands. The finches, for example.

The TOE is a mechanism to explain the diversity of ALL life, include fungi, plants and all animals. Part of the reason why it is accepted by science is because it well explains the diversity of all these lifeforms.
As a simple matter of fact, it was Malthusian population theory that made Darwin start thinking about how populations can change over time, not finches.

C_i_G: Your logic is completely...silly. All the elements within us are found in the soil yes, but those same elements are found in all life on earth. Soil is an amalgum of organic material and eroded minerals and rocks. It is formed, at least partially, by the deterioration of dead organic matter, such as human bodies.

If your diety was so powerful, why would he play around with dirt and not, say, simply wish the fully formed human being into existence? Your argument is silly, scientifically, logically, and theologically.
 
Christ_is_great,

Do you know what dirt is made out of?

If you said dead things and bits of rock, you'd be right on!

Yes, soil is made of decayed organic material. According to YOUR theology, there was no death before sin. Decayed organic material is dead.
 
since you say dirt is MADE of dead organic material, your saying that dirt was once a living organism. where is that in the animal kingdom? :roll:
 
Christ_is_great said:
since you say dirt is MADE of dead organic material, your saying that dirt was once a living organism. where is that in the animal kingdom? :roll:

Did you honestly read what I wrote???

Dirt is made of dead organic material....the dirt itself wasn't once a living organism...where did I say that?
 
lol wow..

christ_is_great...

how old are you?

THis seems liek a story out of "the picture book of the life of jesus"
 
Non life cannot produce life.

The theory that life came from non living material under the "right circumstances" is a belief that is wanting in evidence and in logic.

Life begets life. Where did life begin?

God created life.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Christians believe this by faith even though non of us witnessed creation.

It takes great faith to believe that life sprang by chance from non living material.

No one has ever observed non intelligent non living matter come together and produce life. Not just life but life that functions as though it were designed...

It makes more sense that life sprang from an intelligent all powerful being than it does to believe that life just happened... ;-)

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html

A good resource for Christians...
 
How did you get that form you fill out when you make posts BB?
 
bibleberean said:
No one has ever observed non intelligent non living matter come together and produce life. Not just life but life that functions as though it were designed...
Where do you watch? Can you watch every spot on Earth 24/7 to see if it happens? Can you watch every spot on the planets of our solarsystem? Galaxy? Universe?

We know that simple life is a collection of atoms. We know atoms can combine and they do combine. The process of making life from non-life can be achieved through a random process. So the question is more of "how often does life come from non-life" instead of "can it?"

Quath
 
Quath said:
bibleberean said:
No one has ever observed non intelligent non living matter come together and produce life. Not just life but life that functions as though it were designed...
Where do you watch? Can you watch every spot on Earth 24/7 to see if it happens? Can you watch every spot on the planets of our solarsystem? Galaxy? Universe?

We know that simple life is a collection of atoms. We know atoms can combine and they do combine. The process of making life from non-life can be achieved through a random process. So the question is more of "how often does life come from non-life" instead of "can it?"

Quath

life does not come from non life and you can not prove it ever has.

You believe this occurs by faith. You can combine non living material all you want but it won't produce life.

God created everything and He is the God that all mankind will give an account.

Excerpt from:

Evolution or God's Word?
Author: Dave Hunt
Publication Date: 2/1/1997


For full article and references click here...

http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter ... /5218.aspx

In his book, The Blind Watchmaker, Oxford University zoologist Richard Dawkins, a leading evolutionist, calls biology "the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose."13 Indeed! One cell, the smallest living unit, could have 100,000 molecules and 10,000 intricately interrelated chemical reactions going on at one time. Cells couldn't arise by chance! Dawkins admits that every cell contains in its nucleus "a digitally coded database larger...than all 30 volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together."14 You can't even imagine the odds against chance creating a 30-volume encyclopedia! That's for one celland there are trillions in the human body, thousands of different kinds, working in unbelievably complex and delicately balanced relationships!

The astronomical odds make evolution mathematically impossible. Hoyle calculated that the odds of producing just the basic enzymes of life by chance are 1 over 1 with 40,000 zeros after it. By comparison, the odds of plucking a particular atom out of the universe is 1 over 1 with 80 zeros. Even if each atom became another universe, the odds of plucking a particular atom out of all those universes by chance are 1 over 1 with 160 zeros. One chance in 1 with 40,000 zeros after it just to produce the basic enzymes! But enzymes perform incredible feats, which fact further compounds the already impossible odds.

Why does blood clot only at the point of bleeding and not within the veins and arteriesand stop clotting when the bleeding stops? Imagine the billions of animals that would have bled to death or been killed by improper blood clotting before this incredible process was perfected by chance! The immune system is even more astonishing, says Behe: "The complexity of the system dooms all Darwinian explanations...."15 And so it is with hundreds of other life systems. Remember, these complex systems must be operational to be of value; they couldn't evolve in stages.

In his excellent 1996 book, Darwin's Black Box, Behe documents the incomprehensible complexity of life at its most basic chemical/cellular levela complexity unimagined by Darwin. Behe, who says evolution "should be banished,"16 demolishes Darwin's theory by offering multiple examples at the biochemical level of intricately designed "irreducibly complex" elements which could not have evolved:


[Evolution] cannot explain the origin of the complex biochemical structures that undergird life. It doesn't even try....The conclusion of intelligent design flows naturally from the data itself not from sacred books or sectarian beliefs. 17"

BB Comments:

Why do atheists insist that something as complex as life sprang by blind luck without a designer?

Most despise accountability. If they allowed themselves to admit the obvious they could not play god and do as their foolish, vain and vile egos wish.

They are drawn to Christian forums to harass and bring confusion to baby Christians and people seeking Christ and salvation. They are here at the bidding of the god they witlessly serve.

Emissaries of darkness, preachers of their religion.
 
The first problem is you assume life started by combinations of atoms that led to the creation of a cell. However, simplier life is possible. We can reduce the probability a lot by making simple observations. For example, you do not need to make cell walls if you use pores in rocks. Bubbles can also make containers. Also, life may have started off as something that was quickly evolved out of such a polymers that can self replicate.

But say for the sake of argument that the probability of creating life is 1 in 10^42434723364623794 or however big you want it. If the universe is infinite, how many times has life come from non-life? The answer is an infinite. So if the universe is infinitely big, there has to be life created accidentally from non-life.

Quath
 
Even the simple cell is complex. Life did not take place by chance.

Logic and evidence overwhelmingly refute that claim.

Living organisms are designed. They are designed with a purpose and design requires intelligence.

Evolution or God's Word?
Author: Dave Hunt
Publication Date: 2/1/1997


http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter ... /5218.aspx

"Evolution would have filled the fossil record with billions of intermediary creatures, yet not one of these "missing links" has been found!

Imagine the debris of the millions of tiny increments over millions of years it must have taken to develop lungs from gills, wings from nothing, the stomach and digestive system, eyes, kidneys, the brain and nervous system throughout the body, the blood stream, sperm and ovum for mammals, the egg and its shell for birds and reptiles, etc. Impossibility is compounded since each of these systems is incredibly complex and could not evolve gradually, but must be fully functional to sustain life and aid in "survival"for example, the bat's sophisticated radar system.

How many millions of Arctic terns drowned before the first one "learned," by chance, to navigate thousands of miles across the ocean? How many salmon lost their way and never made it back to their birth stream to spawn before this uncanny ability was developed? How many spiders starved before the amazing mechanism for making webs chanced itself into existenceand who taught spiders to use this contrivance? How many eggs of all manner of birds rotted before the instinct to hatch eggs developed? How was it learned and passed on? There are countless impossibilities for "chance."

Today's concern for "endangered species" contradicts Darwin. Evolution wipes out the unfit. One cannot believe in evolution and also work for ecological preservation of species. As evolution's ultimate product, man should mercilessly stamp out every rival for survival. The contradictions are endless.

In his latest book, Reason in the Balance, Phillip Johnson argues that only creation by God can account for man's moral conscience. Nature has no morals. Man's sense of ethics and morals disproves evolution. If evolution is true, we ought to shut down all hospitals, cease all medications and let the weak die. You can't reconcile kindness and compassion with evolution's survival of the fittest.

bb concludes:

The universe is not infinite. Life on earth did not happen by luck and it is impossible for things like folds in the reptile skin to evolve into feathers over millions of years as many evolutionists theorize. Impossible and absurd... :D

I mean think about it... If you dare..
 
bibleberean said:
Living organisms are designed. They are designed with a purpose and design requires intelligence.
So you are saying that God is not alive since He was not designed?

"Evolution would have filled the fossil record with billions of intermediary creatures, yet not one of these "missing links" has been found!
Bones rot in case you didn't know. Not all that dies becomes a fossile.

Today's concern for "endangered species" contradicts Darwin. Evolution wipes out the unfit. One cannot believe in evolution and also work for ecological preservation of species. As evolution's ultimate product, man should mercilessly stamp out every rival for survival. The contradictions are endless.
We are in a stage of selective breeding. Human actions work on a much shorter timescale and we have attachments to animals around us. So we seek to save them, not out of Darwinism, but out of some pleasure.

In his latest book, Reason in the Balance, Phillip Johnson argues that only creation by God can account for man's moral conscience. Nature has no morals. Man's sense of ethics and morals disproves evolution. If evolution is true, we ought to shut down all hospitals, cease all medications and let the weak die. You can't reconcile kindness and compassion with evolution's survival of the fittest.
So a dog defending her pups is not doing something good? Or a dog saving humans from a fire is not doing good? Is a dog that turns on its master doing bad? We pretend we are so much above the animals when we act so much like them.

The universe is not infinite.
Where did you come up with this fact? So far astronomers think the universe is infinite based on observation. Basically, there are no edge effects, so if the universe is finite it is on a much grander scale than we can see. So the simpliest assumption is it is homogenous and infinite. Now it could be that it is finite on a huge scale, but there is nothing to support that. But to state it is impossible for it to be infinite. How do you come up with that?

Quath
 
I think my post answered most of the objections raised.

God is the first cause. He would not be God if He was created or came into existence by chance.

God always was and always will be.

Chrisitians who believe the bible know that the Universe is finite and that God is infinite.

1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Atheists choose to believe that non intelligent chance created all things.

That way they are free to keep their foolish way of looking at life without any accountability to anything higher than themselves.

Atheists are extreme egotists.

The less foolish and more intelligent believe that there is a God and that the evidence of Him is seen in creation.

Design demands a designer

Creation demands a creator.

Evolutionists believe that a man could evolve from a worm over time.

Just think about how absurd that is... :D

What would have programmed man to evolve? Non intelligent chance?

That is sound theory?

Article from Answers In Genesis

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/197.asp

Who Created God?

by Jonathan Sarfati

This is often asked of Christians. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question “Who created God?†is illogical, just like “To whom is the bachelor married?â€Â.

So a more sophisticated questioner might ask: “If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?†In reply, Christians should use the following reasoning:

Everything which has a beginning has a cause.1

The universe has a beginning.

Therefore the universe has a cause.

It’s important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space. Since God, by definition, is the Creator of the whole universe, he is the Creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time. Therefore He doesn’t have a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.

2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the best solution is that the universe must have been created with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.2

Now, what if the questioner accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause no-one really denies it in his heart. All science, history and law enforcement would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied.3 Also, the universe cannot be self-caused nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it was brought into existence, a logical absurdity.

In Summary

The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have a beginning.
It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.

The universe therefore requires a cause, just as Genesis 1:1 and Romans 1:20 teach.

God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn’t need a cause.
4
See also my more technical version of this article, which answers some objections.

Notes

Actually, the word “cause†has several different meanings in philosophy. But in this article, I am referring to the efficient cause, the chief agent causing something to be made.

Oscillating (yoyo) universe ideas were popularized by atheists like the late Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov solely to avoid the notion of a beginning, with its implications of a Creator. But the Laws of thermodynamics undercut that argument as each one of the hypothetical cycles would exhaust more and more usable energy. This means every cycle would be larger and longer than the previous one, so looking back in time there would be smaller and smaller cycles.

So the multicycle model could have an infinite future, but can only have a finite past. Also, there is far too little mass to stop expansion and allow cycling in the first place, and no known mechanism would allow a bounce back after a hypothetical “big crunchâ€Â.

See the references in Note 4 for more details. Some physicists assert that quantum mechanics violates this cause/effect principle and can produce something for nothing, but this is not so. Theories that the universe is a quantum fluctuation must presuppose that there was something to fluctuate their “quantum vacuum†is lot of matter-antimatter potential not “nothingâ€Â. Also, if there is no cause, there is no explanation why this particular universe appeared at a particular time, nor why it was a universe and not, say, a banana or cat which appeared. This universe can’t have any properties to explain its preferential coming into existence, because it wouldn’t have any properties until it actually came into existence.

More information can be found in William Lane Craig, Apologetics: An Introduction (Chicago: Moody, 1984) and The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe; Norman L Geisler, Christian Apolgetics (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker, 1976). But beware of the unfortunate (and unnecessary) friendliness towards the unscriptural “big bang†theory.
 
Evolutionists believe that a man could evolve from a worm over time.
That's insane, point to an evolutionary biologist who states this.
 
SyntaxVorlon said:
Evolutionists believe that a man could evolve from a worm over time.
That's insane, point to an evolutionary biologist who states this.

Evolutionists believe man evolved from a lower life form to a higher.

You are nit picking... ;-)

If life originated from some primordial soup then man's ancestors could have easily originated from some worm like creature.

However, there is no evidence that proves man evolved from a lower life form.

Man begets man and worms beget worms.
 
SyntaxVorlon said:
How did you get that form you fill out when you make posts BB?

My spectacular body form is a result of good nutrition, resistance training and cardio vascular excercise.

I didn't get this build from posting...

Oh, wait... you said "form you fill" out not form to fill out...

I still don't understand your question... :o
 
Back
Top