Déjà Vu

[Mike]

Yeah! We are brainiacs, Mike!

Speak for yourself. You've obviously not been paying attention to my posts. Some people don't know what's going on. I don't even suspect anything's going on. I'm just trying not to get hurt! :D

 

[Hitch]

Didn’t you ask that question last week?

Beat me by 20 posts.

 

[Ashua]

You're actually on to it here. I'm drawing on the leading evidence from my physiology classes 20 years ago, but I believe it's still highly regarded, and there is a physiological explanation for it. It's not voodoo.

The brain sends signals from neuron to neuron in response to stimuli through synapses and synaptic chemicals. Most of the time it works without a disruption, but once in a while it doesn't. The synapses are delayed in their transfer of stimuli, and your brain synthesizes it a fraction of a second after your senses do.

It's actually bizarre to consider. When you experience deja vu, your brain is (for a time) remembering something that it perceives to have happened long ago. But in reality, it happened a split second before. That's kind of wild stuff!

Hm... Is it proven according to what you have heard, or is that also a theory? That would be really cool if I was that close to the confirmed cause.

Still... I think there are other cases that cannot possibly fit the bill. Like.. recurring deja vus..

 

[Alabaster]

"It might be a tumor."

Still... I think there are other cases that cannot possibly fit the bill. Like.. recurring deja vus..

[video=youtube;BANkMaLJaY4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BANkMaLJaY4[/video]

 

[Mike]

Hm... Is it proven according to what you have heard, or is that also a theory? That would be really cool if I was that close to the confirmed cause.

Still... I think there are other cases that cannot possibly fit the bill. Like.. recurring deja vus..

The problem with proving this theory is that it's so difficult to study under controlled settings. Researchers can't bring subjects to a lab and say, "Okay, now have deja vu." in order to study the neuro-activity occurring in the brain. It's too unpredictable to observe in clinical research. But most neurologists believe strongly that this is the cause because of what they know about brain activity. Here's a short article from "Scientific American" speaking to it...

What is going on in the brain when we experience déjà vu?: Scientific American

 

[Bob Carabbio]

In a Baptist Church in Lake Avon, Oh -

It was 2002, and I was chatting with the pastor in his office. I was a member there, and the pastor knew I was a wild eyed Charismatic, and we were swapping "War stories".

He told me the the church had struggled financially for a long time - seemed that nothing "worked" and it was easy to give in to discouragement.

And one Sunday evening before service, he was in his kitchen with a sandwich -

And then suddenly he was at the church, behind the pulpit. and for a while he watched the people come into the evening service, and sitting down in their places. And then he was back in his kitchen again.

When it was time for service he went to the church, and was on the platform behind the pulpit, and realized that what he'd seen in his kitchen - was happening again - the same people in the same order sitting in the same places just like he'd seen.

But he started the service in the normal manner (not really knowing what to make of it all) and things went normally until the END of the service.

At that point a large Black man (that he didn't know and hadn't seen come in) seated in the back of the church stood up, and said in a loud voice that the "Time of trial was over, and that God would send in people to the congregation and bless the church". And the man turned and walked out the rear doors of the auditorium - which led to a long hall with Sunday School rooms on both sides down to the front entrance.

The head usher who also was sitting on the back row got up and followed him out - but there was nobody there in the hall, or in the rooms. The man hadn't had the time to get out the front door - he was just gone.

But in the following weeks new people started coming to the church - including some financial heavy hitters from Ford Assembly plant, and the church suddenly began to grow and be financially sound -

 

[Alabaster]

Re: In a Baptist Church in Lake Avon, Oh -

it was 2002, and I was chatting with the pastor in his office. I was a member there, but the pastor knew I was Charismatic, and we were swapping "War stories".

He told me the the church had struggled financially for a long time - seemed that nothing "worked" and it was easy to give in to discouragement.

And one Sunday evening before service, he was in his kitchen with a sandwich -

And then suddenly he was at the church, behind the pulpit. and for a while he watched the people come into the evening service, and sitting down in their places. And then he was back in his kitchen again.

When it was time for service he went to the church, and was on the platform behind the pulpit, and realized that what he'd seen in his kitchen - was happening again - the same people in the same order sitting in the same places just like he'd seen.

But he started the service in the normal manner (not really knowing what to make of it all) and things went normally until the END of the service.

At that point a large Black man (that he didn't know and hadn't seen come in) seated in the back of the church stood up, and said in a loud voice that the "Time of trial was over, and that God would send in people to the congregation and bless the church". And the man turned and walked out the rear doors of the auditorium - which led to a long hall with Sunday School rooms on both sides down to the front entrance.

The head usher who also was sitting on the back row got up and followed him out - but there was nobody there in the hall, or in the rooms. The man hadn't had the time to get out the front door - he was just gone.

But in the following weeks new people started coming to the church - including some financial heavy hitters from Ford Assembly plant, and the church suddenly began to grow and be financially sound -

Ahhh, that wasn't deja vu. That was a prophetic vision from God given to a shepherd about his flock.

Wonderful!

 

[Mike]

Wow, indeed, Bob! Not deja vu, but something much greater! Just wow!

 

[Ashua]

The problem with proving this theory is that it's so difficult to study under controlled settings. Researchers can't bring subjects to a lab and say, "Okay, now have deja vu." in order to study the neuro-activity occurring in the brain. It's too unpredictable to observe in clinical research. But most neurologists believe strongly that this is the cause because of what they know about brain activity. Here's a short article from "Scientific American" speaking to it...

What is going on in the brain when we experience déjà vu?: Scientific American

Hate to stray a little bit; but for the unbelievers who read this, particularly those whom have argued in the science forum: This is a perfect example of what I mean when I say I am skeptical of unproven "science" when it is not an absolutely conclusive thing. Notice how the theorized mechanics of deja vu do not in any way threaten Christian doctrine, but yet I am hesitant to accept it for fact? This is the standard which I set for myself when accepting theories of science such as evolution, geology, "dinosaurs", and so on. I am not "convinced" by this explanation even though I certainly think it is possible and even thought of a similar concept.

Mike, that makes perfect sense about being hard to replicate it for real observation. It very well may be the reason for many if not all deja vu cases, but it isn't conclusive. Couldnt resist but exploiting this opportunity to show that my skepticism isn't because of a religious bias. The burden of "proof" is what I require in all science. Out of respect for the thread I will not say another word off topic and please if anyone feels the need to add to it, start a new thread of PM me.

 

[Mike]

Ashua, I don't disagree with what you say, and I tried to make my statements with the point that this is not a known fact but the leading theory. I agree that science can take the leap and come to conclusions without evidence, and it has. But opposed to this theory, there hasn't been (that I know of) opposing theories that are reasonable. No need to even consider some that include alternative universes or past lives. If you consider the possibilities, what else could it be besides chemical/neurological? That seems very reasonable compared to the possibility that a person has actually been through this given sequence of events before.

 

[Ashua]

Ashua, I don't disagree with what you say, and I tried to make my statements with the point that this is not a known fact but the leading theory. I agree that science can take the leap and come to conclusions without evidence, and it has. But opposed to this theory, there hasn't been (that I know of) opposing theories that are reasonable. No need to even consider some that include alternative universes or past lives. If you consider the possibilities, what else could it be besides chemical/neurological? That seems very reasonable compared to the possibility that a person has actually been through this given sequence of events before.

Mike, I know you were saying it was theory. I was just taking it as a chance to point out how science deserves to be held to scrutiny and even in matters which don't seem to threaten religion, I keep that same standard. Nothing you said I had a problem with. You presented it honestly.

 

[theLords]

Okay, so I just had a deja vu (or did I?) and I haven't experienced deja vu in months.

Maybe the Matrix best explains deja vu?

Who took the red pill?