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D&D anyone?

Scott said:
It certainly can't hurt to get all sides of a story, can it CB?

I played a demo on the site Eskarina gave me links to. It seems like a fantasy game that is long and drawn out. The Dungeon Master definitely gets to hone up on their reading skills which isn't a bad thing. I know I only played a small portion of the game, but I really don't have anything negative to say about it. I'll just say its probably not my cup-a-tea because the amount of time it probably takes to make progress in the game. But hey, thats just me.
Well the demo takes you through very slowly and, well, it's very different when you're sitting around a table with your friends. It is very involved though.
 
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
If you want lies and disinformation.

I can't believe you referenced Chick! Twice! The man is out to lunch. I've been playing two years and I'm certainly not being sucked into the "bowels of el Diablo"*. Out of the people I play with on a regular basis, 9 are devout Christians, 5 are peripheral Christians, 3 are Agnostic, and 3 are Wiccan, and 1 is Athiest. This is what the man envisions D&D as: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp . It's ridiculous and most gamers I know have a copy floating about in their house so that they can show it to people who have never played before and have a good laugh.

*see the flash animation I linked to earlier.
 
About Dark Dungeons in relation to the real game:

I have exceeded 8th level with 5 or more characters one of which is a cleric and nobody has even tried to teach me 'real' spells.

I have had characters die many times. Worst comes to worst, you make a new character. You don't get kicked out of a game for a character death.

You don't play the game alone.

There is no reason not to take a phone call. It's not like you even need to press the pause button.

You don't call your Dungeon Master by that title, it sounds silly and formal. Sometimes you reference him/her as the DM, but mostly you call him/her Bob, or Jackie, or whatever your friend's name is.
 
Solo said:
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
Khaine said:
When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith.

Yeah, just absolutely evil horrible things. I mean, just check out this filth

We do believe:

In the inherent worth of every person. People are worthy of respect, support, and caring simply because they are human.
Respect people? Come on. Our steward of Chrisitianty, Solo, has taught us that we need to disrespect unbelievers and/or other believers who disagree with us---that is the only way to get through to them and is the 'Christian' thing to do.

[quote:be172]In working towards a culture that is relatively free of discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, xenophobia, degree of ability, age, etc.
Another horrible statement--every good Christian needs to descriminate against others that are inferior to them. Isn't that what the gospel of Christ is all about--Lording it over the scum who aren't as perfect as we are?

[quote:be172]
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment including the death penalty. 1
Give me a break. Bush says terrorists need tortured, so torturing is moral. We need to be pro-torture as Christans. And yay death penalty! Let's enforce it like the Israelites did! The more people put to death the better!

In the importance of democracy within religious, political and other structures.
Well, Bush seems to love Democracy, so shouldn't Christians? Oh wait, when it comes to religion, the majority is always wrong and the minority of fringe fundamentalists are right.

In the separation of church and state; and the freedoms of speech, association, and expression. 2
Horrible things. We need a theocracy giving us a state religion and forcing us to worship. That's what God wants us to do after all---force everyone to follow him.
That systems of truth in the field of morals, ethics, and religious belief are not absolute. They vary by culture, religion, and over time.
Yeah, moral truths are absolute. Just like in Biblical times, slavery is moral. I can't wait to buy me my first slave.

In the generally positive influence that most religions have had on their followers and on society. 3
Of yeah, religions have a horrible influence on people.

In the importance of individual believers determining evil influences and policies within their chosen faith group, and advocate for their correction.
Individuals have no ability to determine right from wrong. We have to be told what right and wrong is, mainly from self-righteous believers that know better than us.
In the importance of education. We believe that a person is not truly educated unless they have studied religion and its effect on society. Students need to learn about all major religions and ethical systems.
Give me a break. Everyone knows education is of the devil. Christians need to be as ignorant as possible.

Thank you Solo, such a great Brother, warning Christians of the evil beliefs of religioustolerance.org. Without you we might fall prey to such horrible evil subversive statements. You are such an amazing person.[/quote:be172]
And where did I say that the statement of faith was evil and filth? You have placed words in my mouth again dear liberal friend.[/quote:be172]

You said "When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith." I have read enough of your posts to know that when you say "liberal ecumenical" you mean "evil filth." If I am mistaken, please tell me what you did mean by this statement?
 
Solo said:
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
Khaine said:
When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith.

Yeah, just absolutely evil horrible things. I mean, just check out this filth

We do believe:

In the inherent worth of every person. People are worthy of respect, support, and caring simply because they are human.
Respect people? Come on. Our steward of Chrisitianty, Solo, has taught us that we need to disrespect unbelievers and/or other believers who disagree with us---that is the only way to get through to them and is the 'Christian' thing to do.

[quote:00580]In working towards a culture that is relatively free of discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, xenophobia, degree of ability, age, etc.
Another horrible statement--every good Christian needs to descriminate against others that are inferior to them. Isn't that what the gospel of Christ is all about--Lording it over the scum who aren't as perfect as we are?

[quote:00580]
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment including the death penalty. 1
Give me a break. Bush says terrorists need tortured, so torturing is moral. We need to be pro-torture as Christans. And yay death penalty! Let's enforce it like the Israelites did! The more people put to death the better!

In the importance of democracy within religious, political and other structures.
Well, Bush seems to love Democracy, so shouldn't Christians? Oh wait, when it comes to religion, the majority is always wrong and the minority of fringe fundamentalists are right.

In the separation of church and state; and the freedoms of speech, association, and expression. 2
Horrible things. We need a theocracy giving us a state religion and forcing us to worship. That's what God wants us to do after all---force everyone to follow him.
That systems of truth in the field of morals, ethics, and religious belief are not absolute. They vary by culture, religion, and over time.
Yeah, moral truths are absolute. Just like in Biblical times, slavery is moral. I can't wait to buy me my first slave.

In the generally positive influence that most religions have had on their followers and on society. 3
Of yeah, religions have a horrible influence on people.

In the importance of individual believers determining evil influences and policies within their chosen faith group, and advocate for their correction.
Individuals have no ability to determine right from wrong. We have to be told what right and wrong is, mainly from self-righteous believers that know better than us.
In the importance of education. We believe that a person is not truly educated unless they have studied religion and its effect on society. Students need to learn about all major religions and ethical systems.
Give me a break. Everyone knows education is of the devil. Christians need to be as ignorant as possible.

Thank you Solo, such a great Brother, warning Christians of the evil beliefs of religioustolerance.org. Without you we might fall prey to such horrible evil subversive statements. You are such an amazing person.[/quote:00580]
And where did I say that the statement of faith was evil and filth? You have placed words in my mouth again dear liberal friend.[/quote:00580]

You said "When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith." I have read enough of your posts to know that when you say "liberal ecumenical" you mean "evil filth." If I am mistaken, please tell me what you did mean by this statement?
 
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
Khaine said:
When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith.

Yeah, just absolutely evil horrible things. I mean, just check out this filth

We do believe:

In the inherent worth of every person. People are worthy of respect, support, and caring simply because they are human.
Respect people? Come on. Our steward of Chrisitianty, Solo, has taught us that we need to disrespect unbelievers and/or other believers who disagree with us---that is the only way to get through to them and is the 'Christian' thing to do.

[quote:7c9b5]In working towards a culture that is relatively free of discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, xenophobia, degree of ability, age, etc.
Another horrible statement--every good Christian needs to descriminate against others that are inferior to them. Isn't that what the gospel of Christ is all about--Lording it over the scum who aren't as perfect as we are?

[quote:7c9b5]
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment including the death penalty. 1
Give me a break. Bush says terrorists need tortured, so torturing is moral. We need to be pro-torture as Christans. And yay death penalty! Let's enforce it like the Israelites did! The more people put to death the better!

In the importance of democracy within religious, political and other structures.
Well, Bush seems to love Democracy, so shouldn't Christians? Oh wait, when it comes to religion, the majority is always wrong and the minority of fringe fundamentalists are right.

In the separation of church and state; and the freedoms of speech, association, and expression. 2
Horrible things. We need a theocracy giving us a state religion and forcing us to worship. That's what God wants us to do after all---force everyone to follow him.
That systems of truth in the field of morals, ethics, and religious belief are not absolute. They vary by culture, religion, and over time.
Yeah, moral truths are absolute. Just like in Biblical times, slavery is moral. I can't wait to buy me my first slave.

In the generally positive influence that most religions have had on their followers and on society. 3
Of yeah, religions have a horrible influence on people.

In the importance of individual believers determining evil influences and policies within their chosen faith group, and advocate for their correction.
Individuals have no ability to determine right from wrong. We have to be told what right and wrong is, mainly from self-righteous believers that know better than us.
In the importance of education. We believe that a person is not truly educated unless they have studied religion and its effect on society. Students need to learn about all major religions and ethical systems.
Give me a break. Everyone knows education is of the devil. Christians need to be as ignorant as possible.

Thank you Solo, such a great Brother, warning Christians of the evil beliefs of religioustolerance.org. Without you we might fall prey to such horrible evil subversive statements. You are such an amazing person.[/quote:7c9b5]
And where did I say that the statement of faith was evil and filth? You have placed words in my mouth again dear liberal friend.[/quote:7c9b5]

You said "When you look at the religioustolerance site, make sure that you read their liberal ecumenical statement of faith." I have read enough of your posts to know that when you say "liberal ecumenical" you mean "evil filth." If I am mistaken, please tell me what you did mean by this statement?[/quote:7c9b5]
The religious tolerance statement of faith does not mention Christian doctrine, it only mentions feel good liberal thought with baseless meaning; no absolutes. Conservative Christians will note this liberal stance and take it as lightly as you do conservative statements of faith. You and I are diametrically opposed, and it is due to the chasm between liberal theology and orthodox theology. Your opinions reflect liberal scholarship and my opinions reflect conservative scholarship. Simple. Your liberal scholarship shows a liberal political stand as well manifested by your name-calling and ad hominem attacks. I don't think you will ever have anything of substance that you and I could discuss, therefore, if you are unable to control your attacks, please do not reply to my posts.
 
Solo said:
The religious tolerance statement of faith does not mention Christian doctrine,
Of course the statement of faith doesn't mention Christian doctrine, because it's not a Christian site. What in the world is your point?

it only mentions feel good liberal thought with baseless meaning; no absolutes.
I'm absolutely sure you don't fully understand the meaning of the word 'absolutes' because their statement of faith that I posted does indeed contain absolutes.

Conservative Christians will note this liberal stance and take it as lightly as you do conservative statements of faith.
Well, I don't take any statement of faith 'lightly' based on where it comes from--I actually use my own brain and evaluate things for their content. You don't see me criticizing articles/links/resources because they are conservative or Republican or whatever--you see me critizing them because of their content.

You and I are diametrically opposed, and it is due to the chasm between liberal theology and orthodox theology. Your opinions reflect liberal scholarship and my opinions reflect conservative scholarship. Simple.
I agree. Although, I'm not sure what our theology has to do with using non-Christian web resources for reference.

Your liberal scholarship shows a liberal political stand as well manifested by your name-calling and ad hominem attacks. I don't think you will ever have anything of substance that you and I could discuss, therefore, if you are unable to control your attacks, please do not reply to my posts.
You see attacks where there are none. I do not attack individuals on this forum--I attack claims that are made in the name of Christianity, yet do not represent all, or even most, Christians. You make many such statements---your post to Drew in some evolution thread recently implies that he is not a Christian because he does not interpret the Bible as you do---and as long as you continue to make such statements I will continue to attack them from my liberal Christian perspective, to allow all readers of the threads to know that you and your conservative ilk are not THE voice of Christianity.
 
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
The religious tolerance statement of faith does not mention Christian doctrine,
Of course the statement of faith doesn't mention Christian doctrine, because it's not a Christian site. What in the world is your point?

it only mentions feel good liberal thought with baseless meaning; no absolutes.
I'm absolutely sure you don't fully understand the meaning of the word 'absolutes' because their statement of faith that I posted does indeed contain absolutes.

[quote:6ed8e]Conservative Christians will note this liberal stance and take it as lightly as you do conservative statements of faith.
Well, I don't take any statement of faith 'lightly' based on where it comes from--I actually use my own brain and evaluate things for their content. You don't see me criticizing articles/links/resources because they are conservative or Republican or whatever--you see me critizing them because of their content.

You and I are diametrically opposed, and it is due to the chasm between liberal theology and orthodox theology. Your opinions reflect liberal scholarship and my opinions reflect conservative scholarship. Simple.
I agree. Although, I'm not sure what our theology has to do with using non-Christian web resources for reference.

Your liberal scholarship shows a liberal political stand as well manifested by your name-calling and ad hominem attacks. I don't think you will ever have anything of substance that you and I could discuss, therefore, if you are unable to control your attacks, please do not reply to my posts.
You see attacks where there are none. I do not attack individuals on this forum--I attack claims that are made in the name of Christianity, yet do not represent all, or even most, Christians. You make many such statements---your post to Drew in some evolution thread recently implies that he is not a Christian because he does not interpret the Bible as you do---and as long as you continue to make such statements I will continue to attack them from my liberal Christian perspective, to allow all readers of the threads to know that you and your conservative ilk are not THE voice of Christianity.[/quote:6ed8e]
Your comprehension skills are lacking as I have stated before. You continually put words in the mouths of those you disagree with, and you continually misinform others with your miscomprehension. I did not say that your site was evil and filth, and I did not say that Drew was not a Christian. I asked Drew if he was born again. There is a much that you resemble those that accuse and deliver false witness to over a Christian's attitude and intentions, but I will take your word for it, that you are a Christian. I have not seen much scripture or positive comments relating to Christianity from you, so I suppose time will tell. Those around you can tell by your fruits, but all I have are your negative words on a forum, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
 
Solo said:
I did not say that your site was evil and filth, and I did not say that Drew was not a Christian. I asked Drew if he was born again.
Lacking comprehension skills and not being nearly as familiar as you with the Scripture I am about to quote, please explain to me how asking someone if they are born again is not synonymous with asking them if they are a Christian? Are you saying that one can be a non-redeemed Christian destined for hell? Or is Christ quite clear than one needs to be born again to follow Jesus and enter his Kingdom?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
I did not say that your site was evil and filth, and I did not say that Drew was not a Christian. I asked Drew if he was born again.
Lacking comprehension skills and not being nearly as familiar as you with the Scripture I am about to quote, please explain to me how asking someone if they are born again is not synonymous with asking them if they are a Christian? Are you saying that one can be a non-redeemed Christian destined for hell? Or is Christ quite clear than one needs to be born again to follow Jesus and enter his Kingdom?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Cubedbee has a point. You must be born again to me a Christian.

You are both reacting harshly and sarcastically to each other, and I can't say it's not enjoyable to watch, I just don't want anyone feeling sore over my topic, ok?

Have either of you actually had direct contact with D&D? Like playing or knowing personally more than one person who plays?
 
Well I don't think that you have to be born again to be a christian, people have been saved on their deathbeds ya know. But that's for another topic. But I wanted to say that D&D is not necessarily "evil," it's fine if you do it in moderation, with the proper heart.
 
Eskarina said:
cubedbee said:
Solo said:
I did not say that your site was evil and filth, and I did not say that Drew was not a Christian. I asked Drew if he was born again.
Lacking comprehension skills and not being nearly as familiar as you with the Scripture I am about to quote, please explain to me how asking someone if they are born again is not synonymous with asking them if they are a Christian? Are you saying that one can be a non-redeemed Christian destined for hell? Or is Christ quite clear than one needs to be born again to follow Jesus and enter his Kingdom?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Cubedbee has a point. You must be born again to me a Christian.

You are both reacting harshly and sarcastically to each other, and I can't say it's not enjoyable to watch, I just don't want anyone feeling sore over my topic, ok?

Have either of you actually had direct contact with D&D? Like playing or knowing personally more than one person who plays?
Yes, I have, which is why my first post to this thread was critical of Jack Chick's links, which anyone who has experienced the game must find to be laughable falsehoods and distortions. I had several good friends in high school who played the game--I played a couple times, but my mother was a believer in Chick's drivel, and forbade it. So instead, I got really into console RPGs, which she didn't have tracts teaching against.
 
Kefka said:
Well I don't think that you have to be born again to be a christian, people have been saved on their deathbeds ya know. But that's for another topic. But I wanted to say that D&D is not necessarily "evil," it's fine if you do it in moderation, with the proper heart.

I know you said it's for another topic, but being born again is an instant thing. When you get saved and ask Jesus into your heart, you are metaphorically born again. You don't have to have been baptized or have taken communion (those are right and scriptural and should be done if you are able). Being born again is just a term for the change in your heart as you leave the sin of your life until now behind you, and your life is pure as if you've started life all over again. Baptism, if that is what you were refering to, is a symbolic outward expression to the world of the inner transformation.

Anyway, you're right about the D&D. People can sometimes become obsessed with the game, but no moreso than people can become obsessed with a sport, or TV, or videogames, or cross-stitching.
 
cubedbee said:
Yes, I have, which is why my first post to this thread was critical of Jack Chick's links, which anyone who has experienced the game must find to be laughable falsehoods and distortions. I had several good friends in high school who played the game--I played a couple times, but my mother was a believer in Chick's drivel, and forbade it. So instead, I got really into console RPGs, which she didn't have tracts teaching against.
That sucks... if you played D&D at least it would have been more social. It's hard to make a lasting friendship with a console. Unless it has been modified into a swank humanoid robot name Zeek, but that is highly unlikely.
 
Eskarina said:
You don't call your Dungeon Master by that title, it sounds silly and formal. Sometimes you reference him/her as the DM, but mostly you call him/her Bob, or Jackie, or whatever your friend's name is.

I make my players call me "Dark Lord Cthulhu", but that's just my personal preference.

Kidding aside, I absolutely love D&D. It's a great creative outlet, it's social, and it allows me to be a remorseless dork. It's more difficult to find the time to play now that I have a kid, but I recently started up another game with my friends. As DM, of course. I always wind up the DM, because I've been playing so long I have most of the core books memorized. :-D

After this current adventure, I'm going to insist that someone else DM. Last time I was a player, I was experimenting with a monk-based prestige class that I'd whipped up. It allowed you to basically channel spells into your melee attacks, and was a lot of fun to play. Unfortunately, that game was truncated due to circumstances beyond our control, so I never got to fully explore it. :sad
 
ArtGuy said:
Eskarina said:
You don't call your Dungeon Master by that title, it sounds silly and formal. Sometimes you reference him/her as the DM, but mostly you call him/her Bob, or Jackie, or whatever your friend's name is.

I make my players call me "Dark Lord Cthulhu", but that's just my personal preference.

Kidding aside, I absolutely love D&D. It's a great creative outlet, it's social, and it allows me to be a remorseless dork. It's more difficult to find the time to play now that I have a kid, but I recently started up another game with my friends. As DM, of course. I always wind up the DM, because I've been playing so long I have most of the core books memorized. :-D

After this current adventure, I'm going to insist that someone else DM. Last time I was a player, I was experimenting with a monk-based prestige class that I'd whipped up. It allowed you to basically channel spells into your melee attacks, and was a lot of fun to play. Unfortunately, that game was truncated due to circumstances beyond our control, so I never got to fully explore it. :sad
Have you checked out the Shujenga core class (I think that's what it's called) in the Complete Warrior (or was it the Complete Arcane, I can't quite remember). It's basically monk channelling spells in to melee attacks....
 
Eskarina said:
ArtGuy said:
Eskarina said:
You don't call your Dungeon Master by that title, it sounds silly and formal. Sometimes you reference him/her as the DM, but mostly you call him/her Bob, or Jackie, or whatever your friend's name is.

I make my players call me "Dark Lord Cthulhu", but that's just my personal preference.

Kidding aside, I absolutely love D&D. It's a great creative outlet, it's social, and it allows me to be a remorseless dork. It's more difficult to find the time to play now that I have a kid, but I recently started up another game with my friends. As DM, of course. I always wind up the DM, because I've been playing so long I have most of the core books memorized. :-D

After this current adventure, I'm going to insist that someone else DM. Last time I was a player, I was experimenting with a monk-based prestige class that I'd whipped up. It allowed you to basically channel spells into your melee attacks, and was a lot of fun to play. Unfortunately, that game was truncated due to circumstances beyond our control, so I never got to fully explore it. :sad
Have you checked out the Shujenga core class (I think that's what it's called) in the Complete Warrior (or was it the Complete Arcane, I can't quite remember). It's basically monk channelling spells in to melee attacks....
Aaaaand I'm completely wrong! Hooray. I got confused and started associating the class Wu Jen with the name Shugenja and the concept of the Enlightened Fist prestige class. Enlightened Fist can be found in the Complete Arcane and Sacred Fist, a similar monk/spellcaster presitge class, can be found in the Complete Divine.
 
Eskarina said:
Aaaaand I'm completely wrong! Hooray. I got confused and started associating the class Wu Jen with the name Shugenja and the concept of the Enlightened Fist prestige class. Enlightened Fist can be found in the Complete Arcane and Sacred Fist, a similar monk/spellcaster presitge class, can be found in the Complete Divine.

I guess you failed your Knowledge: D&D skill check. ;)

Yeah, someone told me at the time that there was something similar to what I wanted somewhere, but I figured it'd be fun to make my own, and I could make it more to my tastes. At high levels, the class could convert spell levels into pure energy damage. Basically, you take a bunch of spells that you have at at your disposal, and for each spell level so converted you could do 1d6 damage, up to a maximum of whatever your spellcaster level was. Of course, after you channeled the energy, you had to pull of a successful melee attack against a living opponent, and if you didn't within a few rounds, the converted energy would explode inside of you, injuring you and everyone within 10 feet.
 
ArtGuy said:
Eskarina said:
Aaaaand I'm completely wrong! Hooray. I got confused and started associating the class Wu Jen with the name Shugenja and the concept of the Enlightened Fist prestige class. Enlightened Fist can be found in the Complete Arcane and Sacred Fist, a similar monk/spellcaster presitge class, can be found in the Complete Divine.

I guess you failed your Knowledge: D&D skill check. ;)

Yeah, someone told me at the time that there was something similar to what I wanted somewhere, but I figured it'd be fun to make my own, and I could make it more to my tastes. At high levels, the class could convert spell levels into pure energy damage. Basically, you take a bunch of spells that you have at at your disposal, and for each spell level so converted you could do 1d6 damage, up to a maximum of whatever your spellcaster level was. Of course, after you channeled the energy, you had to pull of a successful melee attack against a living opponent, and if you didn't within a few rounds, the converted energy would explode inside of you, injuring you and everyone within 10 feet.
Better hope you land the hit then, and that you are far away from low hit dice creature if you don't. Even 1d6 damage could potentially kill a commoner. The thing about developing house prestige classes is that you have to make sure that it's not overpowered. The best way, really, is to tell your DM the general concept of what you want your character to do, and your DM creates the presitge class you need. It's too tempting to just tailor the prestige class exactly to yourself and to overpower it in doing so. I would love to see the progression on it though, if you have it about.
 
Eskarina said:
Better hope you land the hit then, and that you are far away from low hit dice creature if you don't. Even 1d6 damage could potentially kill a commoner.

That was kinda the point. :) There's an element of danger involved, and if you mess up it could have dire consequences for you and your party.

The thing about developing house prestige classes is that you have to make sure that it's not overpowered. The best way, really, is to tell your DM the general concept of what you want your character to do, and your DM creates the presitge class you need. It's too tempting to just tailor the prestige class exactly to yourself and to overpower it in doing so. I would love to see the progression on it though, if you have it about.

In practice, it always seemed fairly balanced. And alas, nobody else I played with was really qualified to go mucking around with classes. I'd been DMing for 10 years, them for a few months. It all worked out in the end.
 
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