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Daniel 11:37...is the anti-christ going to be Jewish?

Daniel 11 is a prophecy of the "king of the south" and "king of the north" engaged in a "pushing" against each other.(Dan 11:40) that started in the 3rd century B.C.E. and continues down till our day. The designations "king of the south" and "king of the north" are two eventual "kingdoms" that were north and south of the land of Daniel's people and their identities changes over the passage of time.

Daniel 11 begins with an angel saying: "Look ! There will yet be three kings standing for Persia, and the fourth one will amass greater riches than all others. And as soon as he has become strong in his riches, he will rouse up everything against the kingdom of Greece."(Dan 11:2) This ' fourth king ' of Persia was Xerxes I, who "roused up everything against the kingdom of Greece" in 479 B.C.E and lost the battle. He succeeded Cyrus the Great, Cambyses II and Darius Hystaspis as the first "three kings standing for Persia."

Daniel 11:3 says that a "mighty king will certainly stand up and rule with extensive dominion and do according to his will", this being Alexander the Great, who took hold of the throne of Macedonia in 336 B.C.E at the age of twenty years old, following his father's, Philip II, assassination. At the age of 32 though, Alexander the Great died on June 13, 323 B.C.E., "his kingdom (being) broken and...divided toward the four winds". By the year 301 B.C.E., his kingdom was now divided among four of his generals, with Cassander ruling Macedonia and Greece, Lysimachus gaining control over Asia Minor and Thrace, Seleucus I Nicator securing Mesopotamia and Syria and Ptolemy Lagus taking Egypt and Palestine.

By the year 281 B.C.E. only two rival kings remained of the four, Seleucus I Nicator and Ptolemy Lagus. Seleucus established the Seleucid dynasty in Syria, north of Israel, whereas Ptolemy I was over Egypt, south of Israel. With these two kings began the long struggle between "the king of the north" and "the king of the south", described in Daniel 11. God's angel left the names of the kings unmentioned, for the identity and nationality of these two kings would change throughout the centuries.

Traveling over two hundred years forward, at Daniel 11:20, it says that "the king of the north" would "stand up" as an "exactor"("raiser of taxes", King James Bible). This proved to be the first Roman emperor, Octavian, who was known as Ceasar Augustus. He ordered a registration in the year 2 B.C.E., and because of this decree, Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem, resulting in Jesus birth at this foretold location.(Micah 5:2; Matt 2:1-12)

Daniel 11:21 says that "there must stand up in his (Augustus) position one who is depised and they will certainly not set upon him the dignity of the kingdom". This was 54 year old Tiberius Caesar, who assumed power as the Roman emperor and "the king of the north". The Roman Senate feared and hated him. "The dignity of the kingdom" was unwillingly bestowed upon him only after all other likely successors were dead.

Daniel 11:22 says that "the Leader of the covenant" will be broken. This "Leader" was Jesus Christ and the "covenant" is the covenant that God made with Abraham following his obedience to God's command to offer up Isaac.(Gen 22:18) According to the law of "injured majesty", which Tiberius had broadened to include virtually any insult to Caesar, Pilate handed Jesus over to be "broken", or impaled on a torture stake, on Nisan 14, 33 C.E.

Daniel 11:27 moves us forward in time, down to near the end of the 19th century, where it says that "as regards these two kings, their heart will be inclined to doing what is bad, and at one table a lie is what they keep speaking. But nothing will succeed, because the end is yet for the appointed time." The German Reich or Empire became "the king of the north", with Wilhelm I becoming it's first emperor in 1871. Britain stood in the position as "the king of the south".

When Czar Nicholas II of Russia called a peace conference in The Hague, Netherlands, on August 24, 1898, the atmosphere was one of international tension. This conference and the one that followed it in 1907 established the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague. By becoming members of this court, the German Reich as well as Great Britain gave the appearance that they favored peace. They sat “at one table,†appearing to be friendly, but ‘their hearts were inclined to do what was bad.’

The diplomatic tactic of ‘speaking a lie at one table’ could not promote real peace. As to their political, commercial, and military ambitions, ‘nothing could succeed’ because the end of the two kings “ is yet for the time appointed†by God. Gradually forming close ties, Britain and the United States of America became the Anglo-American World Power. Together, they came into the position of "the king of the south".

Daniel 11:36,37 says that "the king (of the north) will actually do according to his own will, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak marvelous things....And to the God of his fathers he will give no consideration; and to the desire of women and to every other god he will give no consideration, but over everyone he will magnify himself."

Fulfilling these prophetic words, the king of the north rejected “the God of his fathers,†such as the Trinitarian divinity of Christendom. The Communist bloc promoted outright atheism. Thus the king of the north made a god of himself, ‘magnifying himself over everyone.’ Giving no consideration “to the desire of womenâ€Ââ€â€subservient lands, such as North Vietnam, that served as handmaids of his regimeâ€â€the king acted “according to his own will.â€Â

Daniel 11:40 says that "in the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him (the king of the north) in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and with horsemen and with many ships." Thus, in our time period, "the time of the end", these two "kings" are engaged in a "pushing", with "the king of the south", the Anglo-American World Power, remaining unchanged. With the disbanding of the Soviet Union in December 1991, the "king of the north" suffered a serious setback. So, who is "the king of the north" that will fulfill Daniel 11:44,45 ? This is yet to be seen.
 
samuel said:
In Revelation, there are two beasts. One from the Sea, and one from the Earth (land). Now the question; which IS the one we call anti-christ.
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The sea beast is the anti-christ who is portrayed as being war-like.
7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.


The earth beast (with horns, speaking like a dragon) is the anti-christs side kick...
"12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed"


samuel said:
No one seems to ever consider this. I have been studying Daniel for the last two days, and looking into this myself. Read from 11:36 to the end of the chapter, and see what you think. Who is this God of forces, and who is this man.
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37He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. 38 Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. Daniel 11:37-39

Possibility #1.
It says "god of fortresses", instead of 'forces' in many translation. It completely contradicts 11:37...where it says he wont regard any god. But I feel 'god of fortresses' is purely symbolic.
One possible theory that the anti-christ is going be an atheist of jewish descent. Israels secular government is far from religious, meaning they allow atheism and other evils of the west, so dont be surprised if an atheist jew ends up in the highest levels of authority in government.

his honoring the 'god of fortresses' with precious stones and costly gifts could simply mean his funding the military.

Possibility # 2.
Another far-fetched theory is that 'god of fortresses' could also indicate a supernatural event where unknown forces are involved...and that this unknown force is "the foriegn god".
But its worthy of consideration , when you read Daniel 11:39 -
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him.
It actually mentions a 'god' other than God who has powers to help. :crazy

It probably indicates a demonic force given temporary power on earth.

I could be wrong on both counts....only God knows.
 
Sinthesis said:
Gabriel Ali said:
Hi Shilohsfoal,

I'm no expert but I don't need to run a word-search. :P

Yes, Muslims believe Christ was the Jewish Messiah :yes
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My bad, I was using 'Messiah' in the Christian sense.

What does the Muslim believe the Jews gave up in rejecting Jesus as their King?
Does the Qur'an say what the world of the 7th century would have looked like had the Jews accepted Jesus as the Jewish Messiah?
Click to expand...

(I know this is off-topic, sorry sk0rpi0n)

Muslims do not view Christ as any sort of King, only a Prophet (albeit, a special one)
They believe that Christ was sent to the Jews to bring them back to the one "true" faith which they believe is Islam, and as sk0rpi0n has already said; they believe he was chosen by Allah to defeat the anti-Christ.
 
Well I followed Adam Clark's link back to the web-site. According to him, he makes the whole book of Revelation past, and done with.

He has to be SDA, or heavily influenced by the same doctrines. So I guess we have nothing to worry about, Because: we must be in Heaven, not quite what I expected. :o
 
Clarke, SDA? :lol Hardly. He was a Methodist and a contemporary of Wesley. Well before the SDA. He is steep in Bible history and could be considered a partial preterist. His commentaries have been well received over the last couple of hundred years. He's definitely of the historical mindset, which believes much of prophecy is history prewritten and has come to pass.

We often ignore historical events as though they never happen and thus, place so much in the future.

One thing is for certain though, Jesus will be back... physically and the Lord's Wrath will commence! :amen
 
The Bible says that some of antichrist will be from the Jews and some of antichrist will be from the gentiles.

So antichrist is made up from all nations, including some of the Jews. In fact ALL the Jews that are not part of the body of Christ, will be part of the body of anti-Christ.

God only sees TWO men (Christ and antiChirst) Mat 24:40 Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:

Mat 13:38 and the field is the world;
 
I see the book of Daniel to an extent! largely fulfilled, but some of the things in the final chapters not!. There are other things to happen besides history, that did not.
I don't see God tarrying around for 1500 years, to finish his business once it is started. In fact the Bible says it will not happen that way.

I see the Seven Churches in Revelation as existent, and as Church progress throughout history, to the present. But as for the rest all future, except some of the things that are coming to pass, even now.

Methodist and Wesleyan, I look at with a squinted eye. As for some things, we (they and I) are miles apart. :)
 
Mt 8;11-12
And I say unto you,That many shall come from the east and west,and shall sit down with Abraham,and Isaac,and Jacob,in the kingdom of heaven.
But the chidren of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness;there shall be weeping and knashing of teeth.

See how those in Israel will be cast out?But what does the scripture say of the Israeli goverment that rules the kingdom now .

Daniel 7;24-27
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise;and another shall rise after them.and he shall be diverse from the first,and he shall subdue three kings.
And he shall speak great words against the most High,and shall wear out the saints of the most High,and think to change times and laws;and they shall be given into his hand untill a time and times and the deviding of time.
But the judgement shall sit,and they shall take away his dominion,to cunsume and to destroy it unto the end.
And the kingdom and dominion,and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High,whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What this means is the forth beast (the devided empire), of Daniel's vision,that dwells in the middle east is made up of ten horns (Independant muslim states)and a little horn
(Israel).It is Israel who is diverse from the first and who in 1967's 6 day war defeated three of those ten.It is into Israel's hand that the 144,000 saints are given.It is Israel's goverment who dominion shall be taken away and given to the people of the saints of the most High. :)

Now check out this video.It shows 5000 years of history in 90 seconds.You will see all four beasts of Daniel's vision along with all 5 kings from the west from Daniels prophecy of the ram and he goat.Pay close attention to the latter part of the video and you can see the horns coming up.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf
 
Josh said:


All you guys out there put interesting post and put your views in, but all of you seem to be missing a big point.


Here's the truth about the antichrist.


First of all, there are many anitchrist, an antichrist is simply someone who rejects christ, and people who try to destroy Christ, so you have to ponder this and then you will realize when the antichrist comes it will be nothing unusaul. :study


The antichrist must come from the Rome, Europe area, so whoever said he will be jewish is either not even an adult or has never read the bible, he will work his way up to power, he will be in direct contact with the devil, and he will have favor with many men. The antichrist will have no desire for women or money, and will gain control by giving a food formula to Israel and then have the world do whatever he wants them to do. Since food is very high right now, this will happen in a short time. He will mot be allowed to be seen on tv or be known by anyone besides the people he knew since he was little until God allows it.

These are the main prophecies about the antichrist, anyone else who seems like him is an antichrist, but not the one that will be interacting with the devil, and anitchrist have lived before, but this one has not, so he is still to come. :nono

This can never happen until all capitalist voices are eradicated and all sense of the old feelings are gone and the merging is 70% rather than 50% as it is now. So some things have to be changed before people can sense a new community welcomeing people and the old one in the trash a long time ago. :shame
 
Joshua ale carter said:
The antichrist must come from the Rome, Europe area, so whoever said he will be jewish is either not even an adult or has never read the bible, he will work his way up to power, he will be in direct contact with the devil, and he will have favor with many men. The antichrist will have no desire for women or money, and will gain control by giving a food formula to Israel and then have the world do whatever he wants them to do. Since food is very high right now, this will happen in a short time. He will mot be allowed to be seen on tv or be known by anyone besides the people he knew since he was little until God allows it.
Click to expand...

I am an adult and I have been reading the bible.
Why do you suppose I quoted Daniel 11:37 to make my case that he would be Jewish?

Secondly, what scriptural evidence can you present in support of your claim that he will be European?

BTW, a european non-jew is going to have a tough time trying to convincing the jews that he is their promised messiah.
 
This is going to be a short response on my account....but I find it odd that we are concerning ourselves with the nation from which the Great Deceiver will draw out the Anti-Christ. No doubt, there is nothing wrong with trying to arm ourselves spiritually for what is to come. I just do not see the point in getting all heated over the nationality or race of a single entity.

To me, though this may be a bit bold of a statement, it is almost like saying because Barack Obama is the U.S. of A's first African American president that he will be good in his station or vice versa. There really is no grounds for it. Scripture can be interepreted so many different ways seeing as a number of us have different perspectives. Rather than point out and say to one another you are wrong, perhaps we just might simply share each other's views and support them the best we can with scripture and leave it at that if we are to debate on the nationality or the like of one who has yet, or could have already surfaced himself on earth.

Just my thoughts. I am sorry if I come off as offensive.

May God Bless You

Danielle
 
Joshua ale carter said:
... The antichrist must come from the Rome, Europe area, so whoever said he will be jewish is either not even an adult or has never read the bible...
Click to expand...
Hi Josh,

There is no need to make this assumption. Many an adult have come to this conclusion. Who's to say they are not adult simply because their interpretation disagrees with your's?

Please refrain from such personal attacks.

Thanks.
 
I would like to comment on Dan. 11:36-37 because I believe it will prove that the antichrist will not be Jewish.

We read in Dan. 11:36-37, "And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any God: for he shall magnify himself above all".

The phrase "he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every God" is quoted in II Thess. 2:4 which speaks of "that man of sin....the son of perdition" (the antichrist, vs. 3,). In other words, Dan. 11:36-37 does indeed refer to the coming antichrist.

Having established that Dan. 11:36-37 refers to the antichrist we are ready to look carefully at this passage which, I believe will tell us that the antichrist will not be Jewish. It is necessary to first consider the various Hebrew words translated "God" or "gods" in this passage.

In the phrase, "shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every God", the Hebrew word translated "God" is "El". "El" is, as stated above, one of Jehovah's titles. But it is also used of false gods. The only way to tell if it is used in reference to Jehovah or to false gods is by the context. It is clear from the phrase "every god" that in this context, "el" refers to false gods, i.e. the antichrist will magnify himself above every and all false gods.

Now let us consider the phrase, "shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods". The Hebrew word translated "God" is also "El". But the God of gods, is Jehovah, so in this case the context tells us that "El" is used as one of the titles of Jehovah. The Hebrew word translated "gods" is "elim". Again the context (in this case the phrase in which it is use), tells us that it refers to false gods. So Jehovah is the God (Heb. "El") of all false gods (Heb. "elim").

In verse 37 we read, "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers". The Hebrew word translated "God" in this phrase is "elohim" (the Hebrew language has no indication of upper or lower case letters). As mentioned above, "elohim" is one of the many titles of Jehovah. But "elohim" is also used of false gods. I will give just three scriptures to prove that point, but there are many more. For example we read in Ex. 12:12 of "all the gods of Egypt". In Ex. 18:11 we read, "The Lord (Heb. Jehovah) is greater than all gods". And in Ex. 20:3 we read, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". With that mind let us come back to the phrase, "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers" as it will tell us that antichrist will not be Jewish.

If we take "elohim" to refer to one of the titles of Jehovah that will tell us that the fathers of the antichrist were Jewish because "elohim" would be a title of Jehovah Who is the God of the Jews. But if "elohim" is used in reference to false gods, that will tell us that the antichrist will not be a Jew because even though Jews did indeed worship false gods in their history, false gods were never the gods of the Jews. Jehovah is the God of Israel. So how can we know which is meant?

Let us, for the sake of clarity, use the Hebrew terms and omit a few phrases that do not help us answer our question. This passage would read, "he ......shall speak marvellous things against the El of elim (i.e. the God of gods).......Neither shall he regard the elohim of his fathers......"

We are told that the antichrist will speak against the El of elim", i.e. the God of gods, who is, of course, Jehovah. Note the word "neither" in the phrase, "neither shall he regard the elohim of his fathers". The word "neither" tells us that the antichrist will do one thing and he will also do something else. He will speak against Jehovah and he will not regard the elohim of his fathers. If we understand the phrase "elohim of his fathers" to refer to Jehovah the "neither" has no meaning. That is to say, it makes no sense to say that the antichrist will speak against Jehovah and not regard Jehovah. But if we understand "elohim" to refer to false gods it all makes sense. That is to say this passage tells us that the antichrist will speak against Jehovah and he will not regard the false gods of his fathers.

Let us also consider the phrase, "for he shall magnify himself above all". The context has to do with the antichrist and his relationship with Jehovah and with false gods. Therefore we may conclude that he will magnify himself above all gods. If we understand "elohim" in the phrase "neither shall he regard the elohim of his fathers" in reference to Jehovah ("elohim" is one of the titles of Jehovah) then we read that the antichrist will speak against Jehovah "for he shall magnify himself above all". But he will not magnify himself above all gods by speaking only against Jehovah. On the other hand if we consider "elohim" to refer to false gods then it makes perfect sense. That is to say, the antichrist will speak against false gods and by doing so he will magnify himself above all false gods.

As for people not beliving he is the Messiah if he is not Jewish: These people will be unbelievers. They will not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Therefore they are looking ofr the first coming of the Messiah (they do not believe in a seconcd coming). Obviously the antichrist will fulfill none of the prophecies of the true Messiah such as a virgin birth etc.

My point is that people believe what they want to believe. In this case unbelievers will want to believe that the antichrist is the true Messiah because they will be rewarded by him.

As for Dan being the tribe from which the Messiah will come, the verse that was quoted is taken out of context. The context has to do with the Babylonian conquest and the Babylonians will enter through the land occupied by Dan.

Just a few thoughts.

In Christ,

Joyce
 
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