David Platt - What Happens to Those Who Never Hear the Gospel

[reba]

But isn't that all of humanity. If we could save ourselves, there would be no need for the blood of Christ. Everybody is lost until they find Christ.

Does the sheep find the shepherd or does the shepherd find the sheep?

 

[Guest]

Does the sheep find the shepherd or does the shepherd find the sheep?

The shepherd finds the sheep because he loved us first before we loved him, but the sheep should still ask, seek and knock Matthew 7:7.

 

[Danus]

Little children, babies, are not gospel subjects as they are already of the "kingdom of heaven": ''But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven" Matt.19:14. Babies and the "inept" (as you call them) are unteachable and in such state cannot believe, yet the Bible says in MK. 16:15,16 and Matt. 28:19-20 that the subjects of the Great Commission of Jesus Christ are to be taught and believe what they were taught.

Correct. Also, Luke 18:16 (NIV) 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. .....and ......,Mark 10:13-15 (NIV) 13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

But how is your points of scripture related to or in opposition my quotes? or is it?

I get the feeling you're reading from me that I don't agree with spreading the Gospel. I'm actually making a couple of points about spreading the Gospel in relation to the original questions.

Point 1. God does not NEED us to spread the Gospel in order that anyone be saved. He can save who he well pleases and does; and or, He can get the Gospel to whomever he wants and does.

Point 2. Our spreading the Gospel is less of a duty and more of a privilege to do so.

Don't let my statement regarding "duty" and "Privilege" be a point of contention. ;) But explore it further. If we see spreading the Gospel as a duty, something that we Christians MUST DO, then there is an "OR ELSE" to it. In this case the "OR ELSE" is that the lost will remain lost. They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct? .....I will let you, or anyone else answer that question; then I'd like to show how the real answer is "No, that's not correct."

PS this may sting a little, but it won't hurt I promise.

 

[Webb]

Correct. Also, Luke 18:16 (NIV) 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. .....and ......,Mark 10:13-15 (NIV) 13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

But how is your points of scripture related to or in opposition my quotes? or is it?

I get the feeling you're reading from me that I don't agree with spreading the Gospel. I'm actually making a couple of points about spreading the Gospel in relation to the original questions.

Point 1. God does not NEED us to spread the Gospel in order that anyone be saved. He can save who he well pleases and does; and or, He can get the Gospel to whomever he wants and does.

Point 2. Our spreading the Gospel is less of a duty and more of a privilege to do so.

Don't let my statement regarding "duty" and "Privilege" be a point of contention. ;) But explore it further. If we see spreading the Gospel as a duty, something that we Christians MUST DO, then there is an "OR ELSE" to it. In this case the "OR ELSE" is that the lost will remain lost. They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct? .....I will let you, or anyone else answer that question; then I'd like to show how the real answer is "No, that's not correct."

PS this may sting a little, but it won't hurt I promise.

Reply to point 1
Only opinions without scriptural support. The subject is ''WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO NEVER HEAR THE GOSPEL", and in previous post IT gave scripture teaching He gave that task into the hands of man, re-read and study them please. The question before us is not what can God do ( He is omnipotent ) but what has He chosen to do. You need only to supply the scripture showing God has chosen to do it without man. Nothing in point 1 that stings.

Reply to poin 2
In giving the Great Commission God made no separation between "privilege" and "duty'', you did that. That commission was given to man and the command is in the imperitive--"Go", Matt.28:18-20, Mark 16:15,16. That places he obligation on man, and an obligation is a duty. In Lk.17 Jesus gives illustration of a master giving orders to his servant which things the servant did. Jesus then concluded in vs. 17: "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, we are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our DUTY (emp.mine) to do." Is this also a privilege? Certainly! The gospel means "good news" and I am humbled that He has placed into our trust this most important treasure. I repeat the suggestion I made in a previous post, read Romans 10:13-16. But while we sit in our comfort zones and argue how and he why of things and split hairs over privilege and duty souls which could be reached are lost. Nothing in point two that stings.

Perhaps rather than stewing about what will happen to those who never hear the gospel we should be concerned about what will happen to servants who are not doing what they can to make disciples.

God bless

 

[Danus]

Correct. Also,
I get the feeling you're reading from me that I don't agree with spreading the Gospel. I'm actually making a couple of points about spreading the Gospel in relation to the original questions.

Point 1. God does not NEED us to spread the Gospel in order that anyone be saved. He can save who he well pleases and does; and or, He can get the Gospel to whomever he wants and does.

Point 2. Our spreading the Gospel is less of a duty and more of a privilege to do so.

Don't let my statement regarding "duty" and "Privilege" be a point of contention. ;) But explore it further. If we see spreading the Gospel as a duty, something that we Christians MUST DO, then there is an "OR ELSE" to it. In this case the "OR ELSE" is that the lost will remain lost. They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct? .....I will let you, or anyone else answer that question; then I'd like to show how the real answer is "No, that's not correct."

Reply to point 1
Only opinions without scriptural support. The subject is ''WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO NEVER HEAR THE GOSPEL", and in previous post IT gave scripture teaching He gave that task into the hands of man, re-read and study them please. The question before us is not what can God do ( He is omnipotent ) but what has He chosen to do. You need only to supply the scripture showing God has chosen to do it without man. Nothing in point 1 that stings.

Reply to poin 2
In giving the Great Commission God made no separation between "privilege" and "duty'', you did that. That commission was given to man and the command is in the imperitive--"Go", Matt.28:18-20, Mark 16:15,16. That places he obligation on man, and an obligation is a duty. In Lk.17 Jesus gives illustration of a master giving orders to his servant which things the servant did. Jesus then concluded in vs. 17: "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, we are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our DUTY (emp.mine) to do." Is this also a privilege? Certainly! The gospel means "good news" and I am humbled that He has placed into our trust this most important treasure. I repeat the suggestion I made in a previous post, read Romans 10:13-16. But while we sit in our comfort zones and argue how and he why of things and split hairs over privilege and duty souls which could be reached are lost. Nothing in point two that stings.

Perhaps rather than stewing about what will happen to those who never hear the gospel we should be concerned about what will happen to servants who are not doing what they can to make disciples.

God bless

So you would answer my question, with a yes? "They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct?" The great commission being Matthew 28:16-20 (NIV) 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I assume your answering in the afirmitive to say that Mankind is tasked and duty bound to spread the Gospel or else those who don't hear it will not be saved. I'm gathering you feel it is a "duty" to do so rather than a privilege in your site.

The only problem I have with that, is that for it to be a duty of the church and not a privilege of the saved, is that if it is a duty before a privilege, then the authority to even do so (Spread the Gospel that is) would have to be given to the duty bound.

Keep in mind that I never said spreading the Gospel is not a commandment. It most certainly is. All I ever said was that it is a privilege before it is a duty. Anyone can simply fulfill a command, but do they have a desire to?

In your last sentence you suggested that "Perhaps rather than stewing about what will happen to those who never hear the gospel we should be concerned about what will happen to servants who are not doing what they can to make disciples." You tell me. what will happen to those saved Christians who do not fulfill their duty bound obligation to spread the Gospel? What will happen to them? As apposed to the ones who spread the Gospel because they can do nothing but spread it, because it is what they have become. Tell me please, or show me in scripture what will happen to those people who don't do it.

 

[farouk]

John 3.18 occurs only two verses after John 3.16.

Guess what? the Gospel is urgent.

Blessings.

 

[Webb]

Correct. Also,
I get the feeling you're reading from me that I don't agree with spreading the Gospel. I'm actually making a couple of points about spreading the Gospel in relation to the original questions.

Point 1. God does not NEED us to spread the Gospel in order that anyone be saved. He can save who he well pleases and does; and or, He can get the Gospel to whomever he wants and does.

Point 2. Our spreading the Gospel is less of a duty and more of a privilege to do so.

Don't let my statement regarding "duty" and "Privilege" be a point of contention. ;) But explore it further. If we see spreading the Gospel as a duty, something that we Christians MUST DO, then there is an "OR ELSE" to it. In this case the "OR ELSE" is that the lost will remain lost. They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct? .....I will let you, or anyone else answer that question; then I'd like to show how the real answer is "No, that's not correct."

Reply to point 1
Only opinions without scriptural support. The subject is ''WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WHO NEVER HEAR THE GOSPEL", and in previous post IT gave scripture teaching He gave that task into the hands of man, re-read and study them please. The question before us is not what can God do ( He is omnipotent ) but what has He chosen to do. You need only to supply the scripture showing God has chosen to do it without man. Nothing in point 1 that stings.

Reply to poin 2
In giving the Great Commission God made no separation between "privilege" and "duty'', you did that. That commission was given to man and the command is in the imperitive--"Go", Matt.28:18-20, Mark 16:15,16. That places he obligation on man, and an obligation is a duty. In Lk.17 Jesus gives illustration of a master giving orders to his servant which things the servant did. Jesus then concluded in vs. 17: "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, we are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our DUTY (emp.mine) to do." Is this also a privilege? Certainly! The gospel means "good news" and I am humbled that He has placed into our trust this most important treasure. I repeat the suggestion I made in a previous post, read Romans 10:13-16. But while we sit in our comfort zones and argue how and he why of things and split hairs over privilege and duty souls which could be reached are lost. Nothing in point two that stings.

Perhaps rather than stewing about what will happen to those who never hear the gospel we should be concerned about what will happen to servants who are not doing what they can to make disciples.

God bless

So you would answer my question, with a yes? "They will not be saved if WE don't fulfill the great commission. Correct?" The great commission being Matthew 28:16-20 (NIV) 16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I assume your answering in the afirmitive to say that Mankind is tasked and duty bound to spread the Gospel or else those who don't hear it will not be saved. I'm gathering you feel it is a "duty" to do so rather than a privilege in your site.

The only problem I have with that, is that for it to be a duty of the church and not a privilege of the saved, is that if it is a duty before a privilege, then the authority to even do so (Spread the Gospel that is) would have to be given to the duty bound.

Keep in mind that I never said spreading the Gospel is not a commandment. It most certainly is. All I ever said was that it is a privilege before it is a duty. Anyone can simply fulfill a command, but do they have a desire to?

In your last sentence you suggested that "Perhaps rather than stewing about what will happen to those who never hear the gospel we should be concerned about what will happen to servants who are not doing what they can to make disciples." You tell me. what will happen to those saved Christians who do not fulfill their duty bound obligation to spread the Gospel? What will happen to them? As apposed to the ones who spread the Gospel because they can do nothing but spread it, because it is what they have become. Tell me please, or show me in scripture what will happen to those people who don't do it.

Hi Danus
You don't have to assume anything, just read my posts on this thread (which begin with # 6) and find I've answered with scripture the subject of this thread along with your questions on "duty" and "privilege".

You wrote: "I assume your answering in the afirmitive to say that Mankind is tasked---to spread the Gospel---." My answer is not "mankind" in general but Christians specifically, "--might be made known by the church the manifold wisdom of God" Eph.3:10.

You ask me to answer what the consequences to God's people are if they fail to keep His command to take the gospel to others and you ask for supporting scripture. I do not call to mind an immediate scripture but consider this: The command to "go" and make disciples was made to disciples. It is an imperitive command. Jesus said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. I shall ask you, in light of this are there consequences for ignoring His commandment (which was the last He made before He left earth)? What say you? Note please the words of Paul: "For though I preach the gospel I have NOTHING TO GLORY OF: FOR NECESSITY IS LAID UPON ME; YEA, WOE IS UPON ME, IF I PREACH NOT THE GOSPEL! (EMP. MINE) , I Cor.9:16. Just what do you think of this word "WOE"? What is involved in it? Now, should you suppose NO consequences are to be experienced for such disobedience please provide "book, chapter and verse".
God bless

 

[Danus]

You ask me to answer what the consequences to God's people are if they fail to keep His command to take the gospel to others and you ask for supporting scripture. I do not call to mind an immediate scripture but consider this: The command to "go" and make disciples was made to disciples. It is an imperitive command. Jesus said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. I shall ask you, in light of this are there consequences for ignoring His commandment (which was the last He made before He left earth)? What say you? Note please the words of Paul: "For though I preach the gospel I have NOTHING TO GLORY OF: FOR NECESSITY IS LAID UPON ME; YEA, WOE IS UPON ME, IF I PREACH NOT THE GOSPEL! (EMP. MINE) , I Cor.9:16. Just what do you think of this word "WOE"? What is involved in it? Now, should you suppose NO consequences are to be experienced for such disobedience please provide "book, chapter and verse". God bless

Hello Webb,
I'm afraid your getting beyond my point. The attempt was to talk about the power of God to spread the Gospel to man, using the saved. I was trying to illustrate the desire that the saved have to do this via the holly spirit in them, and how that duty, is more of a privilege than just a command. In saying that, there are no saved servants of God who do not spread the Gospel. I'll drop it and move on.

 

[gr8grace]

You ask me to answer what the consequences to God's people are if they fail to keep His command to take the gospel to others and you ask for supporting scripture. I do not call to mind an immediate scripture but consider this: The command to "go" and make disciples was made to disciples. It is an imperitive command. Jesus said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. I shall ask you, in light of this are there consequences for ignoring His commandment (which was the last He made before He left earth)? What say you? Note please the words of Paul: "For though I preach the gospel I have NOTHING TO GLORY OF: FOR NECESSITY IS LAID UPON ME; YEA, WOE IS UPON ME, IF I PREACH NOT THE GOSPEL! (EMP. MINE) , I Cor.9:16. Just what do you think of this word "WOE"? What is involved in it? Now, should you suppose NO consequences are to be experienced for such disobedience please provide "book, chapter and verse". God bless

Hello Webb,
I'm afraid your getting beyond my point. The attempt was to talk about the power of God to spread the Gospel to man, using the saved. I was trying to illustrate the desire that the saved have to do this via the holly spirit in them, and how that duty, is more of a privilege than just a command. In saying that, there are no saved servants of God who do not spread the Gospel. I'll drop it and move on.

I agree Danus, and can see what you are saying.

It is a command to us to spread the Gospel, but to do it out of the Motivation of duty is wrong. We should do it out of motivation of Love and appreciation for what he has done for us. If it is just a duty to us God will still use our message if it is the correct Gospel, but we lose blessings from Him if we think that our "work" out of Duty is worth something.

God wants a heart motivated by Grace, Not a heart motivated out of a sense of Duty.

His command to spread the Gospel seems to be a privilege to a grace orientated believer. It seems to be a command to work(duty) to a works orientated believer.

 

[Danus]

Thank you gr8grace. That's kind of my point and to the OP, and the question of what of those who do not hear, I think God does more to get the word to them using us then we know.

I focus on the people around me. I figure, these are my circumstances, these are the people God placed me with and these are the people God will reflect himself to through me if I am connected to Him. If God needs me to go to some place else in the world, He will send me there, or I will be placed there in some way.

 

[Webb]

You ask me to answer what the consequences to God's people are if they fail to keep His command to take the gospel to others and you ask for supporting scripture. I do not call to mind an immediate scripture but consider this: The command to "go" and make disciples was made to disciples. It is an imperitive command. Jesus said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. I shall ask you, in light of this are there consequences for ignoring His commandment (which was the last He made before He left earth)? What say you? Note please the words of Paul: "For though I preach the gospel I have NOTHING TO GLORY OF: FOR NECESSITY IS LAID UPON ME; YEA, WOE IS UPON ME, IF I PREACH NOT THE GOSPEL! (EMP. MINE) , I Cor.9:16. Just what do you think of this word "WOE"? What is involved in it? Now, should you suppose NO consequences are to be experienced for such disobedience please provide "book, chapter and verse". God bless

Hello Webb,
I'm afraid your getting beyond my point. The attempt was to talk about the power of God to spread the Gospel to man, using the saved. I was trying to illustrate the desire that the saved have to do this via the holly spirit in them, and how that duty, is more of a privilege than just a command. In saying that, there are no saved servants of God who do not spread the Gospel. I'll drop it and move on.

I agree Danus, and can see what you are saying.

It is a command to us to spread the Gospel, but to do it out of the Motivation of duty is wrong. We should do it out of motivation of Love and appreciation for what he has done for us. If it is just a duty to us God will still use our message if it is the correct Gospel, but we lose blessings from Him if we think that our "work" out of Duty is worth something.

God wants a heart motivated by Grace, Not a heart motivated out of a sense of Duty.

His command to spread the Gospel seems to be a privilege to a grace orientated believer. It seems to be a command to work(duty) to a works orientated believer.

Hi gr8grace
Perhaps you didn't notice but I covered the subject of "privilege" and "duty" in my post # 24. They go hand in hand.
God bless

 

[P31Woman]

I agree with Webb,
in that I see "no separation between "privilege" and "duty''"

Most foreign missionaires I know have told me at times it's so very difficult the only thing keeping them in the field is the "call". I see that as duty. It's their duty - call that keeps them pressing on.

Most of these people and their families have at times gone without needed badly medical care, food, clean drinking water, proper shelter or lived under the fear of real persecution to the point of torture and death because they tell others about Jesus Christ. Some have been beaten and put in jail because they refuse to stop preaching/teaching the good news.

I believe they would say it's both their duty and privilege to suffer for Christ.

 

[Webb]

I am past my four score years and can honestly say that I've never met a Christian who labors only because they feel its a "duty bound" thing. Maybe I just havn't lived long enough yet.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I am now reading the book "Radical" by David Platt.

It has been a long time since I was impressed with a new book.

This man really has something good going on.

 

[gr8grace]

I am now reading the book "Radical" by David Platt.

It has been a long time since I was impressed with a new book.

This man really has something good going on.

Hello Brother,

David Platt is a smooth talker and a LS(lordship salvation) proponent.

He is not a free grace believer and promotes a "works" based salvation. Be careful with Him and His teachings. http://www.freegracealliance.com/pdf/DRIVEN_byB_Bauer.pdf

Platt:
“To be born-again, one must repent, turn from sin and self, and believe, trust in Jesus as the Savior who died for us and the Lord who rules over us.”....Lordship salvation.

Grace.....to be born again one must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their salvation, Acts 16:31. And That grace is a FREE gift to all who believe, Eph 2:8-9. Repent is to change ones mind about who Christ is.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Platt: “To be born-again, one must repent, turn from sin and self, and believe, trust in Jesus as the Savior who died for us and the Lord who rules over us.”....Lordship salvation.

I'll finish the book before I comment on this.
From what I have read so far, he is not saying this.
But I can see him being misconstrued for saying this.
I'll reserve my judgment when I finish.