Incorrect. Apologetics is for defending the faith of the apostles and prophets, which I do.
Again, this is not an apologetics issue, this is a theological one and you're engaging in polemical theology.
You defend the faith of "Proto-Catholics" as the Orthodox call you.
Protestantism, despite its differences with Catholicism, retains many elements that were part of the Catholic tradition before the Reformation. And God is blasphemed throughout the earth because of your infidelity to the scriptures.
Says the one who has "Free Will Reformed Baptist" under his username and is, therefore, a Protestant.
What you call "Orthodox" I call novelty, doctrines unknown to Christ and His apostles.
Unless you put this thread in Apologetics, where I can debate you, I'm done with this board.
That's fine, but why are you so adamant this go to apologetics? We can debate right here.
PS: I've updated the exegesis of scripture proving postmortem salvation, check it out. Just click the #Letter
Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity for Salvation is explicit or implicit:
Dt. 32:39 [#A]; ...
Rev. 20:11-15[#Y];
[#Z]
Deu 32:39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Nothing even implied about a PMOS. It plainly and simply states that God can kill and make alive. This is about physical death and living, not salvation after death. Not even close.
1Sa 2:6 The LORD kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
Again, no PMOS is even implied. It could possibly be referring to resurrection, but it could also just mean that God brings life, and so "raises up," in general. That would be supported by verses 5 and 7.
2Sa 22:5 “For the waves of death encompassed me, the torrents of destruction assailed me;
2Sa 22:6 the cords of Sheol entangled me; the snares of death confronted me.
2Sa 22:7 “In my distress I called upon the LORD; to my God I called. From his temple he heard my voice, and my cry came to his ears.
But, what is the context?
2Sa 22:1 And David spoke to the LORD the words of this song on the day when the LORD
delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul.
Again, no PMOS is even implied. David is clearly speaking figuratively of when God delivered him from his enemies. Nothing more. Don't you find it odd that you keep insisting David is speaking literally, when no such incident is mentioned in Scripture? Besides, even if David had died and come back to life, how would that even imply a PMOS? That's a resurrection but that doesn't necessarily mean he would have been saved while dead.
Psa 16:10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.
Psa 16:11 You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Psa 30:1 A Psalm of David. A song at the dedication of the temple. I will extol you, O LORD, for you have drawn me up and have not let my foes rejoice over me.
Psa 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried to you for help, and you have healed me.
Psa 30:3 O LORD, you have brought up my soul from Sheol; you restored me to life from among those who go down to the pit.
Psa 30:4 Sing praises to the LORD, O you his saints, and give thanks to his holy name.
Psa 40:1 To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. I waited patiently for the LORD; he inclined to me and heard my cry.
Psa 40:2 He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure.
Psa 40:3 He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many will see and fear, and put their trust in the LORD.
Again, nothing in these to even imply PMOS. It is, once again, David thanking God for his deliverance.
Hos 13:14 I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol; I shall redeem them from Death. O Death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where is your sting? Compassion is hidden from my eyes.
This certainly does not imply a PMOS. This is speaking of God's eventual redemption of his people from the power of death, and ultimately fulfilled when Christ returns:
1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1Co 15:55 “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
A PMOS is also not even implied in Jon 2:1-10, Mat 12:30-32, John 5:28-29, Rom 11:25-36, 1 Cor 5:5, Eph 4:8-10, and 1 Pet 3:19. The closest you get are Zech 9:11 and 1 Pet 4:6. But, Zech 9 is talking about God delivering the Israelites and there is much debate as to what Peter is referring to. The
most we can say is that there
could be the
possibility that God will give the righteous who died in the OT an opportunity to believe in Christ. However, given that a couple of them seemed to have gone to heaven apart from that, it could also be that the righteous who died under the old covenant, such as Abraham, were declared righteous by God are had salvation already. Who knows.
What we do know, is that there is not only not a single explicit statement about a PMOS and no clear implicit ones, but there are at least a couple of passages which explicitly state that there isn't one. Heb 9:27-28 and Rev 20:11-15 actually prove your position to be incorrect. I have no idea how you can think those support a PMOS. You're reading something into those passages which isn't there.
You are far too strong in your position on this, going well beyond any clear statement of Scripture and ignoring context in the process. This should be a very lightly held, humble opinion on your part, not a response-demanding, Protestant-bashing, name-calling, prideful, strongly held position as though it was an absolute certainty.
