Death and the Hope of Heaven

[Maedchen]

Death for the believer is distinctly different from what it is for the unbeliever. For us, it isn't something to be feared or shunned, for we know death is but the shadowed threshold to the palace of God.
( Billy Graham)

"I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far."
(Philippians 1:23)

Are you looking forward to that day when you will go to be with Christ, "which is better by far"?

 

[taikina]

it's distinctly different but i want to correct one point. as an unbeliever, i and many more like me don't fear death. when i was small i feared death but i have come to understand it more now. what i actually fear is that i don't get to experience enough as i live or that my death will be painful. i fear growing older too, but i don't fear dying. all these fears dissipate as i grow older and wiser and come to accept life as it is: of certain duration, not really long or short and yet both. so i don't shun death, i embrace life.

living eternally, in heaven OR hell, would bring about endless cycles of infinite nightmares, ecstasy, catatonia and everything in between. because infinity is kinda wack like that

 

[Claudya]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did.

That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

 

[Maedchen]

it's distinctly different but i want to correct one point. as an unbeliever, i and many more like me don't fear death. when i was small i feared death but i have come to understand it more now. what i actually fear is that i don't get to experience enough as i live or that my death will be painful. i fear growing older too, but i don't fear dying. all these fears dissipate as i grow older and wiser and come to accept life as it is: of certain duration, not really long or short and yet both. so i don't shun death, i embrace life.

living eternally, in heaven OR hell, would bring about endless cycles of infinite nightmares, ecstasy, catatonia and everything in between. because infinity is kinda wack like that

Dear taikina,

thank you for explaining your view. And I understand it.

I agree that we don't have to fear death itself. The people that I had the privilege to accompany during their process of dying seemed all to be relieved after finally leaving their earthly body. The expression on their faces told me so.

Once during educational training in hospital, I was at work when one old patient began to enter his final stage of dying.
The family members came and asked me outside of his room, if he would die soon. As I knew from the doctors, I answered them yes, and they began to cry. All of them told me that they could not stand to go into his room and see him in his final battle. So I went inside and took this old man into my arms. He breathed heavily, couldn't open his eyes. No doctor or nurse came although everyone knew he was in his last minutes on earth.
As I spoke quietly to him about Heaven, he seemed to relax a bit.
I remember how he breathed for the very last time, his face near to mine. The air went out of his mouth, and I believed that in this moment, his soul went to be with Christ.
For me that is a wonderful memory. I know that death itself is the breaking of chains that hold us captivated in our lives.

Eternity in Heaven will be peaceful and free of chains. That is what I hope.

 

[Maedchen]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did.

That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

Dear Claudya,

I have read some of your interesting comments on this forum. Thus I know from your own words that you struggle yourself with various issues. I might say that I really admire your perseverance. With all you are going through, you still are encouraging for others. Thank you.

Regarding the statement of Paul, I have to say that I personally know some people who openly ( not secretly) stated that they wished to die soon, in order to be with Christ and their beloved who went before them.
My own grandma for example wished so much to die and be reunited with her parents. That was when I was twelve years old. Naturally I said that she couldn't really mean it. But she repeated her wish with tears, and half a year later I knew that she was happier now in Heaven.

You know, dear Claudya, we are here on earth ordered to believe by faith, not by sight.
But how wonderful it will be to see our dear Lord face to face after death. How peaceful and full of love our existence will be then in Heaven.
Paul had the privilege to hear Jesus' voice on his way to Damascus, so his faith was rooted in that personal encounter with Christ. Still he longed for the day when he would see Him in Heaven, the day Paul would die.

Most of us don't experience anything similar to Paul, still we believe. And those who can't wait to meet Jesus in Heaven, I am convinced, are very much believing what they are wishing for.

Love, Maedchen

 

[JLB]

Are you looking forward to that day when you will go to be with Christ, "which is better by far"?

Yes!

But I know I am needed here to finish my course.


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

"everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die".

That's an old saying (or song).

When I was a child and in great pain, I wanted to go to heaven and be with God so he would take the pain away.

When I was a young man feeling great, I wanted to live and live it up.

As I get older and my body starts breaking down, I more and more desire to be in heaven.

Right now, my wife and I have learned to live one day at a time and enjoy every moment that God gives us here on Earth until it is time to move on.

There is a season for everything.

Amen!

 

[JLB]

"everyone wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die".

That's an old saying (or song).

When I was a child and in great pain, I wanted to go to heaven and be with God so he would take the pain away.

When I was a young man feeling great, I wanted to live and live it up.

As I get older and my body starts breaking down, I more and more desire to be in heaven.

Right now, my wife and I have learned to live one day at a time and enjoy every moment that God gives us here on Earth until it is time to move on.

There is a season for everything.

Amen!

Amen!

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did. That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

Kinda makes you wonder why believers don't place themselves on the front lines or in dangerous occupations at a far more higher clip than non believers doesn't it?

 

[Deborah13]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did. That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

Kinda makes you wonder why believers don't place themselves on the front lines or in dangerous occupations at a far more higher clip than non believers doesn't it?

Remember Paul allowed himself to be lowered over a wall to escape. Paul wanted to go to be with the Lord but he knew he had a job to do.
If every Christian were to think that they should try to die, because they would be better off instead of doing the job of a disciple what would happen to the message? Who would carry it on?
A mother decides she'd rather be with the Lord, who raises her children, a gift God has given her not someone else. That would just be selfish?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did.

That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

I agree.

When it comes to actually believing, most Christians pale in comparison to suicide bombers.

I think a lot of the difference in "actions vs. proclaimed beliefs" starts at a young age. As a child raised in a church-going household, you see all of the adult Christians around you vigorously proclaiming their belief in Heaven, so you fall right into place and become the same kind of adult. As a child living in this mystery of an existence, you see all of the adults around you afraid to die(for the most part), and strongly grieving for lost loved ones, which is natural. So, you grow up somehow being able to separate what you think you believe with what you actually believe(based upon your actions in real live scenarios).

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Keeps me wondering. If we expect death to be an improvement, then why is it we christians aren't the most deathwishing, suicidal bunch on earth? Okay, maybe because God doesn't want fr us to commit violence against ourselves, so suicide is out of question. But I never heard any christian say that they secretly wish they'd die soon so they can be with Christ, like Paul did. That's why I'm suspecting many christians don't really believe in what they say they believe.

Kinda makes you wonder why believers don't place themselves on the front lines or in dangerous occupations at a far more higher clip than non believers doesn't it?

Remember Paul allowed himself to be lowered over a wall to escape. Paul wanted to go to be with the Lord but he knew he had a job to do.
If every Christian were to think that they should try to die, because they would be better off instead of doing the job of a disciple what would happen to the message? Who would carry it on?
A mother decides she'd rather be with the Lord, who raises her children, a gift God has given her not someone else. That would just be selfish?

Nice try, Deborah, but you fail to explain the intense horror on the mother's face if one of her children accidently "goes to Heaven" before she does.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

If every Christian were to think that they should try to die, because they would be better off instead of doing the job of a disciple what would happen to the message? Who would carry it on? A mother decides she'd rather be with the Lord, who raises her children, a gift God has given her not someone else. That would just be selfish?

I don't know how selfish that would be D. If you think about it, it's a grand display of faith and trust in the hope of Heaven. That display of faith would be a testimony to the world of one's committment and would serve to have believer stand out as a peculiar people that are willing to risk their lives in faith.

I see no reason why parents that rear believing children wouldn't teach their children as they believe and bring them into harms way with them as well. If the children lose their lives, they have the hope of being with Jesus so to them death would be gain.

To clarify I'm not saying believers should jump out of planes with faulty parachutes or go deep sea diving or anythings like that (though why not take some wise risks). What I am saying is that believers should be 1st responders and man dangerous occupations that help society because it is godly to do so and because it is a display of active faith where a person's life is their witness.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

So, you grow up somehow being able to separate what you think you believe with what you actually believe(based upon your actions in real live scenarios).

Self deceit is a powerful thing my friend. No telling how much we lie to ourselves about daily in order to help us make sense of the world in light of the perspectives we've been given.

 

[Deborah13]

As a child living in this mystery of an existence, you see all of the adults around you afraid to die(for the most part), and strongly grieving for lost loved ones, which is natural.

This isn't how all children are raised. My 8 yr old grandson has this figured out. He told me, "Grandma, I don't want you to ever die." I told him not to worry, I would be with Jesus. He told me, " I know, but I will miss you." His grief is not for me but for himself being without me.

He also understands the difference between being afraid of 'how' one dies compared to actually dying. Big difference.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

So, you grow up somehow being able to separate what you think you believe with what you actually believe(based upon your actions in real live scenarios).

Self deceit is a powerful thing my friend. No telling how much we lie to ourselves about daily in order to help us make sense of the world in light of the perspectives we've been given.

No doubt, my friend. No doubt.

"Looking at the bright side" is a popular form of this. I do it all the time. I imagine that it actually helps me through the day.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

As a child living in this mystery of an existence, you see all of the adults around you afraid to die(for the most part), and strongly grieving for lost loved ones, which is natural.

This isn't how all children are raised. My 8 yr old grandson has this figured out. He told me, "Grandma, I don't want you to ever die." I told him not to worry, I would be with Jesus. He told me, " I know, but I will miss you." His grief is not for me but for himself being without me.

He also understands the difference between being afraid of 'how' one dies compared to actually dying. Big difference.

Yeah, maybe I should have clarified my point better. The part about naturally being afraid of death and seeing the adults around you acting naturally towards death isn't the thing being actually learned by the child. It's this simultaneous fear coupled with constant proclamations in anticipation of Heaven that is learned by the child.

 

[Deborah13]

Nice try, Deborah, but you fail to explain the intense horror on the mother's face if one of her children accidently "goes to Heaven" before she does.

Nice try yourself, as I was not addressing this question, at all. :0

So let's talk about that. I was an EMT in our small town (pop. around 700 with the ranches included) for several years. When you got a call 99 times out of a hundred you would know that person or their family. They are friends, neighbors, people you knew from the school or church. People you picnic, etc.

We get a call to meet the husband of my friend at the clinic, two year old boy fell in an irrigation ditch and was swept away. It had taken his dad and friend 20 mins to find him tangled in the willows underwater.
My friend, his mother, is a Christian I know how she grieved. She grieved for herself, her other two children, and for her husband who was going through a terrible time. His guilt over the years changed him. But she knew her baby was with Jesus and she knew that she would see little Garret again.
Her faith and strength in this situation and through out the rest of her marriage was a witness to the power of Jesus in one's life.

Of coarse there is horror, as you put it, when one hears their child has died suddenly and maybe in a horrible way. In this case, I felt horror and shock. But that is not to say what they believe about dying and eternity.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Of coarse there is horror, as you put it, when one hears their child has died suddenly and maybe in a horrible way. In this case, I felt horror and shock. But that is not to say what they believe about dying and eternity.

Good points. In death the grief felt is primarily based on the feelings of loss and hurt the surviving loved ones endure.

 

[Deborah13]

It's this simultaneous fear coupled with constant proclamations in anticipation of Heaven that is learned by the child.

We don't give children enough credit, me thinks. (that's my grandson speaking Yoda). Uncle Mike was a Christian we believe we will see him in heaven. But the way Uncle Mike died was a slow and awful existence. At 50 he suffered a stroke the paralyzed him on one side. He could no longer speak or eat (feeding tube). His wife took care of him at home for three long years. He finally died in his sleep.
I would not want to die this way, a burden on my family. I have a Christian friend who said she was afraid to die. I asked her why, because she is afraid it might be painful.
If our children do not understand it is because we have failed to explain it.

What I have a problem with is telling a child who has lost their parent, that God needs them in heaven. Then that child will wonder why God would need their daddy more than they do? After all, I'm just a little child, God is all powerful, why couldn't He use someone else. And what could he possibly be doing in heaven for God?
Now that's just making things up and confusing a child. It's better just to say, you don't know why they died, than to give them nonsense. Children are not stupid. But sometimes adults don't want to admit they just don't know right now. Maybe someday they will see.