Definition of Sin

[elijah23]

I think we can be perfect:

That's borderline blasphemous, personally... Only the Lord Jesus Christ can be a perfect man. We will all fall short of His sinless life. You are fooling yourself if you think we, mere humans, can live sinless lives.

Read this article, it should help you see your errors.

http://www.compassdistributors.ca/topics/sinless.htm

I quoted Jesus. You call that borderline blaspheme?

 

[Pard]

I quoted Jesus. You call that borderline blaspheme?

No, not the scripture, your declaration of the ability to live a sinless and perfect life. Well, maybe blaspheme was the wrong word, it sounded good at the time. But we are of earthly flesh! We will continue to sin regardless of the Spirit within us and we will sin until the day our earthly bodies die.

It is being human, it is impossible to be a perfect man, and this is where I saw the blaspheme, because to be a perfect man means to be God Himself, and that is not possible for you and I. So you see, I saw blaspheme in your statement because the Lord is perfect, and only the Lord is perfect and to assert perfection ore the ability to obtain perfection is the assert your godliness.

Did not Adam and Eve eat the from the tree to obtain knowledge? One can extrapolate from this that they wished to be more than they were (see; perfection), yet in making such an attempt to reach a more perfect state of being they became sinners and ushered in sin for all man!

We cannot live sinless lives. I don't know how many times I gotta say it to you!

Go pray on it and God can show you this truth that I speak.

 

[elijah23]

I quoted Jesus. You call that borderline blaspheme?

No, not the scripture, your declaration of the ability to live a sinless and perfect life. Well, maybe blaspheme was the wrong word, it sounded good at the time. But we are of earthly flesh! We will continue to sin regardless of the Spirit within us and we will sin until the day our earthly bodies die.

It is being human, it is impossible to be a perfect man, and this is where I saw the blaspheme, because to be a perfect man means to be God Himself, and that is not possible for you and I. So you see, I saw blaspheme in your statement because the Lord is perfect, and only the Lord is perfect and to assert perfection ore the ability to obtain perfection is the assert your godliness.

Did not Adam and Eve eat the from the tree to obtain knowledge? One can extrapolate from this that they wished to be more than they were (see; perfection), yet in making such an attempt to reach a more perfect state of being they became sinners and ushered in sin for all man!

We cannot live sinless lives. I don't know how many times I gotta say it to you!

Go pray on it and God can show you this truth that I speak.

We have all sinned. However, Jesus said we must be perfect. Therefore we have to stop sinning, right?

 

[Pard]

You can try to stop sinning, and we should, we should never march toward sin openly, however the stop sinning entirely is impossible to do in these bodies we occupy on earth. Do you understand that? We can try, and we should, but we cannot receive perfection.


1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Was the Lord your physical father? Was your mother a virgin when she gave birth to you? Is your physical body the sprout of the Lord's seed? Of course not! So you cannot live a sinless life, and this is where I say the blasphemy in your statement above.

 

[elijah23]

it is impossible to be a perfect man,

This is a contradiction to what Jesus said:

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48 RSV

 

[elijah23]

You can try to stop sinning, and we should, we should never march toward sin openly, however the stop sinning entirely is impossible to do in these bodies we occupy on earth. Do you understand that? We can try, and we should, but we cannot receive perfection.


1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Was the Lord your physical father? Was your mother a virgin when she gave birth to you? Is your physical body the sprout of the Lord's seed? Of course not! So you cannot live a sinless life, and this is where I say the blasphemy in your statement above.

You keep saying we can’t be perfect when Jesus says we must be perfect.

 

[Pard]

You keep saying we can’t be perfect when Jesus says we must be perfect.

I have noticed you like to focus on single quotes and ignore the things around them... context is a great thing... The Bible can only be understood as a whole, not as a clipping that shows your side of the story... stop hanging onto single lines and embrace the entire book!

:amen

 

[elijah23]

You keep saying we can’t be perfect when Jesus says we must be perfect.

I have noticed you like to focus on single quotes and ignore the things around them... context is a great thing... The Bible can only be understood as a whole, not as a clipping that shows your side of the story... stop hanging onto single lines and embrace the entire book!

:amen

We call ourselves Christians and then ignore his words, don’t we?

 

[Pard]

You keep saying we can’t be perfect when Jesus says we must be perfect.

I have noticed you like to focus on single quotes and ignore the things around them... context is a great thing... The Bible can only be understood as a whole, not as a clipping that shows your side of the story... stop hanging onto single lines and embrace the entire book!

:amen

We call ourselves Christians and then ignore his words, don’t we?

I am not ignoring His Word at all... Not to be rude, but I have been ignoring your use of the quote, but for ha-ha's I shall address it.

You see, you are reading this line to plainly, what it truly means, when we embrace the entire Bible, for it is all His Word, you will see that we can only be perfect in comparison to our level of spiritual maturity. The Lord doesn't hold us to the perfection of Jesus Christ, as He knows we cannot attain it. The Lord also knows that as we grow spiritually we can be more and more perfect, though never completely perfect. We can only be perfect in consideration to how the Lord views us a spiritual people, our spiritual maturity. We can be perfect to the level of maturity the Lord prescribes to us, but there is always room to become more perfect.

But fear not! For we shall be perfect one day, when our bodies die and the Lord calls us up to sit y His side, then, for we are spiritual creatures then, we can be perfect! So, yes Jesus tells us to be perfect, and on earth we can try, but we will never achieve that. However, when we look at the WHOLE picture (and not a single line) you shall see that earth is merely the beginning and we will be perfect, like the Lord Jesus said, just not here on earth, in this sin-ridden bodies.

 

[elijah23]

I am not ignoring His Word at all... Not to be rude, but I have been ignoring your use of the quote, but for ha-ha's I shall address it.

You see, you are reading this line to plainly, what it truly means, when we embrace the entire Bible, for it is all His Word, you will see that we can only be perfect in comparison to our level of spiritual maturity. The Lord doesn't hold us to the perfection of Jesus Christ, as He knows we cannot attain it. The Lord also knows that as we grow spiritually we can be more and more perfect, though never completely perfect. We can only be perfect in consideration to how the Lord views us a spiritual people, our spiritual maturity. We can be perfect to the level of maturity the Lord prescribes to us, but there is always room to become more perfect.

But fear not! For we shall be perfect one day, when our bodies die and the Lord calls us up to sit y His side, then, for we are spiritual creatures then, we can be perfect! So, yes Jesus tells us to be perfect, and on earth we can try, but we will never achieve that. However, when we look at the WHOLE picture (and not a single line) you shall see that earth is merely the beginning and we will be perfect, like the Lord Jesus said, just not here on earth, in this sin-ridden bodies.

My point was this—that the words of Jesus are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and I hardly ever hear people quote those four books. I just quoted Jesus saying that we must be perfect, and you disagreed with Jesus, didn’t you?

 

[Pard]

My point was this—that the words of Jesus are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and I hardly ever hear people quote those four books.

Oh really? I must be in the wrong thread, it appears to me that your point was that we must be sinless...

I just quoted Jesus saying that we must be perfect, and you disagreed with Jesus, didn’t you?

I suggest you read my post over and than maybe a third or fourth time (if that is what it takes), you see, I agreed with Jesus, totally, I simply disagreed with your CONTEXT of that quote. We must be wary of taking things out of context, that is a tactic atheists constantly use. Don't fall into their way of thinking!

 

[elijah23]

My point was this—that the words of Jesus are found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and I hardly ever hear people quote those four books.

Oh really? I must be in the wrong thread, it appears to me that your point was that we must be sinless...

I just quoted Jesus saying that we must be perfect, and you disagreed with Jesus, didn’t you?

I suggest you read my post over and than maybe a third or fourth time (if that is what it takes), you see, I agreed with Jesus, totally, I simply disagreed with your CONTEXT of that quote. We must be wary of taking things out of context, that is a tactic atheists constantly use. Don't fall into their way of thinking!

I am saying we need to strive for perfection now.

 

[Pard]

I am saying we need to strive for perfection now.

Great, but the only way you are going to reach perfection any time soon is if you die... and I pray you don't die, so "perfection now" (sounds like a good campaign slogan for Obama) is not obtainable in this current earthly state, we can only be perfect in relation to the level the Lord holds us at in spiritual maturity, but that is only relative perfection, like saying that rapist is perfect because he only raped one person, compared to that dude who raped four and blew up a building and killed 20.

 

[elijah23]

I am saying we need to strive for perfection now.

Great, but the only way you are going to reach perfection any time soon is if you die... and I pray you don't die, so "perfection now" (sounds like a good campaign slogan for Obama) is not obtainable in this current earthly state, we can only be perfect in relation to the level the Lord holds us at in spiritual maturity, but that is only relative perfection, like saying that rapist is perfect because he only raped one person, compared to that dude who raped four and blew up a building and killed 20.

Jesus said we need to repent and that we need to be perfect. I would assume he wants us to go to work on that now. I don’t think he wants us to put it off until we die and then make him take care of it for us. He expects us to put forth some effort, I believe.

If you’ve ever sinned, you know how miserable it makes you feel afterwards. Therefore, you make a mental note: Don’t do that again.

 

[Pard]

Jesus said we need to repent and that we need to be perfect. I would assume he wants us to go to work on that now. I don’t think he wants us to put it off until we die and then make him take care of it for us. He expects us to put forth some effort, I believe.

I seriously wonder if you read my posts, sometimes! I didn't say "put it off" I said we should TRY to be sinless, but it will never happen while we reside in these physical bodies.

--The argument you put forward reminds me of the atheist argument that "If you accept Jesus and receive the H.S. what do you have to do good, aren't you saved?"

And yes, we are still saved, even if you entered into a life of complete sin. But that will not happen, because if you really have the H.S. you will always strive to be sinless. --

So the point of that little spiel above is just to say that even if my last post seemed to imply that we will not be sinless until we die so, "why worry" I didn't mean it that way. I felt it was an implied point that once you receive the H.S. you will always work towards a sinless life (for the spirit is sinless, it is the body that causes the problems)!

 

[elijah23]

Jesus said we need to repent and that we need to be perfect. I would assume he wants us to go to work on that now. I don’t think he wants us to put it off until we die and then make him take care of it for us. He expects us to put forth some effort, I believe.

I seriously wonder if you read my posts, sometimes! I didn't say "put it off" I said we should TRY to be sinless, but it will never happen while we reside in these physical bodies.

--The argument you put forward reminds me of the atheist argument that "If you accept Jesus and receive the H.S. what do you have to do good, aren't you saved?"

And yes, we are still saved, even if you entered into a life of complete sin. But that will not happen, because if you really have the H.S. you will always strive to be sinless. --

So the point of that little spiel above is just to say that even if my last post seemed to imply that we will not be sinless until we die so, "why worry" I didn't mean it that way. I felt it was an implied point that once you receive the H.S. you will always work towards a sinless life (for the spirit is sinless, it is the body that causes the problems)!

I think there are people who achieve a state of blamelessness in this life:

Blessed are those whose way is blameless,
who walk in the law of the LORD! Psalms 119:1 RSV

 

[Pard]

There is a HUGE difference between sinless and blameless.

Noah was blameless, remember? Genesis 6:9

This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.

Yet Noah still sinned. He got drunk and was naked before his children. This is a sin...

So being blameless doesn't mean you cannot be sinful, it means you walk close to the Lord and you love and obey the Lord.

See how it says "blameless among the people of his time"? It means he of all these people was blameless in that "he walked with God", while no one else did (which know since the Lord killed the rest of them!)

 

[elijah23]

There is a HUGE difference between sinless and blameless.

Noah was blameless, remember? Genesis 6:9

This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God.

Yet Noah still sinned. He got drunk and was naked before his children. This is a sin...

So being blameless doesn't mean you cannot be sinful, it means you walk close to the Lord and you love and obey the Lord.

See how it says "blameless among the people of his time"? It means he of all these people was blameless in that "he walked with God", while no one else did (which know since the Lord killed the rest of them!)

No, I think blamelessness means obeying the Lord’s statutes:

May my heart be blameless in thy statutes,
that I may not be put to shame! Psalms 119:80 RSV

We’ve all sinned. There’s nothing to prevent us from repenting of our sin and becoming blameless, is there?

 

[Pard]

No, I think blamelessness means obeying the Lord’s statutes

Sure, when we obey the Lord's Law we are close to Him, its kind of the way we become close to the Lord. Still, doesn't mean you are sinless. Actually, not even sure your point in saying that... since that pretty much backs up what I was saying before, unless you were just agreeing (not used to that, we have yet to agree on anything we have talked about!)

We’ve all sinned. There’s nothing to prevent us from repenting of our sin and becoming blameless, is there?

Just temptation and Satan...

 

[elijah23]

No, I think blamelessness means obeying the Lord’s statutes

Sure, when we obey the Lord's Law we are close to Him, its kind of the way we become close to the Lord. Still, doesn't mean you are sinless. Actually, not even sure your point in saying that... since that pretty much backs up what I was saying before, unless you were just agreeing (not used to that, we have yet to agree on anything we have talked about!)

We’ve all sinned. There’s nothing to prevent us from repenting of our sin and becoming blameless, is there?

Just temptation and Satan...

Okay, temptation and Satan are the enemies. We agree on that.

Righteousness is so beautiful, we become slaves to it:

[17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
[18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:17-18RSV

[1] Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
[2] but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night. Psalms 1:1-2 RSV