Bible Study Deuteronomy 22:5

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

“A woman is not to wear male clothing, and a man is not to put on a woman’s garment, for everyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord your God." - CSV

Each version I've seen says the same thing, it is a very clear bible verse.
I've never actually heard of Deuteronomy before today. Is this proof of God's stance on transgenderism?

That one is basically to suffer from gender dysphoria and seek to distract oneself, as opposed to "transitioning"?
Kind of like a homosexual (like myself) is to ignore the Lust based desire and stick to heterosexual monogamy.

I also think it is important to note that rates of transgender suicide are significantly higher post transition.

Please be respectful to each other if someone says something you disagree with, as I understand this is a controversial topic.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've never actually heard of Deuteronomy before today. Is this proof of God's stance on transgenderism?

Transgenderism was impossible back then, sister, so this was simply a reference to a man dressing effeminately or a woman assuming a masculine appearance. Engaging in transgenderism would be after the fact, and an advance on this sin... and then some.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I also think it is important to note that rates of transgender suicide are significantly higher post transition.

That may be due to the fact that they simply can't find their true identity, and this is why God commanded to identify with the gender He created us with. He gave us our identity through the anatomy we were born with.

Some women may not be as effeminate as others, and some men not as masculine, but we should not rebel against whichever gender God chose for us. Not all men have to be the same, nor do all women, but men are still men and women are still women.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Some women may not be as effeminate as others, and some men not as masculine, but we should not rebel against whichever gender God chose for us. Not all men have to be the same, nor do all women, but men are still men and women are still women.

Let me expound a little more here. You see, God ordained that things correspond to the order in which He created them. This was actually a big teaching in ancient Judaism. The sun was supposed to set at its appointed time, the stars were to shine at theirs, the moon was to wax and wane as ordained. The wind and the waves, and the bearing of fruit, each in its own due season; everything was thought to be in keeping with the way God ordained if life proceeded as normal, and out of keeping if things turned into chaos and the order of things was thrown out of balance. God even compared the angels that sinned with stars that no longer shone their spiritual "light."

12 These [sinful] people are blemishes at your love feasts... clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. (Jude 1:12-13)

Following the order of things where gender was concerned was just another aspect of the same principle, hence the commandment. Those who were God's obeyed the order of things as He created for life on earth. Those who did not were often goaded into rebelling against it, hence why the Gentiles are said to have been given over to what was "unnatural."

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1)

 

[for_his_glory]

I really can not add more to what Hidden In Him has already given you, but would like you to read these scriptures,
Leviticus 20:10-21 and Romans 1:18-32.

 

[Tenchi]

“A woman is not to wear male clothing, and a man is not to put on a woman’s garment, for everyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord your God." - CSV

Each version I've seen says the same thing, it is a very clear bible verse.
I've never actually heard of Deuteronomy before today. Is this proof of God's stance on transgenderism?

Yes, it is. God did not put men in women's bodies, or vice versa. "Male and female created He them" the Bible says, and to confuse this design, as modern Woke culture seeks to do, is to corrupt the work of the Great Designer, who is God. Our Creator knows what He is doing - far, far, far better than we do. To acknowledge this, as we ought to do, requires that we arrange ourselves under God's authority and design, not the contortions of His design popular in 21st century western cultures.

That one is basically to suffer from gender dysphoria and seek to distract oneself, as opposed to "transitioning"?
Kind of like a homosexual (like myself) is to ignore the Lust based desire and stick to heterosexual monogamy.

Gender dysphoria is not some genetic thing, beyond a person's power to alter or control. People think their way into gender dysphoria and it's possible to adopt different thinking and come free of it. Though, the journey into such darkness is always easier than the journey out of it, which is why God warns us to be very careful of our thought-life, bringing everything into subjection to His authority and Truth. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

A person who becomes a born-again disciple of Jesus, a Christian, has been given a "new nature," the "life of Christ," that frees them from the person they used to be apart from God, bound in self-deception, selfishness and sin.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:4-8
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

The "new, Christ nature" is a spiritual one, but it alters the born-again person so profoundly that Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Don't be deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

There are no transgendered Christians, no homosexual Christians, no alcoholic Christians, no bi-polar Christians; there is no person who has been "made new" by the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ -Romans 8:9) coming to live within them who is anything other than a "temple of the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19-20) bought with the price of Christ's shed blood and broken body. He has washed, separated unto himself, and made righteous all those in whom the Holy Spirit has come to dwell. (Titus 3:5-8; 1 Corinthians 1:30)

When a Christian adds a sin-identifier to their title of Christian - homosexual Christian, drug-addicted Christian, ex-con Christian, etc. - they are lying to themselves about who they really are. "Old things are passed away," God says to us in His word, "behold, all things are become new." Spiritually, we are joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), seated with him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), reconciled to, and at peace with, God (Colossians 1:13-22), made a child of God who can come boldly unto God's throne of grace (Romans 8:15; Hebrews 4:14-16; Hebrews 10:19-22). These and many other things are what are true of the born-again person in whom the Holy Spirit has come to dwell, not their old sin-centered, God-defying identity.

"The me I see is the me I'll be." If I see myself first as a homosexual, or adulterer, or criminal, or addict, and then a Christian, it is to that sin-identified person that I will be conformed in my living. No one ever became like Christ by thinking of themselves in terms of their sin. And so, God tells us to abandon the practice of identifying ourselves this way and identify instead with who we have become in Christ Jesus. We're to "look unto Jesus" and "consider him" (Hebrews 12:2-3), we're to "behold the glory of the Lord" and as we do, the Holy Spirit changes us, making us more and more like the one whose glory we are beholding (2 Corinthians 3:18). We are to count on the truth of who God says we are as His adopted children, denying the temptation to see ourselves as the sin-bound person we used to be, standing with our full weight upon who God says have become (Romans 6:11).

Refuse, then, to frame your identity in terms of your sin. If you have trusted in Christ as your Savior and Lord, you are a born-again child of God. Period.

Ephesians 5:8-11
8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness...

I also think it is important to note that rates of transgender suicide are significantly higher post transition.

God promises that death of some kind waits for all who live in sin.

Proverbs 16:25
25 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death...

James 1:13-15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption...

Romans 8:6
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death...

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

I don't entirely agree with what you said but I appreciate the reply

 

[Tenchi]

I don't entirely agree with what you said but I appreciate the reply

Well, it's not important that you agree with me. It is SUPER important, though, that you agree with God. This is why everything I wrote I supported with Scripture. And so, if you do disagree with me, you disagree also with God on whose truth I've grounded my comments. That's a really dangerous place to inhabit, sister.

 

[JLB]

“A woman is not to wear male clothing, and a man is not to put on a woman’s garment, for everyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord your God." - CSV

Each version I've seen says the same thing, it is a very clear bible verse.
I've never actually heard of Deuteronomy before today. Is this proof of God's stance on transgenderism?

That one is basically to suffer from gender dysphoria and seek to distract oneself, as opposed to "transitioning"?
Kind of like a homosexual (like myself) is to ignore the Lust based desire and stick to heterosexual monogamy.

I also think it is important to note that rates of transgender suicide are significantly higher post transition.

Please be respectful to each other if someone says something you disagree with, as I understand this is a controversial topic.

Once homosexuality is identified as a spiritual issue, then it can be resolved by spiritual cleansing.


The world (culture) seeks to confuse mankind so that they never discover the real “root” problem.


Let look at a couple of verses to identify some real truth.


For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Romans 1:26-27

• for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural

• in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts

To key words that teach us the truth:

exchanged
abandoned


The truth is nobody is “born” a homosexual. They exchanged or abandoned the natural sexual desire for an unnatural sexual desire.

Some external force not inherit in the natural genetic makeup of an individual male or female, has exerted itself upon the person to cause them to exchange and or abandon their natural sexual desire for an unnatural one.






JLB

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

Well, it's not important that you agree with me. It is SUPER important, though, that you agree with God. This is why everything I wrote I supported with Scripture. And so, if you do disagree with me, you disagree also with God on whose truth I've grounded my comments. That's a really dangerous place to inhabit, sister.

Lol that is kinda arrogant. You are not God. Your personal opinions are not necessarily God's. Your response wasn't just verses from the Bible (God's word) it was your personal opinion. You dragged other things into this including mental illness' and homosexuality. None of those are referred to in Deuteronomy 22:5 you are drawing conclusions on my views and essentially going on a huge rant of your personal interpretation of the bible. Please tell me where God says anything DIRECTLY about bipolar. He doesn't. That is your personal interpretation.

You cannot say to someone "it's fine if you disagree with me"

And then say "but if you disagree with me you disagree with God."

It is arrogant, gaslighty and very offensive as we are all religious people.

You have drawn so much sh just from my original post which was LITERALLY just asking about a SPECIFIC bible verse. I have 0 interest in your personal opinions and ramblings. Only specific bible verses.

As you have displayed, bible verses can be manipulated into whatever you want. You sir are the one against God by doing this. You are manipulating his word.

Deuteronomy 22:5 is extremely clear no matter which version of the bible you use. It cannot be manipulated into having anything to do with homosexuality and bipolar disorder.

I am going to stick you on ignore. I am God's child, very happy to be, I love him and I am learning how to honor his word. I will not honor you, as you are merely man, you are not God nor are you a prophet of God. Come down from your pedestal. Good day.

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

I love how people are dragging their own opinions, beliefs and other subjects when Deuteronomy 22:5 is one of the clearest bible verses I've ever seen lol and is about femininity/masculinity having relevance to gender as God intended and not cross-dressing (which would indicate he is against transgenderism). I'm amazed something as clear as this verse can ignite people to freely ramble about other things to this extent lol

This sh is exactly why people think we are just angry preachy "bigots" 2

 

[Hidden In Him]

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

When a Christian adds a sin-identifier to their title of Christian - homosexual Christian, drug-addicted Christian, ex-con Christian, etc. - they are lying to themselves about who they really are. "Old things are passed away," God says to us in His word, "behold, all things are become new."

Well, it's not important that you agree with me. It is SUPER important, though, that you agree with God. This is why everything I wrote I supported with Scripture. And so, if you do disagree with me, you disagree also with God on whose truth I've grounded my comments. That's a really dangerous place to inhabit, sister.

Greetings, Tenchi.

I think you are interpreting a number of the passages you quoted improperly, but it would be a lot to explain. But let's at least start with 2 Corinthians 5:17. You are interpreting this to mean that a Christian - a true Christian, that is - would never have sin in their lives or they have not become truly born again, is that correct?

 

[for_his_glory]

Lol that is kinda arrogant. You are not God. Your personal opinions are not necessarily God's. Your response wasn't just verses from the Bible (God's word) it was your personal opinion. You dragged other things into this including mental illness' and homosexuality. None of those are referred to in Deuteronomy 22:5 you are drawing conclusions on my views and essentially going on a huge rant of your personal interpretation of the bible. Please tell me where God says anything DIRECTLY about bipolar. He doesn't. That is your personal interpretation.

You cannot say to someone "it's fine if you disagree with me"

And then say "but if you disagree with me you disagree with God."

It is arrogant, gaslighty and very offensive as we are all religious people.

You have drawn so much sh just from my original post which was LITERALLY just asking about a SPECIFIC bible verse. I have 0 interest in your personal opinions and ramblings. Only specific bible verses.

As you have displayed, bible verses can be manipulated into whatever you want. You sir are the one against God by doing this. You are manipulating his word.

Deuteronomy 22:5 is extremely clear no matter which version of the bible you use. It cannot be manipulated into having anything to do with homosexuality and bipolar disorder.

I am going to stick you on ignore. I am God's child, very happy to be, I love him and I am learning how to honor his word. I will not honor you, as you are merely man, you are not God nor are you a prophet of God. Come down from your pedestal. Good day.

What Tenchi gave you in post #6 is the truth from the very word of God. Not to be arrogant, but to help you grow in knowledge. These are not opinions or his views, but what God has already had written through His Prophets and Apostles. He is only trying to help you you, not to debase you. I'm asking you to consider that of what those scriptures say and not to take offense of them or him.

It's not any different then what Hidden In Him and I gave you with scripture. We are all sinners saved by God's grace, but we are not perfect, but being perfected daily as each of us struggle with certain sins in our life, but bring these burdens we carry to the throne of God's grace to help us be more Christ-like in all we do and say. It's a process as we move forward in Christ.

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

What Tenchi gave you in post #6 is the truth from the very word of God. Not to be arrogant, but to help you grow in knowledge. These are not opinions or his views, but what God has already had written through His Prophets and Apostles. He is only trying to help you you, not to debase you. I'm asking you to consider that of what those scriptures say and not to take offense of them or him.

It's not any different then what Hidden In Him and I gave you with scripture.

God said something about bipolar??

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

I have ignored Tenchi so I cannot see the post to which you refer. But please let me know where God mentions bipolar or other mental illness' as directly as he has mentioned an opposition to crossdressing.

It is clear I agree with deuteronomy 22:5 from my post. It is not me who blew this into something vastly different.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have ignored Tenchi so I cannot see the post to which you refer. But please let me know where God mentions bipolar or other mental illness' as directly as he has mentioned an opposition to crossdressing.

It is clear I agree with deuteronomy 22:5 from my post. It is not me who blew this into something vastly different.

Any type of mental illness does not come from God, but from the dark principalities of this world, which is Satan who wants nothing more then to kill, steal and destroy, John 10:10, as he is the father of lies, John 8:44, as all of us were made in the image of God and He does not put sickness upon us.

If you truly want to overcome and be obedient to God's commands as you walk in the Spirit being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit please go read Ephesians 6:10-16 as this is the only way to deal with the flesh.

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

Any type of mental illness does not come from God, but from the dark principalities of this world, which is Satan who wants nothing more then to kill, steal and destroy, John 10:10, as he is the father of lies, John 8:44, as all of us were made in the image of God and He does not put sickness upon us.

If you truly want to overcome and be obedient to God's commands as you walk in the Spirit being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit please go read Ephesians 6:10-16 as this is the only way to deal with the flesh.

I actually completely agree with all of this. I know it isn't God's doing. He can help me heal from it though. Thats actually exactly what I also believe.

I just felt it is misleading to imply there is no such thing as a homosexual christian or a bipolar christian.

I'm a non practicing homosexual and mental illness is a part of my life. But I cannot expect these things to be completely gone as soon as I'm baptised, or as soon as I've finished studying the bible, or as soon as I've prayed a certain number of times etc. It is a work and requires effort. Effort to abstain from sinful desires. Gluttony, wrath and lust. (I have an eating disorder, I self harm/substance use and I'm homosexual) They won't disappear. Satan is always trying to tempt us away from God. It's a consistent effort to resist temptation and trust God aka have faith.

I'm not in total disagreeance with you or Tenchi

I actually only disagreed with Tenchi on a small part (the no such thing as a christian with the above mentioned sins) and saying that because I disagree with them I disagree with God, without Tenchi or anyone else for that matter, even knowing which bit precisely I was disagreeing with.

The original post is about 1 verse. It relates to wearing the garments of the opposite sex. I agreed with Tenchi on this relevant matter. And I agree with you on the post I'm quoting.

Thanks for reading. And if you have anything to add about Deuteronomy 22:5 I'm absolutely all ears. I'm here to learn God's word.

 

[for_his_glory]

I actually completely agree with all of this. I know it isn't God's doing. He can help me heal from it though. Thats actually exactly what I also believe.

I just felt it is misleading to imply there is no such thing as a homosexual christian or a bipolar christian.

I'm a non practicing homosexual and mental illness is a part of my life. But I cannot expect these things to be completely gone as soon as I'm baptised, or as soon as I've finished studying the bible, or as soon as I've prayed a certain number of times etc. It is a work and requires effort. Effort to abstain from sinful desires. Gluttony, wrath and lust. (I have an eating disorder, I self harm/substance use and I'm homosexual) They won't disappear. Satan is always trying to tempt us away from God. It's a consistent effort to resist temptation and trust God aka have faith.

I'm not in total disagreeance with you or Tenchi

I actually only disagreed with Tenchi on a small part (the no such thing as a christian with the above mentioned sins) and saying that because I disagree with them I disagree with God, without Tenchi or anyone else for that matter, even knowing which bit precisely I was disagreeing with.

The original post is about 1 verse. It relates to wearing the garments of the opposite sex. I agreed with Tenchi on this relevant matter. And I agree with you on the post I'm quoting.

Thanks for reading. And if you have anything to add about Deuteronomy 22:5 I'm absolutely all ears. I'm here to learn God's word.

I certainly can not speak for Tenchi , but I think he might of meant not to label oneself as a homosexual Christian, but to say I am a Christian, but I am dealing with homosexuality or bi-polar or whatever struggle one is going through.

 

[JLB]

God said something about bipolar??

Yes.

Here is what He said about bipolar, or mental illness in any form --

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
2 Timothy 1:7

• but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

The Spirit of God which He has given us is to establish us with a sound mind.

He leads us in the ways of righteousness to restore our soul and renew our mind.

He loves us and wants the best for us, but we must follow His ways.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2





JLB

 

[Tenchi]

Lol that is kinda arrogant. You are not God. Your personal opinions are not necessarily God's. Your response wasn't just verses from the Bible (God's word) it was your personal opinion.

Well, no, it isn't that I'm imposing my opinion on God's word, making the Bible fit my views, but exactly the other way 'round. I don't see how its "arrogant" to align myself with what God says...

You dragged other things into this including mental illness' and homosexuality. None of those are referred to in Deuteronomy 22:5

No, they aren't mentioned in Deuteronomy 22:5. But my main point in my remarks to you was about how a person who is a born-again Christian ought to see him/herself; it was not particularly about mental illness or homosexuality. You seemed to have missed this, unfortunately.

You cannot say to someone "it's fine if you disagree with me"

And then say "but if you disagree with me you disagree with God."

It is arrogant, gaslighty and very offensive as we are all religious people.

Not if what I've said I've grounded firmly in what God's word plainly says. And this is the case with what I wrote to you. Feel free to demonstrate where I've used Scripture in a false way.

You have drawn so much sh just from my original post which was LITERALLY just asking about a SPECIFIC bible verse. I have 0 interest in your personal opinions and ramblings. Only specific bible verses.

Well, if I've rambled, it's been a ramble through the word of God, which is fine with me. I'm old. It's what old people do.

I'd be interested to know how what I've written to you is just "my opinion." Can you show how the verses I offered and what I wrote based on them misalign? Oh, and how is it not "just your opinion" that my post was "just my opinion"? And if it is just your opinion, which it seems to be, can I dismiss your opinions as false and arrogant like you're doing with mine? That seems fair, don't you think?

As you have displayed, bible verses can be manipulated into whatever you want. You sir are the one against God by doing this. You are manipulating his word.

Well, my dear, saying so doesn't make it so. Can you show that I have "manipulated God's word"? I'm all eyes.

I am going to stick you on ignore. I am God's child, very happy to be, I love him and I am learning how to honor his word. I will not honor you, as you are merely man, you are not God nor are you a prophet of God. Come down from your pedestal. Good day.

*Sigh* You can lead a horse to water...