Did Christ Rise On Saturday Or Sunday?

[makingwisethesimple]

I'm struggling to see how this is at all important?

The truth is always important.

There are varying degrees of importance for truth. It's true that this morning i had toast with peanut butter and a cup of coffee but if someone was ardently convinced i had a bowl of cereal and a juice i'm not going to waste my time arguing because as far as things go, it simply isn't one of the biggies.

Whether Jesus rose on Saturday or Sunday matters not one bit to how i live my life, or to how i worship God (which may well be a matter of how i live my life). That the early church broke from Jewish tradition of meeting on a Saturday and began to meet on Sunday seems to me to provide evidence enough that (1) the church had begun to break away from its Jewish roots and become a separate entity; and (2) that the early Christians felt there was significance to the day they now meet on.

But as i say, it doesn't change one thing either way.

 

[Lewis]

I'm struggling to see how this is at all important?

The truth is always important.

There are varying degrees of importance for truth. It's true that this morning i had toast with peanut butter and a cup of coffee but if someone was ardently convinced i had a bowl of cereal and a juice i'm not going to waste my time arguing because as far as things go, it simply isn't one of the biggies.

Whether Jesus rose on Saturday or Sunday matters not one bit to how i live my life, or to how i worship God (which may well be a matter of how i live my life). That the early church broke from Jewish tradition of meeting on a Saturday and began to meet on Sunday seems to me to provide evidence enough that (1) the church had begun to break away from its Jewish roots and become a separate entity; and (2) that the early Christians felt there was significance to the day they now meet on.

But as i say, it doesn't change one thing either way.

It matters not to you, but to millions of others it does. And are you telling me, that the false teaching that Jesus, rose on a Sunday is not important ?

 

[makingwisethesimple]

It matters not to you, but to millions of others it does. And are you telling me, that the false teaching that Jesus, rose on a Sunday is not important ?

In the grand scheme of things, yes that is exactly what i'm saying.

This kind of discussion is a luxury that first world countries can entertain. It's certainly not as important as the plethora of far more damaging false teachings. It's most assuredly not as important as the prevalence of child soldiers in Africa, sex trafficking, the AIDS crisis in Africa, global poverty, high rates of suicide, the rape of the environment.

How many of those people do you think care about this discussion? Does this discussion help them at all?

 

[Lewis]

Well one more time, it is still important, we are supposed to study and try to find out all truth, at least as much as possible. You can go your whole life thinking that Jesus got up on Sunday, and you would be wrong. And millions have went their whole lives thinking just that, because they never learned, or nobody ever told them that it was false doctrine. So yes this is important stuff.

 

[makingwisethesimple]

Well one more time, it is still important, we are supposed to study and try to find out all truth, at least as much as possible. You can go your whole life thinking that Jesus got up on Sunday, and you would be wrong. So yes this is important stuff.

Are you going to interact with my argument or just keep asserting over and over that this is important?

 

[Lewis]

If you are talking about world hunger the dying poor, aids and and other stuff.
What person in their right mind, does not know that stuff is important. I deal with all kinds of stuff in the street ministry that I belong to. This forum is for the kind of topics that I started

 

[Mysteryman]

If you are talking about world hunger the dying poor, aids and and other stuff.
What person in their right mind, does not know that stuff is important. I deal with all kinds of stuff in the street ministry that I belong to. This forum is for the kind of topics that I started

Hi

Correct ! The opportunity to share with others, so that they can be more aware. If someone is wrong in their understanding. Even you and myself, then someone should be able to show where we are wrong. However, I havn't seen this as of yet. And I wonder if we ever will. Which shows me at least, that there is not much of a desire to know the truth, or at the very least discuss it amongst the members of the church.

Interesting, eh ?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Here we go again! Every time it nears to Easter we "resurrect" this topic. :D

Jesus died late Nisan 14 to fulfill the feast of Passover.
He was interred for the start of Nisan 15 to fulfill the feast of Unleavened Bread.

He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights (not how long he was dead, but how long he was "in the heart of the earth").

That is all of Nisan 15, 16, and 17.

He then arose as Nisan 18 started, which was a Sunday (late Saturday by our calendar reckoning) and this fulfilled the Sunday feast of Firstfruits (Pentecost was also 7 weeks later on a Sunday). Passover and Unleavened Bread are fixed dates, but Firstfruits and Pentecost are movable taking place on a Sunday. There is no Scripture that states the dates of Firstfruits and Pentecost like Passover, Unleavened Bread, and later Trumpets, Atonement and Tabernacles has.

Using simple math, that means Jesus died late on Wednesday, was interred by Jewish reckoning at sundown as Thursday commenced. Then He arose 3 days later as the Sabbath closed and Sunday commenced.

Now, if anyone wants to debate these concrete dates the bible gives, then be ready to be mathematically refuted because nothing else works no matter how one tries to fit 5 lbs of mud in a ten pound bag and make it sound reasonable. Pure and simple indisputable math (and prophecy).

 

[Mysteryman]

Here we go again! Every time it nears to Easter we "resurrect" this topic. :D

Jesus died late Nisan 14 to fulfill the feast of Passover.
He was interred for the start of Nisan 15 to fulfill the feast of Unleavened Bread.

He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights (not how long he was dead, but how long he was "in the heart of the earth").

That is all of Nisan 15, 16, and 17.

He then arose as Nisan 18 started, which was a Sunday (late Saturday by our calendar reckoning) and this fulfilled the Sunday feast of Firstfruits (Pentecost was also 7 weeks later on a Sunday). Passover and Unleavened Bread are fixed dates, but Firstfruits and Pentecost are movable taking place on a Sunday. There is no Scripture that states the dates of Firstfruits and Pentecost like Passover, Unleavened Bread, and later Trumpets, Atonement and Tabernacles has.

Using simple math, that means Jesus died late on Wednesday, was interred by Jewish reckoning at sundown as Thursday commenced. Then He arose 3 days later as the Sabbath closed and Sunday commenced.

Now, if anyone wants to debate these concrete dates the bible gives, then be ready to be mathematically refuted because nothing else works no matter how one tries to fit 5 lbs of mud in a ten pound bag and make it sound reasonable. Pure and simple indisputable math (and prophecy).

Hi there

Yes, it does come down to simple math. So why can't you do simple math ? According to your explanation, he rose from the dead on the fourth day. Your explanation is more than three days and three nights ! He was not put in the sepulchre at sundown. He was put into the tomb before sunset. When darkness has fully come, then this is sunset. Sunset starts the beginning of a new day. He was put into the sepulchre before sunset and he rose from the dead before sunset - Saturday.

Sunset is not when the sun goes down. Sunset is darkness according to scripture, which occures after the sun goes down. Words carry certain meanings, and if we ignore the meanings, we then can not fully understand the true meaning. Or in this case, the timing of Jesus being put into the tomb.

And for your information , the word "Easter" is a pagan word. And should not even be in our bibles !

 

[tim-from-pa]

Yes, it does come down to simple math. So why can't you do simple math ? According to your explanation, he rose from the dead on the fourth day.

Actually I can considering I had straight A's in calculus and what I said makes sense. It's because I do that I could not claim to believe in any other time periods. Nowhere in the scripture (the KJV anyway) does it say he rose "on the third day" It says "the third day" i.e. equivalent to 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:40), 72 hours or "after 3 days" so Wednesday sundown until Saturday Sundown fits that time span exactly. Sunday is the first day (or the forth from his interment) of His being alive again. The 3 days and 3 nights ("the third day") has to do with his time in the tomb. Firstfruits has to do with resurrection---- apples and oranges.

I don't want to make this into a "rising on the Sabbath" issue to justify keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath can stand on its own without the resurrection. Resurrection is the first day or alternately the eighth day which is the biblical number of new beginnings. Sabbath is Millennium. Eighth day is New heavens and New Earth.

 

[Mysteryman]

Yes, it does come down to simple math. So why can't you do simple math ? According to your explanation, he rose from the dead on the fourth day.

Actually I can considering I had straight A's in calculus and what I said makes sense. It's because I do that I could not claim to believe in any other time periods. Nowhere in the scripture (the KJV anyway) does it say he rose "on the third day" It says "the third day" i.e. equivalent to 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:40), 72 hours or "after 3 days" so Wednesday sundown until Saturday Sundown fits that time span exactly. Sunday is the first day (or the forth from his interment) of His being alive again. The 3 days and 3 nights ("the third day") has to do with his time in the tomb. Firstfruits has to do with resurrection---- apples and oranges.

I don't want to make this into a "rising on the Sabbath" issue to justify keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath can stand on its own without the resurrection. Resurrection is the first day or alternately the eighth day which is the biblical number of new beginnings. Sabbath is Millennium. Eighth day is New heavens and New Earth.

Hi

The key is when his body was put in the tomb. Anyone can count three days and three nights, even with a 5th grade education.

 

[tim-from-pa]

The key is when his body was put in the tomb. Anyone can count three days and three nights, even with a 5th grade education.

Agreed. The starting day of his entombment was Thursday Nisan 15 at the very beginning. 3 days and 3 nights later is Nisan 18 at the very beginning. Glad that's straightened out.

 

[Mysteryman]

The key is when his body was put in the tomb. Anyone can count three days and three nights, even with a 5th grade education.

Agreed. The starting day of his entombment was Thursday Nisan 15 at the very beginning. 3 days and 3 nights later is Nisan 18 at the very beginning. Glad that's straightened out.

Hi

False

Although , many believe whatever they want and desire, without checking the scriptures to see if it is so or not. This is called blind faith. tim_from_pa said it, and he is an "A" student , so it must be true. :biglol

 

[tim-from-pa]

Mysteryman:

You claim Jesus died on Wednesday and arose Saturday just before Sunset. I don't see the problem. That's basically what I am saying.

But the Lord sees the Resurrection as the first day of the week to fulfill firstfruits which took place on Sunday. If sunset was 6:00PM, and I say he arose 6:05PM for the 18th, but you say 5:55PM before sundown, would it make you feel any better if I conceded on that?

He died on Nisan 14 to fulfill the Passover.
He was interred at the start of Nisan 15 to fulfill the Unleavened Bread
Three days and three nights later takes you to Nisan 18, but if you have to have him raise on a Saturday, then to fulfill the requirements of 72 hours, at best it would have to be very late Saturday.

However, what are we to do with Nisan 18, the Firstfruits? We have to then understand this day is supposed to be recognized by God as the first day of His new life again, otherwise there is no point in the feast day. Or to put it another way, even if he arose late Saturday, the feasts require the Firstfruits of His resurrection to be observed Sunday for whatever reason.

You talk about staying with the bible, I am staying with the bible and I cannot see anything more mathematically accurate than applying the whole series of events to the feasts and also to the time span Jesus said he'd be in the tomb. Nothing else works.

 

[Mysteryman]

Mysteryman:

You claim Jesus died on Wednesday and arose Saturday just before Sunset. I don't see the problem. That's basically what I am saying.

But the Lord sees the Resurrection as the first day of the week to fulfill firstfruits which took place on Sunday. If sunset was 6:00PM, and I say he arose 6:05PM for the 18th, but you say 5:55PM before sundown, would it make you feel any better if I conceded on that?

He died on Nisan 14 to fulfill the Passover.
He was interred at the start of Nisan 15 to fulfill the Unleavened Bread
Three days and three nights later takes you to Nisan 18, but if you have to have him raise on a Saturday, then to fulfill the requirements of 72 hours, at best it would have to be very late Saturday.

However, what are we to do with Nisan 18, the Firstfruits? We have to then understand this day is supposed to be recognized by God as the first day of His new life again, otherwise there is no point in the feast day. Or to put it another way, even if he arose late Saturday, the feasts require the Firstfruits of His resurrection to be observed Sunday for whatever reason.

You talk about staying with the bible, I am staying with the bible and I cannot see anything more mathematically accurate than applying the whole series of events to the feasts and also to the time span Jesus said he'd be in the tomb. Nothing else works.

Hi Tim

There is no doubt the interest this subject brings up. However, where we can find fault, is basically in the lack of information category.

The word - Nisan is a pagan word for this month. The more accurate wording is the word - "Abib" - Deut. 16:1

Paganism is all around us. The days of the week, the names of the months etc. Nisan and Abib are closely aligned. So many use the word "Nisan" instead of the word - "Abib". The word "Nisan" comes from the pagan (Babylonian) god for - "spring"

To observe the passover (Deut. 16:1) God wanted Israel to remember that He brought them out of Egypt by night. Thou shalt eat no leavened bread for seven days. This started the first day of the week - and ended on the seventh day of the week. Jesus ate the passover meal with his disciples. But he was our passover, the passover lamb. And his body could not remain on the cross, nor could his body not be placed in a tomb after the day of preparation. Which was the 14th day. Unleavened, means unrisen. Before sunset , which is complete darkness. Christ's body was taken down just before even had fully come, and placed in a tomb by Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus. In the place where Christ was crucified, Jospeh already had a tomb in preparation for his own death. They put Jesus in this tomb before total darkness. They came back to the tomb within the darkness to wrap Christ in linen and also apply spices of myrrh and aloes. - John 19:38 - 42

Christ was placed in the tomb before darkness, which means before sunset. So if we use 6 pm as a rounded rule of thumb. Then he was placed in the tomb just before 6pm, which would have been sunset = darkness. The next day was a sabbath day, one of the weekly sabbath days of passover. The next day starts just after 6 pm, of what we would call the previous day. Meaning, that our wednesday ends at midnight, but not back them. The next day starts at sunset, or around 6pm. They could not put the Lord's body in the tomb on the next day, or the sabbath day. This sabbath day was also a day of rest - Luke 23:56.

According to the observance of the passover, they could do no work until the seven days were passed. This is why the women did not come until the first day of the week, and not until morning, because it also was a part of the passover - Deut. 16:8

Now we must key in on the part of the keeping of the passover that is key. Christ was that unleavened bread = unrisen. Deut. 16:4 tells them that that which was sacrificed is not to remain at all during the night. Don't read this verse with your western mind, this must be read with your eastern mind set.

Lets read the end of this verse 4 - "the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning" < If you read this improperly, you will read that it is saying the sacrifice is to remain all night until the morning, if read with an western mind set. But with an eastern mind set, it is saying, not to leave the sacrfice remain at all until morning. Which means no part will remain at any part of the night until morning. Jesus Christ's body was taken down, so that it would not remain there at any part of the night . Also read Exodus 34:25.

Take three nights and then three days from this point, and just before sunset = darkness = just before 6 pm on the seventh day, Christ rose from the dead. On the first day of the week, he was "already" risen. Past tense.

He did not rise on the first day of the week, for he was already risen. At the end of the seventh day of unleavened bread = unrisen. Once it was fulfilled , the total three nights and three days, he rose from the dead.

Bless

 

[tim-from-pa]

Then we are in agreement essentially by shifting just minutes literally. You are just having him put into the tomb very late the 14th and rise very late the 17th. I have no problem with this. However, the first day in that tomb is recognized by the feasts as Unleavened Bread the 15th. The first day of His new life is recognized by the feasts the 18th (Sunday actually) and not to be observed Saturday. That is basically what I am saying.

It's analogous to the Jew who won't put out his Sabbath candle late Saturday because he does not want to see the Sabbath end while another sees the first day of the week dawning, but it's still the same time since days ended/began at sunset time.

BTW, I follow the Karaite Jews observation and the ripening of the Aviv. This month Israel had the misfortune of the moon being a tad too close to the sun to see it the night of the 16th of March. But over here in the Eastern USA I could see it fine, once I knew where to look based on my astronomy program (so I had a little help)